Who are your favorite LR vendors?

[alaskajosh]

Who are your favorite LR parts and accessory vendors and why?

Rate them in the categories of
-Product knowlege
-Tech knowlege
-Friendly service
-Selection/depth of inventory
-Ease of shopping (internet, catalog)
-Price

I'm asking because I'm getting into a big project and am pretty new to the series scene. I would like to establish vendor relationships and avoid pitfalls that others may have experienced.

Myself, I am willing to pay more if I really feel like I'm getting more. And I am loyal to good/friendly/personal/knowlegable service. But paying more for snobbery turns me off big time.

This is, of course, in a spirit of respect to our hosts here at RN.. but I bet they'd be as/more interested in the feedback as anyone.

[Roverowner]

I really like DAP because of an experience I had with my 92 RR. See, I had a LF CV joint go on me and I called around to get a replacement. Seems straightforward enough. The problem was that at some time in the past a previous owner had replaced the entire front axle assembly with an earlier one. After a couple calls to the big parts houses, I was really frustrated. Every call started out with, "So, what is the vehicle doing? Are you sure it's the CV? How do you know? Could it be something else?" Blah, blah, blah. I'm not calling for help with a diagnosis, I'm calling to get a replacement part. Well, we get into the part ordering part of the call, and I've got the guy on the phone telling me that what I'm looking at in my hand (the actual CV joint) was not the correct part. They said they would send me a CV joint for a 92RR, but it was obvious that that was not the part I needed. I called DAP and the guy on the phone, while confused a bit at first, actually worked with me to figure out what I needed. He concluded that at some point in the past the axle assembly had been changed and told me how to figure out what year CV I needed. I placed the order, received it the next day, and installed it without issue. The kicker is that the price was lower than the two other places that I had called first. I'm now loyal to DAP. I still order from pretty much everyone, but DAP always gets the first look.

[scott]

rovers north...i'm hoping my vote move's 'em to comp me couple of drive line boots...but i've enjoyed doing business with 'em, there web site is one of the more user friendly and they host this board which has put me in touch with some good folks with great tips on dignostics an repairs.

[TeriAnn]

First I need to say that British Pacific is one of my clients. I run an independent company that specializes in web site design and search engine optimization. I designed, built and maintain BP'sweb site. BP sponsored my Land Rover (free parts & sometimes gas money) in 1998 and since then have kept me in tyres as the price for the advertising on the side of my Land rover.

I lost full sponsorship in 1999 when I had a Ford 302, T-18 gearbox and Scout II power steering installed. I'll try not to be biased in this reply. These are my own comments based upon my own experiences and feelings and are not those of any company I may have a relationship with.

First the specialty folks:

Great Basin Rovers is my first choice for things like new propshafts, differentials and poly bushings. Great Basin provides very good strong 24 and larger spline hardened axles and drive flanges.

My Land Rover has Great Basin hardened 24 spline Salisbury rear axles & drive flange, custom Great Basin front propshaft with long slip joint, high angle yolks and smaller diameter tubing for additional clearance at the under bulkhead cross member. I also use Great Basin's greasable poly bushings. Polybushings do not stand up well to heat and the assembly lube is soon gone. Spend much time on wash board surfaces and poly bushings start falling apart quickly. Great Basin sells a kit that includes a bolt drilled out in the centre & grease fitting on the head and bushings with grooves to hold grease. Keep the bushings greased and the friction down for longer life and to eliminate that dry polybush squeak. Great Basin supplied me with my front differential, set up and ready to install. I have an early Range Rover carrier, Trutrac 24 spline diff, and 4.75:1 R&P (much stronger than the Rover 4.7:1 R&P)

SeriesTrek is relatively new on the scene and seems like a first rate supplier of Series axles, Toyota locking diff conversions and Mercedes diesel adapters. If you are building a Series Land Rover for serious expedition traveling or off roading Series Trek is worth looking into.

My Land Rover has Seriestrek 24 spline front axles.

Rovers Down South carries a wide selection of Genuine Land Rover stuff at very good prices. They don't carry everything and I don't think of them as a primary supplier. But what they do have is Genuine Land Rover and their prices are good. I personally have not bought many things from them because of distance and lack of mind share. I just think of my 2 primary suppliers first.

Wise owl/Rock mountain were once a single company. Wise owl is where I tend to go for used parts. Rocky mountain sells interesting stuff that they have had fabricated. Their aluminum double sliding front door tops are very good, and the Roverdrive overdrive seems to be the strongest available.

I don't use parabolic springs but I understand that the top brands are Rocky Mountain and Hystee Automotive Components http://www.heystee-automotive.com

My Land Rover has Torral Industries front Disc brakes sold by Rocky Mountain. I like them a lot. But I think Timm Cooper's disc brake conversion is one step better but costs twice as much to purchase by the time you finish the conversion. The Torral conversion uses common GM off the shelf consumable components and Timm's conversion uses Defender off the shelf brake consumables.

I don't have enough experience with the other specialty suppliers to comment. But I can comment on the US "big three", Atlantic British, British Pacific and Rovers North.

Atlantic British was my first parts supplier back in the mid 1970's. Their prices were high and I got a lot of aftermarket stuff that sometimes didn't fit quite right and a lot of time didn't last long on a working Land Rover. I don't think I've ever quite forgiven them for those years. So I am emotionally biased here. These days they seem to sell a fair amount of Bearmarch products. I've personally never had much luck with Bearmarch stuff holding up in my vehicles. AB seems to be a lot more interested in coilers than Series rigs and have been branching out to other automotive brands. Last time I looked their sales folks were on commission. The last few I talked to on the phone didn't seem very knowledgeable about Series Land Rovers. Personally I've lost faith in them as a serious Series LR supplier over a decade ago and no longer consider them when looking for Series parts.

British Pacific of course is a company I have close economic ties to and the one I know the best. They are located about 500 miles South of me so are my local supplier. The folks at British Pacific have all been selling Land Rover parts for a bunch of years and are quite knowledgeable. The web site is set up so that all on line orders get reviewed by a sales person and they get back to you if they suspect you may have made an error in your order. They work to minimize wrong parts being ordered to try to keep the customer happy and to minimize their own return & restocking costs. British Pacific has close ties to Allmakes in the UK who has a close high volume relationship to Land Rover. British Pacific carries or can order any part that Land Rover sells for any US spec Land Rover vehicle. So they are a good source for genuine parts. They also carry OEM and aftermarket parts (mostly Allmakes).

The niche British Pacific tries to occupy is the low cost, high quality parts supplier for Genuine, OEM and aftermarket parts. They carry parts for all US spec Land Rover & Range Rover models from 1958 through 2007

Rovers North is my backup supplier. I'm on the West coast & they are on the East and ground UPS takes about a week to get to me. I think they are a good group of very knowledgeable people. They have the image of being both knowledgeable and enthusiasts who both participate in and support local Land Rover events. The person who does their newsletter, catalogues and web site is very good at his job. All good guys in my book.

They tend to have a greater depth of stock in the slow moving parts (things you sell 1 or 5 of a year) than BP does. So when Land Rover discontinues a slow moving part, RN will usually have one on the shelf longer than BP will. Rovers North is an easy company to like but I often find their prices to be a little on the high side and I tend to wonder who manufactures their proline stuff. (There is a lot of cheap pattern stuff out there) I personally would like to see them a little more upfront about their aftermarket parts supplier identities.

I think RN carries parts only for Series II through US spec Defenders, Disco I & Range Rover Classics. And of course they emphasize the fact they they are an authorized Land Rover parts supplier. I think that is a mostly marketing emphasis since BP & RN both have access to the exact same genuine parts for the models that both companies support. I don't have any feeling about AB's access to genuine parts.

AB, BP & RN all keep a close tab on each other's prices and try to come close or undercut each other when their price structure allows it. That said I strongly suggest comparing prices and asking the brand when shopping around for a bunch of stuff.

Bottom line for me:
#1 BP my local supplier
#2 RN my back up supplier located a continent away
#3 Rovers Down South, I keep forgetting they are there
#4 AB, I've generally given up on them for series stuff.

And the Specialty suppliers of stronger than stock components all seem quite good and worth your attention when Genuine Land Rover is just not good enough.

[LaneRover]

Though my reply is a bit superflous after Terri-Ann's very knowledgable reply I will give my 2¢ worth.

Since I go between San Diego and Maine I can relate to Terri's use of British Pacific as her 'local' supplier. When I am on the West Coast BP gets my first call. When I am in Maine Rovers North gets my first call. There have been times that I have ordered from RN when I am on the West Coast and vice versa. To me both places have quite friendly and knowledable staffs. I do wish that BP was still in Burbank as it would allow me to stop by on occasion.

I did order the Roverdrive from Wise Old Owl ( I think it was them) and found them to be very helpful and were very quick to remedy a problem with a bad part that had slipped through their system. Basically a nut didn't have the threading all the way through and they immediately sent me a new one to correct the problem.

I have heard good things about Rovers Down South but have only ordered from him once.

Brent

[Jim-ME]

I have do alot of business with Rovers North and have always found them to provide quality parts at a fair price. I was able to visit them last May and I was very impressed with the service I got and the friendliness of everyone I met. Another factor is that because I live in Maine I can my order next business day which I really like.

I have also do business with Trevor at RovahFarm. He carries a relatively small selection of parts compared to RN, AB or BP but they are high quality and the prices are great. He has never failed to have any of the parts on the website and I also get them next day. I go to Trevor first when I need something he carries.

I have made a few purchases from AB and BP but generally only if I can't get it from Trevor or RN. I have not had any thing to complain about with either company other that AB generally has a more limited supply of Series parts than RN and with BP I have to wait due to distance.

Rocky Mountain - I currently have RM springs, door tops and their replacement transfercase cover. They treated me very well and produce a very high quality product. Someday I will have a Roverdrive.

Pangolin 4X4 - Ike Goss's products are also fantastic. If he makes it, you won't be disappointed. He also has a variety of spare parts and does very nice repair and restoration work.

Singing Camel Land Rovers - Marc has been great to get previously owned parts from and if I'm looking NLA parts he is the first place I go.

I have also ordered a few parts from Rovers Down South. They generally have great prices on genuine parts. You have to call them but it's worth it.

Last but not least I've ordered small parts from both Land Rover Series LR parts and Land Rover Orphanage in England. It takes about 10 days to get them and even with shipping I generally save money.

[alaskajosh]

Well having placed, and now received, my first order from BP I can't exactly say my first impression is a stellar one.

The salesman who answered the phone seemed impatient and annoyed from the get-go. He couldn't be bothered to really listen to what I needed. Impatiently told me the kit had everything I would need (this was moments after he had impatiently told me that there wasn't a kit for this application at all).

I asked, "So it will have all the oil sea...?"

"Yeahyeah it's got everything. How do you want to pay for that?" (I'm exagerating only a little here).

I figured I would have to wait a week until the order arrived, see just what it did include and then place another order for everything that I needed that it didn't include. And that turned out to be the case.. it had very little of what I did need and plenty of what I didn't.

What I hadn't counted on was that the gaskets would be crumpled up and almost every one of them torn. And now matter how many times I total the cost of the individual parts in the kit I can't get it to add up to the total kit cost..??

His impatience, and to some degree lack of product knowlege, will cost me another week of waiting and another steep shipping bill to Alaska (the few things that need added would have easily fit in the original box and added only nominal weight).

Suddenly their slightly cheaper prices aren't. That and, as good as their website is (TeriAnn), it cannot compare to a hard copy catalog with prices for ease of shopping.

[TeriAnn]

Impatiently told me the kit had everything I would need (this was moments after he had impatiently told me that there wasn't a kit for this application at all).

What was the kit for?

I just bought a gearbox/transfercase gasket set 2 weeks ago and the sales person pointed out that the gasket kit did not include seals, so any seals I needed would have to be ordered separately.

How were the gaskets mangled? Every gasket kit I've seen out of BP came in a sealed pack with thick cardboard back side and in a box big enough for the gasket set to lay flat. How was yours shipped? I'm trying to better understand what you are saying.

Suddenly their slightly cheaper prices aren't. That and, as good as their website is (TeriAnn), it cannot compare to a hard copy catalog with prices for ease of shopping.

I agree it is nice to be able to thumb through a catalogue and dream about the goodies you might buy. I often go to sleep browsing the latest fashion catlogue in bed. I enjoy browsing the RN catalogue and I print out the BP series catalogue just so I can have a hard copy (all 86 pages.).

About paper catalogues. When you produce a paper catalogue with prices you assume the catalogue will be current for a certain time and during that time shipping costs from the UK and purchase prices are likely to increase. You make your best guess at the price late in the catalogue's life, add your standard markup then you sell it for that price as opposed to what it costs you to stock the item on the day the catalogue was assembled. Without paper catalogues BP can price parts based upon their actual current cost and not on a projection of what it will cost late in the catalogue life. BP can adjust prices with each shipment if their landed price changes by uploading a new MySQL databse file to the server. That means prices are based upon real time costs and not a best guess projection at a future cost that might happen late in the catalogue's life.

Printing a paper catalogue is VERY expensive. By making the decision not to print a paper catalogue, BP was able to lower their price margins because the overhead costs were lower. Its a business decision. BP decided that its customers would prefer lower prices to a paper catalogue.

When BMW bought Land Rover they started changing Land Rover's part number system over to the BMW system, so part numbers were changing daily. Before the number system changeover was completed Ford bought Land Rover and part numbers started changing more. My guess is that RN switched to their own internal part number system as a way to have stable part numbers in their paper catalogues. Since BP doesn't have paper catalogues the numbers just get changed real time in the on line catalogues. This allows BP to stay with the Land Rover part number system.

But I do agree paper catalogues are more friendly, invite you to browse more and perhaps find additional things to purchase. I like them. But you gotta realize that you pay for the catalogue design, layout work, printing and distribution costs with each part you purchase.

Its all a compromise and a business decision based on a guess as to what the customers prefer. Paper catalogues do create a real overhead that has to be paid for. They can also help keep a company in the customer's mind as they browse through it over and over again. I don't know about you but I just can not pick up the RN catalogue and use it to order a part. I HAVE to browse through the eye candy pages of goodies before putting it down.

[alaskajosh]

TeriAnn: Good points on the catalog debate.. and I understand. Gosh I feel guilty though enjoying hours spent with RN's nice catalogue (I'll look at it while waiting at traffic lights for cryin' out loud) and then calling up BP to place an order. My conscience just about won't allow it.

The gaskets-- they are just the paper type, not black tar paper looking things or cork or anything. That said they were just thrown in with all the other bits and (I'm not kidding) many are torn almost in two. To BP's credit, this looks like Allmake's sloppy packaging job.
This kit was for swivel balls.

A guy at RN named "steve" was very friendly and helpful on some weather stripping and tie rod ends I ordered from them.

[TeriAnn]

TeriAnn: Good points on the catalog debate.. and I understand. Gosh I feel guilty though enjoying hours spent with RN's nice catalogue

I don't. I enjoy browsing their catalogue and others. And I agree their catalogue is very nice!

What I tend to feel guilty about is dwindling resources. As much as I like paper catalogues, I made a conscious decision to stop requesting them about 5 years ago since pretty much all the companies I might buy from had established an online catalogue. But I'm also funny about staying away from disposable when reusable can do the same job, minimizing trash generation and recycling. But when an unrequested catalogue comes in the mail I enjoy pouring through it as much as the next person.

The gaskets-- they are just the paper type, not black tar paper looking things or cork or anything. That said they were just thrown in with all the other bits and (I'm not kidding) many are torn almost in two. To BP's credit, this looks like Allmake's sloppy packaging job.
This kit was for swivel balls.

Was this the Railco bushing kit? I've been told that that kit comes with everything needed to renew the Railco bushings and yes that would come prepackaged from an Allmakes supplier. If you were asking about parts to rebuild an entire swivel assembly and not just the railco assembly it sounds like a miscommunication issue and that you may have caught the sales guy during an off moment.

Please let me know what kit it is & I'll pass the feedback to one of the Allmakes VPs. Allmakes is working on building an image in America as a supplier of high quality after market parts, but sometimes their packaging leaves a tad to be desired. I got an engine gasket set from them about a decade ago that included a neatly folded oil pan gasket and other gaskets just stuffed in and crumpled. I was very upset about having to iron paper gaskets before use. I think they give gaskets little thought but they are a highly visible item that can affect the perception of quality well beyond their monetary value.

A guy at RN named "steve" was very friendly and helpful on some weather stripping and tie rod ends I ordered from them.

I agree that I've always had a good experience talking to the Rovers North sales folks. Very well trained & very good phone manners. Over a couple decades I think I can remember getting bad information only once and always hung up thinking it was a good call.