Other than the 200/300tdi which diesel to use?

I'm acquiring stuff in anticipation of a Series/Disco I hybrid build. I have the Series IIA (bad motor, bad chassis, everything else okay) and I've recently acquired a complete '95 Disco I rolling chassis (no motor, but everything else - auto tranny). Now, I'm after a diesel. My ultimate goal is a "gentleman's" Series - 100 mph top speed to insure comfortable 75 mph cruise, power steering, a/c and good mileage (25-30 mpg at cruise - ergo the diesel). Offroading will be relatively mild compared to what some of you folks do. I'll be running around a West Texas ranch where a stock full-size 4x4 Chevy pickup can go most anywhere.

I welcome any suggestions/comments regarding what diesel to use. I don't want to use an LR 200/300 tdi because of their cost and comparative stateside rarity and because I believe there are suitable alternatives for less money. I initially thought I was going to go for an Isuzu 4bd1t or 4bd2t, preferably the former, and I may still do so but I wanted to see what others thought. Size matters(!) because one of my goals is to retain the classic Series look - I don't want to pooch the grill forward of its stock location relative to the front wings. Some Mercedes diesels have been touted as good and cheap, what about that?

I am thinking of staying with the auto tranny and transfer case that came with the Disco because (1) I understand it's strong enough, (2) I'll only have to come up with an adapter from whatever motor I wind up with to the transmission; downstream from there it will be all Disco, and (3) because of the cable shifter mechanism it will be relatively easy to put the shifter in a suitable location in the Series IIA cab.

What say you experts? What diesels are good candidates for this hybrid and why?

2.7 turbo inline 5 from a mercedes sprinter. You may have to use the auto transmission to. Great engine. Van gets 25 - 28 mpg going 65 on interstate (big box) and will go much faster.

http://www.moparmotor.com/mm5/graphi...SPRINTERLG.jpg

As the older vans come down in price you could probably pick up a van, pull the drive train out and sell what is left. this gives you the engine and transmission, wiring harnesses, computers etc.

hi,

have you started your build? I'd love a diesel LR, so if you have any pictures you could share, that'd be great.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by bfrieck

I'm acquiring stuff in anticipation of a Series/Disco I hybrid build. I have the Series IIA (bad motor, bad chassis, everything else okay) and I've recently acquired a complete '95 Disco I rolling chassis (no motor, but everything else - auto tranny). Now, I'm after a diesel. My ultimate goal is a "gentleman's" Series - 100 mph top speed to insure comfortable 75 mph cruise, power steering, a/c and good mileage (25-30 mpg at cruise - ergo the diesel). Offroading will be relatively mild compared to what some of you folks do. I'll be running around a West Texas ranch where a stock full-size 4x4 Chevy pickup can go most anywhere.

I welcome any suggestions/comments regarding what diesel to use. I don't want to use an LR 200/300 tdi because of their cost and comparative stateside rarity and because I believe there are suitable alternatives for less money. I initially thought I was going to go for an Isuzu 4bd1t or 4bd2t, preferably the former, and I may still do so but I wanted to see what others thought. Size matters(!) because one of my goals is to retain the classic Series look - I don't want to pooch the grill forward of its stock location relative to the front wings. Some Mercedes diesels have been touted as good and cheap, what about that?

I am thinking of staying with the auto tranny and transfer case that came with the Disco because (1) I understand it's strong enough, (2) I'll only have to come up with an adapter from whatever motor I wind up with to the transmission; downstream from there it will be all Disco, and (3) because of the cable shifter mechanism it will be relatively easy to put the shifter in a suitable location in the Series IIA cab.

What say you experts? What diesels are good candidates for this hybrid and why?

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I recently drove a auto defender off road and could not believe how nice it was. I have a few questions to add.

How does the length of the disco trans/transfer case compare to the series truck? If its longer things may get real tight with the merc 5 cylinder. What sort of revs will a stock D1 motor turn at 100mph? It may be out of the usable range of some of the diesels but I'm not sure. I'll be real interested in what you find. There are more and more people interested in doing this sort of thing I feel (me included)

I know you are looking for other options than a 200 or 300 TDI but you can buy a used 2-300 tdi out of a Disco they are pretty common in the UK. And they actually are not to pricey you get one and have it overhauled once it is here and you do not need to have to have custom adapter plates or anything else parts are available for it and you keep it all LR. I am putting a 200 TDI out of a Disco into my Series 2A 109 SW.

I've had to take some time off from the hybrid build - for one thing, the stepdown converter in my Series III 24 v FFR (the 24 volt system is converted to 10 volts for the ignition) failed and my (former) mechanic friend "fixed" it by bypassing the converter - guess what, that move will explode the coil which results in an engine room fire so I've been distracted by that. Now, I'm back to collecting information for the build. As suggested, length is an issue and it's certainly attractive to stay with LR parts which argues in favor of the 200/300 tdi. I'll have to re-consider how much it would cost to source one from overseas.

I really like the idea of the Isuzu 4bd1t or 4bd2t but the problem here in the good ol' USA is that none of the Isuzu 5 spd manual trannies which have an od 5th were sold here. There are several different ones which were sold all over the rest of the world and would bolt right up but I'm intimidated by the prospect of sourcing one from overseas which turns out to be misrepresented/bad and I'm left with no effective means of recourse.

I'll take a look at the market for MB Sprinters - they are fast, big sail of a box and all - I was passed by one the other day on IH-10 in West Texas where the speed limit is 80 - he must have been going all of 85 or 90 - I did a double take when he went by!

You can't use the Rover slush box because the starter drop is on the wrong side of the bell housing for a Tdi, assuming you go that way. You'd have to troll the UK junk yards for a RRC or Disco 1 Tdi bellhousing as well as the torque converter (it's different than a V8) You'll also find you have fit problems using an auto box due to the overall length of the BH and trans, especially in a short wheel base. It will shove the engine really far forward. You really need the shorty R380 5 speed manual trans and BH (which is unobtanium, but reproduced by Ashcroft in the UK) but as you want an auto is probably not an option. Non Rover Diesels will present their own issues, but mainly it boils down to finding an adapter to the ZF trans, using another gearbox and transfer case altogether. It may be easiest just admitting defeat and installing a Tdi. They aren't all that hard to come by.
You will find that the Disco chassis is very very different from the series. You will have to work out the issue with the rear swoop in the chassis vis a vis the rear crossmember and tub supports. Do-able, but it is probably simpler to attach the coiler suspension bits to the Series chassis than to attach the series body to the (altered) coiler chassis. Just my .02.

Robert Davis has perfected his drop-in kit for series trucks that uses the venerable Mercedes Benz OM617 5 cylinder 3L turbo diesel. These are as common as dirt and very cheap to obtain. His kit is super clean and you can even have AC if you want. If you are looking for a quick and easy way to get power + fuel economy, this is probably going to be the best option on a dollars spent basis.

One other thought...
The turbo diesel will get you the HP, but then you still have the relatively low output gear ratio in the diffs. Are you going to use the D1 axles? If you do then you also get into changing the steering. The Series steering won't play with the coil axles. You could go with a 100% aftermarket steering as the spline count on the D1 steering box is 3/4-48, exactly the same as VW beetles. There is an entire world of aftermarket bug steering schmidt, so if you want billet steering with custom wheels and all that crap it's an easy thing. My solution is to remove the steering shaft tube from the Series box and graft a 4 foot 3/4-48 shaft to the Rover shaft so I keep the taper for the 2A wheel. The lower end of the steering tube gets a simple thrust bearing and an adapter plate to fix it to the bulkhead and bulkhead support bracket.

Look into an Isuzu diesel. I believe there are already adaptors available for them.
If it were my truck though, I'd be working to put in the latest GM V8 in it.

I'm back to thinking about my Series IIa hybrid build. I've sold the Isuzu 4bd2t I bought for this project - I was surprised at how easy it was to sell - wish I had asked more for it but I got my money back so I can't be too unhappy. Anyway, I'm pretty sold on swapping in the Mercedes 5 cylinder (OM617, I think). It will fit and, according to Robert Davis, it won't overpower my Series drivetrain. He makes a kit which includes all the necessary adapters and other bits which are represented to make the swap a weekend project. Maybe for him! Now to find a good motor - they seem to be relatively plentiful but not as cheap/easy to rebuild as the venerable Isuzu with its wet liners. Interestingly, a whole running W123 Mercedes ('77-'85) can be had for not much more than a used motor so I think I'll go that route and see if I can get the difference back by parting out the engineless car when the time comes. I'm probably not as sure about all this as I sound so I welcome any comments.

Buy the first one you find and do it!!!!! Well maybe shop around a bit but go for it. I have seen the conversion done by Robert and if my motor goes south I will be doing the same thing.

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Originally Posted by ArlowCT

Buy the first one you find and do it!!!!! Well maybe shop around a bit but go for it. I have seen the conversion done by Robert and if my motor goes south I will be doing the same thing.

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I am the wrong person to suggest that I buy the first one and do it - that's what I've done in the past to my chagrin. I'm too optimistic for that. Anyway, I like the OM617 and Robert Davis' kit (and Robert himself) get universally good reviews so that's reassuring if the kit is maybe a bit pricey. The beauty of RD's kit is that it fits in the Series engine bay (a Series III radiator is required but that's all, I believe). Also, the OM617's are simple - no electronics - and reported to be quite long-lived if maintained. I haven't heard anything about how hard/expensive they are to rebuild so that's a possible problem. The OM606's which came later are 6 cylinders and therefore too long. I'm intrigued by the 5 cylinder that comes in a Sprinter and whether it might be a fit - assuming it will fit I'm not sure why it would be better except it's newer - however, it may be computer controlled which, IMHO, is not necessarily an advantage.

Isuzu 4bd1t with a dodge NV4500 5-speed behind it, and advanced adapters plate to mate to the original LR transfer case. This is what I am doing in my '73 109 5-door, along with Disco axles. She will be up at the British Invasion in VT next weekend.

Dave

Definitely go with with the om617. You will see when searching for one that many have well over 300k without a rebuild. They are as bulletproof as they come.

When it comes to rebuilding your donor, mainly you just need to address all of the accessories that run off the surpentine belt (bearings will wear out over time), the injection pump and anything rubber. I wouldn't worry about the internals unless something is majorly wrong.

I am going a similair route. I have a good chassis but bad body rover 88. I have a collected the necessary body panels to put together a 130 cab. I am still trying to decide on the chassis. I would love to talk to some one who has successfully used a RRC or Disco chassis. I am trying to avoid any body lift to make this work.

for the engine i have a VW ALH at home and would love to use that with a Toy tranny