SII 109 project

[TeriAnn]

Which picture was that? Ford v8s are not bad per se. However the SBC has the advantage in parts interchageability and aftermarket support. Which is why you see a lot of SBCs in ford hotrods . . .

I often times think it more a matter of if you were raised in a Ford household or a Chevy household.

In a Series rig Chevy has the advantages of being slightly shorter, the rams head exhaust manifold and rear sump. Ford has the advantage of a easily accessible distributor, slightly less weight and I think a 302 is slightly narrower.

Small block Fords have lots of parts interchangeability. For instance my engine is a 1970 Mustang long block with mid 1970's timing chain cover & front auxiliaries from an econoline van, a Bronco oil pan and 1991 Mustang fuel injection system that includes the manifolds & distributor. One of these days I plan to install a 351 cam. But yes there are less versions of the Chevy small block.

Speed parts? Most speed parts add power to the high end by stealing it from the low end. You need to look very carefully at the resulting idle to 3000 RPM curves before plunking down money on speed gear. But there are lots of after market parts for the 302.

I think the engine choice between small block V8s is mostly a personal preference and not a technical preference.

[leafsprung]

Speed parts? Most speed parts add power to the high end by stealing it from the low end.

Not speed parts per se, general aftermarket. SBC parts are very cheap and plentiful.

[yorker]

Close ratio? Yep. A T-18 has a 6.32:1 granny first gear, which using 4.7 R&P & C or later suffix transfercase provides a low range first gear ratio of close to 70:1. Stock for a Series IIA is 40.7:1. I find 40.7:1 to be too tall for much of the more technical off road driving I do. But 70:1 is much lower than I need and with V8 torque it is hard to keep the pedal still enough to apply steady power. For the kind of technical driving I do I've tended to prefer a gear around 55:1. I just never use low range first. What good is having a gear you almost never use?

The trucks these granny low four speeds were originally in were usually used as a 3 speed with an optional extra low gear. The shifter knobs were sometimes marked L-1-2-3-R which sort of reflects this philosophy. In practice you rarely used L but it was there if you needed it- three speed trannys were common on other vehicles at the time so it didn't seem so strange to use only 3 of the 4 gears in day to day use.

FWIW whenever someone who is used to one of these 4 speed transmissions uses one of my land rovers they always complain that the LR is too highly geared.... So like everything else I guess it depends what you are used to.

For most people like you say the close ratio is probably a far more practical choice. With the granny low 4 spds it might be nice to have a secondary OD to split them. Maybe the Ranger torque splitter or something like that vs. the Roverdrive or Fairey?

[greenmeanie]

First of all, thank you guys and gal for the information.
Secondly, please accept my apologies TeriAnn, I got a little fooled by the caps A in your name.

I am gradually building a spec for this vehicle.
For emissions reasons I am looking at a 67 or earlier vehicle and I think a pre 67 engine. Arizona seems to be getting more in line with California these days in regards to emissions. It also has to be a 109 Station Wagon as it is really to become a family vehicle.

Given its expedition orientated type build I think the close ratio box is the way to go. Does Tim Cooper have a web site or does he offer stock adapters for Rover transfer cases to US gearboxes? I want a rear Salisbury and may have a line on a front too.

As far as engines go I am an expat Scots so the only V8 I ever new in my house was an old mil spec low compression Rover 3.5L lump. That doesn’t bode well. I’m rather ambivalent about Ford vs Chevy although my driving factor is that the project I have found has a galvanized 1987 110 chassis with 200tdi mounts so I suppose cost and whatever fits with the minimum butchering and cost is the way I’ll go. I must be going native or something because the redneck in me has a desire for oodles of power and torque from a V8 as opposed to a diesel.

I found this (see pictures.) on line for $4500. It would make a fun project as the hard part of putting the series body on the 110 chassis has been done. It’s also already a hybrid so I wouldn’t have the usual heartache about modifying or restoring a leafer. It’s only issues as I see them are:
1. It’s not a leafer. Coils seem terribly modern but I suppose they are good and open up some options.
2. It has a SIII bulkhead. I really prefer the SIIA dash so I would have to sell this one (shouldn’t be that hard.) and obtain another. Ike, do you have any IIA bulkheads or do you only accept restoring cores supplied by the customer?
3. The rear cross member is made out of checker plate. It’s quite ugly but I suppose it is functional.
4. Am I right in saying that ditching those alloys and putting the original 16” steel rims on would bring the wheels back under the arches? I don't do flares on series rigs.







Upside down damn it.
I’d love some comments. I suppose I should move over to the hybrids if I get it. NCRover's truck would have a big brothre.

Cheers
Gregor

[leafsprung]

the hard part of putting the series body on the 110 chassis has been done

Thats the easy part really. Looks like a viable project. The early wheels will help but the coilsprung axles are significantly wider. Makes for a stable ride.

[greenmeanie]

My next question is what is the length of a series gearbox?

For some unexplainable reason right now I fancy keeping my red and yellow knobs so want the series transfer case. I also quite fancy the idea of the NV4500 with more gears. This is, of course subject to length restrictions.

I am also looking at comparing things like the NP435 with the Ranger box but again only subject to length.

The final product I am shooting for is along the lines of this beastie:
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Thompson109.html

From their web site it seems they manage to use the Defender axles with series steel wheels.

My wife's requirements so far are: comfortable seats (Taken care of) something less noisy than my 101 and most of all it MUST have aircon.

Cheers
Gregor

[yorker]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624371

There is another one for you to mull over. hehe...

Here are pics of the Np435 my friend Rick is using in his lightweight, I think the adapters Ike made were shorter? Ike is this one of yours or Cooper's?

Rick also has a T18 mated to a LT230 with an adapter that was made by Rovertracks a while back. I'm not sure what the length of that is but any of these should fit in a 109.

[yorker]

There is another NP435 to series trannsfer case adapter, a bit shorter than the one Rick is using too.

Mercedes Jim has the above build documented here:
http://seriestrek.com/109.html

Another build for you to check out

[greenmeanie]

Yorker,
You area veritable fount of projects!

So from what you are sending me I take it most people end up going the NP435 route. Have you found anyone using a NV4500 yet or is it too long/ too expensive?

Well so far I would be inthe hole for:
$4500 for the project
$1300 to ship it.
That's $5800 before starting. I'm in two minds but it would be a fun project. Does anyone know of saomeone wanting to swap a good/perfect IIA bulkhead for a newly galvanised SIII. I just couldn't face a plastic dash.

Cheers
Gregor

[TeriAnn]

Not speed parts per se, general aftermarket. SBC parts are very cheap and plentiful.

OK there are more companies in the market selling Chevy engine parts than Ford engine parts. But it is more like getting a choice of 2 dozen manufacturers instead of one and a half dozen manufacturers and prices are slightly more cut throat in the Chevy parts market. But parts for both types of engines are off the shelf in any North American auto parts store and about one tenth the price of the equivalent Land Rover engine part.

Every small town with a mechanic has someone experienced with the American small block engines, American small truck gearboxes and every auto parts has them on the shelf or in the warehouse for cheap.

Bottom line with both Chevy and Ford small blocks is that with a bit of bulkhead fabrication they fit a Series engine bay, if you don't get crazy with speed parts they have more power at idle than the 2.25L does at peak, with low compression heads (regular grade petrol) & a 500 cfm four barrel jetted properly they get the same fuel mileage as a 2.25l ( or at least mine did city & highway), if you learn EFI they can get better fuel mileage (about 2-3 MPG highway and as much as 5-6 MPG better city or on the trail), they weigh close to the same as the 2.25L petrol (with aluminum heads the Ford is nearly 50 pounds lighter), parts are plentiful, cheap and everything is a lot more robust.

But any conversion is only as good as the system approach used to design it and the skills of the fabricator.

Both Ford and Chevy work fine and it is mostly a matter of an individual's tastes and emotional prejudices. I was raised in a Ford household and I like the idea of a distributor in easy reach without removing the bonnet.

I just wish Americans had a choice of cheap small diesels in the 200hp @4000 RPM & 300 lbft @ 2300 RPM range that got 25 miles per US gallon or better in a Series rig. That runs on used french fry oil.