Springs Springs Springs

[TeriAnn]

I too am baffled by all the contradictory information out there among all the experts (real and self-proclaimed).

I don't think I've ever called myself an expert about most anything, but I do tend to be opinionated and I write a lot.

How many people have hailed paras as the best thing that ever happened to a Land Rover while just as many people call them (at best) a waste of money that will break, sag, and plague the owner with hazards including (but not limited to) death by roll-over.

I've always liked good condition stock springs chosen for a specific vehicle weight and built up with individual sheets of ultra high density plastic sheets between each leaf. This plastic was designed for industrial use where there is heavy metal against metal sliding. I' have had a set of springs built up with the plastic for over 10 years of use and the plastic is still in very good condition. Basically what the plastic does is virtually eliminate leaf to leaf sliding friction. This makes for a much softer ride than what unmodified springs offer.

I agree stock springs don't move as well as they should because of the sliding friction and it only gets worse over time as dirt & rust increases the friction. I'm personally not a fan of stock unmodified springs.

But I haven't been a fan of parabolic springs either. I think much of that may have been to my introduction to them. Ray Woods showed me an 88 with a very early preproduction set of parabolic springs that were being developed for Rocky mountain. That vehicle had a LOT of side sway. As I remember 3 or4 Xs that of a stock sprung LR. That introduction always stuck in my mind even though there was a lot more development, testing and modifications to the design done before the springs went into production. If you look at the design, a couple leaves spaced apart will have inherently less resistance to side twisting than a bunch of leaves in solid contact with one another.

I have recently checked out a rig that is similar to mine that has parabolics underneath and learned that real production parabolics do have a lot more resistance to side sway than the early prototype springs I had tested. So I am reevaluating my conclusions. That other vehicle only seemed to have slightly less resistance to side sway as mine with stock springs and plastic sheets.

While I still feel that the best solution is properly chosen stock springs WITH sheets of plastic between the leaves, I am no longer as against parabolics as I have been. In retrospect I should not have based my opinions on early prototype springs without revisiting later production springs.

[KingSlug]

Teri Ann,

How hard is it to take apart the springs? Any tips on how? I just got a new set of springs from George at RDS, it should be a good time to do them.

Jared

[TeriAnn]

How hard is it to take apart the springs? Any tips on how? I just got a new set of springs from George at RDS, it should be a good time to do them.

There are different manufacturers of springs that build springs to the same performance & fit specs but use different construction methods. So I can not tell you how yours come apart. You may have to grind a big rivet off.

There are things called spring bolts that bolt leaves together into a single stack. The head of the spring bolt is the axle perch locating pin. First you need to locate a source for those bolts. Sorry its been a bunch of years since I got mine so I'm no help there. With bolts it is a screw on assembly.

Today I took a ride in a Dormobile with parabolics, both on road and in the back six acres of my yard. Other than being just a little softer on corners, the ride on the Dormobile with parabolics was virtually the same, both on pavement and off pavement, as the ride in my Dormobile with leaf springs that have very low friction plastic sheets between the leaves. They both bounced about the same & handled bumps about the same. I had thought the parabolics would produce a smoother ride. Also available is a 109 Park Ranger (camper conversion) with brand new stock leaf springs. The one with the unmodified brand new leaf springs rides a lot rougher than either of the two Dormobiles. And my leaf springs are about 10 years old.

[alaskajosh]

That's an interesting comparison/report, TeriAnn. Thank you.

Now what's-his-name over at what's-it-called in Olympia, WA (parts sales, restorations) says factory springs are crap (he doesn't like paras either). Something about new factory springs being made out of bad ChiCom steel maybe...? He sells his own and has a dog in the fight so to speak.

I like your plastic trick and I'd consider it seriously except now I'm a little gun-shy of factory springs too.. that coupled with the extra plastic installation time, expense, monkey business..
What should stop me from just going with some reputable paras and being done with it?
In what situations might they let me down or regret using them?

Are RM paras clearly at the top of the heap or are there others that should be considered?

Thanks all-

[scott]

...have yet to see any sort of scientific comparison of parabolic sping stability and original stability. I bet there have been many a rolled over Land Rover that had original style springs.....
Jason T.

eee gads! these things roll over?

[JimCT]

Usually they just get tired and lay over on their side for a bit....

[TedW]

I bought them a few years ago from Les at our hosts - with Old Man Emus. I heard the stories about body roll but see absolutely NO difference between the parabolics and the stock springs. Les credits the OME shocks for that. In any case, I'm down with Gunny on this one - much better ride than before. I think the ride is terrific now. Also more blood in my urine anymore.

[TeriAnn]

Now what's-his-name over at what's-it-called in Olympia, WA (parts sales, restorations) says factory springs are crap (he doesn't like paras either). Something about new factory springs being made out of bad ChiCom steel maybe...? He sells his own and has a dog in the fight so to speak.

Ah, He who must not be named but who reads this board and has been known to follow the reading up with phone calls and threats of law suits.

He who must not be named is very knowledgeable and is generally worth listening to when he speaks about technical stuff and originality. If he claims there are springs manufactured with bad steel coming out of the LR's supplier's factory I have no reason to doubt him.

I like your plastic trick and I'd consider it seriously except now I'm a little gun-shy of factory springs too.. that coupled with the extra plastic installation time, expense, monkey business..

Well you know, if you get enough monkeys and springs together one is bound to disassemble a spring pack, add the sheets of plastic and correctly reassemble them. You would just have a very large banana bill and a horrendous cleanup job afterwards.

There are different companies that make springs to Land Rover factory specs. The trick is to find out which factory is supplying the bad steel to Land Rover and which are not. If the springs are not meeting LR's specifications I suspect the problem will be corrected by Land Rover. If it is an aftermarket supplier the problem might not get corrected.

What should stop me from just going with some reputable paras and being done with it?

Nothing that I know of. Its your decision, your vehicle, your money.

In what situations might they let me down or regret using them?

While I have a strong tendency to be opinionated, I have never owned a set of Parabolics and can not answer that with any authority. My best guess is they might put you over the edge in situations where the dynamic centre of balance ventures out to the edge of your wheelbase. But that is a marginal guess. Also you may encounter increased wheel hop when climbing steep hills and your traction breaks if you do not have shocks matched to the springs.

Remember until very recently I based all my opinions about Parabolics from a single experience with early preproduction springs. That could be why one manufacturer has been trying to set me up with a set for several years. It has only been VERY recently that I've had an opportunity to test differently sprung Dormobiles side by side.

Are RM paras clearly at the top of the heap or are there others that should be considered?

Well, Ray is a good guy who does due diligence with his spring research and testing. But so is Paul and Paul started out earlier from the stock Santana design. I would image both companies make a very good well researched and tested product. I have no basis to voice any opinion on the parabolics manufactured by British Steel. I suggest researching each company and product as best you can. And don't forget whichever company you choose, be sure to use the shock that they recommend for their springs.

http://www.heystee-automotive.com

http://www.parabolicsprings.com

Some quick searching on British steel:
"Corus was formed on 6th October 1999 through the merger of British Steel and Koninklijke Hoogovens. On April 2 2007, Corus became a subsidiary of Tata Steel." If memory serves, Tata steel is a sister company of Tata Motors, one of the companies considering the purchase of Land Rover. I don't know if they still are but British Steel was/is an OEM spring supplier to Land Rover.

[sven]

Here's a site that supposedlty provides unbiased comparison between different parabolic springs: http://www.parabolicspring.com/ I found it on accident.

[jp-]

My take on it is this: Parabolic springs do for the unladen ride what stock springs do for the laden ride.

Since I drive mostly unloaded (unladen) except for the odd long camping trip, I prefer the parabolics. With the vehicles loaded, the stock springs and parabolics ride about the same.

My 88" has British Spring parabolics and the 109" has RM ones.