New Bulkheads - Time To Step Up To The Plate

[greenmeanie]

not to mention, most English repair methods on Rovers are less than satifactory.

Care to qualify your statement or is it more sweeping statements? Repairs to a Rover in the UK must still pass the standards set by the MOT. I know, I've been there and done that and the standard set for structural components is higher than most US states.

[Bertha]

Care to qualify your statement or is it more sweeping statements? Repairs to a Rover in the UK must still pass the standards set by the MOT. I know, I've been there and done that and the standard set for structural components is higher than most US states.

Check out one of the supposedly restored in UK Rovers from any of the people that are importing them and then formulate your own opinion.
BTW I know as well, I have been to England too.

[yorker]

Care to qualify your statement or is it more sweeping statements? Repairs to a Rover in the UK must still pass the standards set by the MOT. I know, I've been there and done that and the standard set for structural components is higher than most US states.

I think he is referring to the general standard of restoration for UK trucks vs US. A lot of people have bought trucks that passed MOT and were advertised as great shape but were not up to the standards one would expect from a truck sold in the USA with the same description.

It is a stereotype and it suffers from the same failings all stereotypes do. It probably gets more play than it should but there is a bit of truth to it.

caveat emptor applies to all trucks but particularly those you are buying sight unseen.

[Momo]

Originally Posted by Bertha

Unfortunately you have mis-interpreted what I have written-Go back and re-read what I wrote before getting hostile.

No, I haven't misinterpreted anything. You were downright insulting to a guy who wants to provide all of us a means to buy the one component missing from the Series parts market. You want to put him and his efforts down, I don't think it's called for and I'll tell you so. Devil's advocate is one thing, being rude about it is another.

I am simply stating that the market in the USA is limited for bulkheads due to the limited amount of LR's that exist here. You are kidding about people re-importing Rovers back to the UK-right?

Read again, I was talking about US produced bulkheads potentially having a market in the UK. Worldwide in fact.

[yorker]

This is getting ridiculous. If you think there is a market then set a price, and start taking preorders with $1000 down payment. That will separate the wheat from the chaff.


Everyone thinks stuff like this is a great idea until you start asking for $.

We could talk and talk and talk about it here and never have anything meaningful come from it.

[Eric W S]

If it was a financially viable thing to do , RN or one of the other suppliers would have invested in it already. Not enough demand and high investment cost will never see that get off the ground here in the USA.

Other suppliers like Craddocks who sell out every replacement bulkhead made even in the UK (which is subject to high taxation in the form of VAT)? One that isn't that great? How about Mr. Morris who has more work than he can actually handle? A couple of his bulkheads have made it here to the US. Check out Guns and rovers. How about the threads on the series2club.co.uk forum where members are trying to find a supplier, even one as far away as Taiwan or China? Or how about other threads on this forum looking for a supplier? How about a supplier like Pangolin4x4 who actually made CAD drawings in preparation for a production run?

The demand is there. And this thread and others from around the world are proof positive of the free market looking to fill that demand.

What are the investment costs? A brake. spot welder and steel is all Mr. Morris uses. He works from his house! So just what are these high investment costs? Hell if you search the series2club forum a guy in Thailand made a scrath built frame and bulkhead in his spare time.

What about the guys in Costa Rica that built a series from scratch? Bulkhead, all body parts, and tub. Their ebay auction comes up about every 3 months.

[greenmeanie]

I think he is referring to the general standard of restoration for UK trucks vs US. A lot of people have bought trucks that passed MOT and were advertised as great shape but were not up to the standards one would expect from a truck sold in the USA with the same description.

It is a stereotype and it suffers from the same failings all stereotypes do. It probably gets more play than it should but there is a bit of truth to it.

caveat emptor applies to all trucks but particularly those you are buying sight unseen.

A lot of the trucks sold like that are specifically put up for sale as export because they won't pass MOT. A truck can still havea V5 without an MOT.

I've seen a good few come over with tack welded scab patches on the chassis, holes in outriggers, fiberglassed footwells, blown engines etc all of which would result in MOT fail.

It is commonly known in the UK that Rovers have a mythical status in the US and people will pay for the 'look' as someone put it earlier. An internet description on ebay of a 'restoration' can mean that it got a wash before the photo. Most prospective US buyers will not pay the money to fly out and look over a truck so a seller can talk it up all he wants. It is extremely difficult to pursue someone legally over the Atlantic. As such there is a certain type of dealer that will cobble together crap to flog to you nice Americans with deep pockets and a wistful look in your eye. As you say Yorker, caveat emptor.

At least in the UK there is a minimum standard that has to be achieved because of the MOT whilst in many states in the US an emissions test is all that counts and not even that for many trucks. If anything I have no lower expectations of vehicles in the US. There is at least one gentleman who is notorious for pedalling junk over here. There are a lot of other people who honestly believe that Rovers don't rust and would like to charge you accordingly.

Bertha, I'm glad you have visited my country. Maybe if you had stayed long enough you could have visited Dunsfold, Gaydon or even one of the big shows and witnessed the standard of work put in to many of the UK trucks. I'm not talking a bit of quality welding here - I'm talking people who contacted the original designer to discuss the finer points of the design with those who originally concieved the vehicle before sourcing or repairing every correct part down to the last nut, bolt and washer.

You sadly have succumbed to one of the common myths about the UK LR movement. Yes there are plenty of rusted out beaters but that is because Landies are like F150's for the UK and not cherished toys like over here.

Get over it. You are right that the bulkheads would most likely not succeed as a commercial venture. That does not mean that there is not a place for someone to make themselves some money catering to those who do want new bulkheads. There are those who would say that Ike and Seriestrek should never succeed because anyone with fabbing skills could produce rock sliders and drivetrain conversions.

Just sayin that nobody has ever succeeded with a negative attitude.

Rant over.
Gregor

[Jim-ME]

OK since I started this I'm going to try to end it before there is more verbal bloodshed. To set the record straight I simply tried to find out what type of interest there is for new bulkheads amongst the members of this forum. Kind of like taking a poll before an election. I think the person that I hope has been following this has a better idea of potential bulkhead demand. He and only he will be making the call as to if it is worth his time and money to provide this product. I sincerely hope he does but only time will tell. My thanks to all that participated.
Jim

[junkyddog11]

It's a tough call to make.

We have the equipment, the talent, and the shops to handle the pressings on hand but would still need to sell 100 or more at $3500 ea to even start to see a return. Very limited market for that.

That makes rebuilding original bulkheads much more attractive from my veiwpoint.

[S11A]

I would have bought one but mine was in outstanding condition. I think $3,500 is pretty reasonable since it is the key piece of, well, I was going to say body work but it is almost more like a part of the frame in that all of the body panels start from there and it is fairly structural...

I haven't added up the cost of various bulkhead replacement panels that are available, and a person might need more than one of those if it is in bad shape. Add in the cost of a shop cutting out and replacing the bad bits (if you do not have the skill or time). Then there would probably be more body shop prep such as blasting and filling, depending on the level of finish you wanted. But I would guess a person could easily come close enough to the $3,500 mark that it would make a lot of sense to just buy a new one and have that peace of mind.

Would the $3,500 you mentioned include galvanizing and subsequent clean-up?

Another idea on this topic would be to see if RN, Pangolin, RDS, BP, Wise Owl, DAP, AB, and other suppliers would be willing to commit to purchasing a minimum quantity over the next 2 - 3 years, stocking these, or underwriting part of the setup cost. This would take some of the doubt out of the producer's mind as to potential market. I would think it would be feasible for most of these shops to commit to buying/stocking 10 each, for maybe a total of 50 of the 100 you said would be required. You could possibly get at least 10 - 20 pre-orders from individuals by hitting the message boards.

ECR's web site says that they are no longer doing mail-order bulkhead repairs, but might be willing to partner on this sort of venture (either to sub out this sort of work or else to manufacture new ones under license to ECR). Perhaps they would be willing to sell their bulkhead jigs and any tooling? In exchange for which they would get some concessions on selling these. Just an idea...

http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Bulkhead.html

Another thought is these guys (I know nothing about them other than what I have read on the Internet) - maybe they have some capability or tooling?

http://www.naturerovers.com/restorationprocess.html

Not sure, but are there differences between the various Series that would require significant tooling variations? There are going to be the people who as someone put it on another thread, will complain that the air cleaner is not exactly the right shade of black.

Just some of my thoughts.