Swivel balls (not a personal problem)

[lumpydog]

Slowmo. Great! I have a pitted ball - not leaking... yet. I'm interested in hearing about your experience. I know others have done this, but I'd love to follow your repair given today's parts suppliers. What you purchase - where you get it, any sticking points. Hoping you will share here or can PM me!

[MJL]

Does anyone use the Nicrotec swivel grease packs in their Series vehicles. I see it advertised for RR Classics and Defenders.

Mike

[jac04]

Thanks for all the tips. I am a do it once, do it right, kind of shade tree mechanic and I like to know my car(truck). I will do the complete tear down so I can see how it all fits together. That way if out in the boonies and something goes wrong I'll have an idea what to do. Then I may do the Terri quick fix method in later iterations or for quick/emergency repairs.

If you do it right, then you should not need need to do any "quick fix" for a loooooong time. Read Ike's (leafsprung) advice several times and follow it, especially the parts about the use of sealants.

[TeriAnn]

Been driving a series daily for 18 years. Currently a 49. Its not as dramatic as you make it sound. Leak free swivels will not make your car reliable. Here are some helpful pointers

-use genuine parts
-if your swivels are pitted they will wear the seal out quickly or simply not seal
-put sealant in the groove in the swivel housing into which the swivel seal fits to prevent oil from weeping around the outside of the seal
-put thick grease (like sig 3000) in the swivel seal lip
-use your favorite thread sealant on all bolts that pass through the swivel housing (seal retainer bolts, swivel pin/bearing bolts etc)
-replace copper crush washer on the swivel pin drain
-use a smear of sealant on swivel pin bearing cap
-adjust your steering stops so that the waist of the swivel ball does not deform the seal lip at full lock

I second every step mentioned in this post. But the key is not to have pitted swivel balls. If yours are, you should replace them or repair them. It is usually cheaper to purchase new ones than to do a proper repair which consists of welding on new metal filing it down to get the exact stock curvature and having the swivel balls hard chromed.

The common low ball cure is to clean the swivel balls very well, add JB weld and sand the dried goo down to the stock curvature. I have never seen it done but some people swear that it works OK.

About using a LR for a daily driver. I have 2 vehicles I use as daily drivers. Depending upon the weather, my mood and if I plan to bring the dog (Irish Wolfhound) along I either take my Land Rover or my TR3. Key to LR is taking care of parts that suffer from neglected maintenance then to follow the factory recommended maintenance schedule in the owners manual.

For the past 28 years I have had just the LR and TR3 as my only daily drivers. Though the TR3 was offline for a couple years in the late 1980's while I rebuilt her and the LR was offline for a couple of months in 1999 when she received a new engine, gearbox and power steering.

One recommendation, when one axle breaks I suggest that you replace them both because the other is likely near the end of its life cycle as well.

The 10 spline rear axles tend to break at around 45,000 miles. The first two axles broke within 5,000 of my purchasing the vehicle 38 years ago. The axles I installed new seemed to break between 40,000 and 50,000. When the seventh rear axle broke I replaced the entire rear assembly with a Salisbury.

Keep replacing the out of spec parts as you find them and follow the factory maintenance schedule and the vehicle will become dependable.

[TeriAnn]

I understand why Terri, recomends splitting the seal. I get it. But why is that not a good idea?

Bluntly, it is a half ass repair.

Actually the split seal repair method was not my idea. This method was passed down to me by my late land Rover mentor James "Scotty" Howett.

Scotty grew up in the 1930s and early 1940s and went through the traditional UK automotive mechanic apprenticeship programme. After WWII he and his bride immigrated to the US where he started Scotty's foreign auto repair shop which was a British car repair shop. Sometime in the early 1960s Scotty's shop became an authorized Land Rover warranty repair shop. He showed me the authorization document once but I just do not remember the year it was dated.

When Scotty was teaching me this seal replacement method he mentioned that the factory warranty repair book didn't allow enough time for a proper seal replacement so he lost a little money each time his shop replaced a swivel seal under warranty.

Scotty said this repair worked because only the area of thinnest cut you can make in the seal is compromised and the cut area is placed at the top. The rest of the seal remains as stock. The oil inside the swivel sits in the bottom half of the swivel well away from the cut. The only oil that reaches the cut area is splash when the front axles are turning. If you have freewheel hubs oil does not splash up there unless the hubs are locked and the vehicle is in motion. The RTV between the halves of the cut handles the oil splash of a vehicle moving with locked hubs. And an important part of all the swivel seal replacement methods is not to over tighten the bolts holding on the steel seal retaining cover. Over tightening the cover will distort the seal and cause it to leak.

The method has worked for me over the decades. and of course it is a personal decision as to how you replace the seal. I'm just passing along one of the little tricks that my LR mentor had passed on to me.

[jac04]

Scotty said this repair worked because only the area of thinnest cut you can make in the seal is compromised and the cut area is placed at the top. The rest of the seal remains as stock.

The strength of the seal comes from the outer metal case. As soon as you split it, it compromises the entire seal. As you install the seal and it pushes the rubber lip against the swivel ball, the split steel case will flex and you will not get the seal contact pressure you want.

[TeriAnn]

The strength of the seal comes from the outer metal case. As soon as you split it, it compromises the entire seal. As you install the seal and it pushes the rubber lip against the swivel ball, the split steel case will flex and you will not get the seal contact pressure you want.

If you say so, but the method has worked for me for over 35 years now. There is no sign that the metal case wants to move as you turn the wheel. maybe it is the steel ring that holds everything in place.

This is just a solution I pass along that works fine long term if done correctly. Everyone is free to choose their own method of replacing the seal and I do not advocate one way over the other.

[slowmo]

Thanks for the easier fix, TeriAnn! For my first go through on the swivel balls I'll do the complete tear down because I want to know how it all works, but when I need to do it again why not the easy way!

Now that I've actually been driving the Rover I have a couple of observations. Number 1: I'm 6'3" tall and if I sit up straight I am looking at the headliner, so I have to kind of slouch to see out the windshield. I can live with that because no way I am going on a long drive in the Rover because of Number 2: Going uphill it is so slow (I don't know how slow because of the InOp slowdometer) that I am in third gear at max RPM and the line of cars behind me is honking like mad. I mean I am going cement truck slow up the hill. I would install a Roverdrive, but I have a Koenig winch already using the PTO. I guess I have a choice to make there. Number 3: Everytime I drive the damn thing I am smiling.

My 59 TR3 is completely reliable. Of course that is after a lot of bloody knuckles. I no delusions of reliability with the Rover yet, for it seems that everytime I drive it something else makes itself important. The swivel balls leaking is a reliability issue to me because a leak will be a problem, but in the case of a Series Rover I realize some leaks are designed into the truck (like the shims on the speedo housing - no way that won't leak). I like to tackle issues before something is broken.

On the swivel ball issue...the steering and suspension seems very solid. No rattling, it drives straight down the road. This makes me think that the bearings, etc in the swivel ball assembly are good to go and that I am just in it for seals. Sound about right?

Thanks.

[jac04]

If you say so ...

I'm just letting people know the way things really work, but I hate to ruin the discussion with facts.

[TeriAnn]

Now that I've actually been driving the Rover I have a couple of observations. Number 1: I'm 6'3" tall and if I sit up straight I am looking at the headliner, so I have to kind of slouch to see out the windshield.

There is not a whole lot you can do with an 88 unless you can figure out fitting a Defender windscreen and roof to your 88. The Defender windscreen is taller. With the 109 two door the behind the seat bulkhead is farther back so you can remove the back seat brackets and get the seat to recline more. makes a big difference.

that I am in third gear at max RPM and the line of cars behind me is honking like mad.

That's where an overdrive comes in. Third over is your friend. It is a gear about midway between third and fourth and is really handy when the engine cannot push fourth but has plenty of power for third. You can always sell the Koenig and buy an electric winch. By the way have you done a compression test and verified that both the vacuum and mechanical advances work? Another thing to do is have someone push the accelerator pedal to the floor and look to see if the linkage opens the carb all the way. Also, you are at altitude. Have a shop put a CO2 sniffer into your tail pipe to verify your air fuel mixture.

Could be your engine is not putting out the power it should. Or it could just be altitude.

Number 3: Everytime I drive the damn thing I am smiling.

Me too and I have been driving the silly thing for 38 years now.

My 59 TR3 is completely reliable.

Mine too