Electrice Series?

[Tim Smith]

Yup. The genset in the back is a way to go and I kinda played around with that idea too. Part of the problem would be the loss of efficiency in the energy conversion process. So even though you'd be getting locomotion from an electric motor which is a very very efficient means of power, either creating more power or storing the power on board is the draw back.

I've heard it said (so take this with a grain of salt) that the battery pack in your average electric conversion only holds about as much energy as a gallon of petrol. You can figure that the average battery pack is in the neighborhood of 96 to 120 volts. Generally that would be around 10 12 volt batteries or 20 6 volt batteries. Think of that weight in everyday use! Litium batteries are an option but the cost gets a bit silly going that route.

Then for on board power generation you would have to add the complexity and cost of adding a generator to the mix. And we're not talking about a small home back up generator that is 5 - 10 kW either. Well now you're going to be looking at one heck of a lot stuff to figure out.

I was thinking that an old military generator mounted to a trailer would be a nice way of getting long distances. But still, how do you hook that into the mix to make sure you're charging all the batteries at the same rate while drawing power at variable rates.

In the end it's probably going to be very expensive and also probably wouldn't pass much savings back to the owner. Makes you start to realize why diesel electric locomotives are such wonders.

Yeah, I'm thinking bio-diesel is a little bit simpler.

[LaneRover]

Part of the problem would be the loss of efficiency in the energy conversion process. So even though you'd be getting locomotion from an electric motor which is a very very efficient means of power, either creating more power or storing the power on board is the draw back.

In any electric car there is going to be lots of efficiency drains. The fuel to run the generator(whether it is in a trailer or from the power company) the loss in storing to batteries even the loss of efficiency in powering the motor. I think that an electric vehicle only really works as a 'green solution' if you have solar panels or a wind mill making your power. Other than that it is not a good use of natural resources - not to mention the nasty stuff that goes into making the batteries.
Of course if I had solar panels it would be pretty darn cool to make an electric Rover to cruise around town in!

[superstator]

In any electric car there is going to be lots of efficiency drains. The fuel to run the generator(whether it is in a trailer or from the power company) the loss in storing to batteries even the loss of efficiency in powering the motor. I think that an electric vehicle only really works as a 'green solution' if you have solar panels or a wind mill making your power. Other than that it is not a good use of natural resources - not to mention the nasty stuff that goes into making the batteries.
Of course if I had solar panels it would be pretty darn cool to make an electric Rover to cruise around town in!

Most electric motors are about 90% efficient, and batteries are more like 99%. There have been plenty of studies to show that a pure electric is cleaner than an internal combustion powered vehicle, even when the electricity comes from something like a coal plant, simply because large scale electricity generation is so much more efficient than a small engine as to more than make up any losses in transmission and storage.

And of course if your vehicle is pure electric, you've decoupled it from the actual power source. As things like wind, solar, nuclear, etc. get added to the grid, your vehicle gets more efficient without you lifting a finger...

[LaneRover]

Most electric motors are about 90% efficient, and batteries are more like 99%. There have been plenty of studies to show that a pure electric is cleaner than an internal combustion powered vehicle, even when the electricity comes from something like a coal plant, simply because large scale electricity generation is so much more efficient than a small engine as to more than make up any losses in transmission and storage.

And of course if your vehicle is pure electric, you've decoupled it from the actual power source. As things like wind, solar, nuclear, etc. get added to the grid, your vehicle gets more efficient without you lifting a finger...

How expensive are those 99% efficient batteries? What about replacing batteries? What about too many people going for electric cars that place massive demands on the system?

You may have a point and electric vehicles may be the way to go - in the future - but if I can't drive from San Diego to LA or from Portland Maine to Boston because of the limited range then it is not very useful and is a rich persons toy to show they are being 'ecologically conscious' to the masses.

[superstator]

How expensive are those 99% efficient batteries? What about replacing batteries? What about too many people going for electric cars that place massive demands on the system?

Very expensive, and I may have imagined hearing about a battery that efficient anyway. El cheapo lead acids are more like 75-80%. For grid demand, the assumption has always been that people would charge at night when the grid is relatively quiet, but that leads right into the range issue: noone has yet figured out how to truely fast-charge an electric vehicle the same way you can a traditional car, and if they did, those new electric filling stations would put some serious hurt on the existing infrastructure. Which leaves you with no way to top off on the way to Boston.

You may have a point and electric vehicles may be the way to go - in the future - but if I can't drive from San Diego to LA or from Portland Maine to Boston because of the limited range then it is not very useful and is a rich persons toy to show they are being 'ecologically conscious' to the masses.

I totally agree. Doesn't stop it being a fun engineering exercise, though. Personally, I think something like algal biodiesel has a better chance of being a near-term alternative for a lot of people; it's essentially bottled solar energy, can be grown on marginal land with very high density, and works just like any other biodiesel. No magical heavy-metal batteries required.

[Tim Smith]

I'd have to agree with the comments above. Certainly there are pluses and minuses to switching to electric. Going electric couldn't really be a panacea, saving us from global warming but rather a fun engineering exercise.

And to say that going electric would be just a rich persons toy might be a stretch. Just look at some of the rolling junk that people are converting...
http://www.evalbum.com/

Although, these two aren't too crappy if you ask me.
http://www.evalbum.com/type/LAND

Cheers!

[adkrover]

I think you'd find that most people do their driving within the reasonable range for electric vehicles. I suppose there are exceptions if you are a salesman that travels a great deal or a postal worker that is driving all day but for the most part they would work for our daily vehicles. To say that if I can't drive from one major city to another non-stop means we shouldn't bother with electric vehicles is pretty stupid in my opinion. It reminds me of a guy I had on a job once that said because the windows in a house only have an R-value of about 2 that we shouldn't bother insulating the walls. That kind of thinking is just wrong. If we all had an electric vehicle to use for our daily driving within range and a full bank of solar and wind to help charge our vehicles, we would use only a fraction of the gas we use today. We could all still have our highway vehicles for longer trips and big trucks for pulling a load or gathering firewood but there is a real place for electric and hybrid vehicles.

I suppose I sound like some eco-terrorist but before you get all down on me, I do have a Prius that really does get 55 miles per gallon and is a joy to drive but I also have a Toyota 4 Runner for expeditions in the snow, a 3/4 ton Chevy with a snowplow and a deisel sucking John Deere tractor. All have very good uses when used properly. If I were going to drive cross country, I'd take the Prius but if I needed to pull the tractor to a jobsite I'd use the Chevy. I bet if we as a country would invest a bit more time into developing alternatives, we'd find that an electric truck will actually pull that tractor better and more efficiently. That's exactly why freight trains and large cruise ships are powered by diesel electric hybrids.

Maybe if the "big 3" go under, someone will buy up their plants and start making vehicles for the future. Unfortunately it will most likely not be an American company that does it. Remember that the internal combustion engine has changed very little since it's invention so long ago. Maybe it's time for an upgrade? A new way of thinking? Unfortunately, with attitudes like some of those expressed here, we may be doomed to buying crap vehicles that keep us hooked on oil like crack addicts.

[Eric W S]

It's already happening. Nissan, Toyota and Honda are all locked into producing the next greatest hybrid. Nissan announced last year that they will have an all electric sentra in 2011...

I bet in 10 years that the technology will out pace gas in sales.

Cars are only part of the problem. Electric plants produce more emmissions and you'd be surprised what your house does to the environment.

Just a matter of time.

EDIT: which is finally good for us and finally bad for oil producers. We'll get that money back soon enough...

[Tim Smith]

Cars are only part of the problem. Electric plants produce more emissions and you'd be surprised what your house does to the environment.

I've got to agree. Our electric infrastructure needs a lot of work before we can call it a green source of power.

I think home electric car conversions are great thing but they're certainly not going to save the world. Mind though, it wouldn't be a bad thing to try and just think of the extra beer money you'd have at the end of the week.

Lets also not forget that the story of the electric car is older than the story of the gasser. Go ahead and google it. It's pretty interesting stuff really.

[adkrover]

I'm not saying that electric cars will save the planet but it will go a long way toward keeping American dollars in America if we can develop the patents for them and produce them here. Instead of Detroit wasting so much time trying to build the hottest retro cars like the Hemi, Camaro and Mustang (all of which I personally like but think the rest of their products look like crap) they should be more focused on cars that are in fact practical and more efficient. BTW, some of the fastest supercar prototypes are electric.

I agree that electric doesn't equal green when it's produced in a coal or nuclear plant. We need to improve on hydro, wind, solar and who knows what else is out there that we haven't even figured out yet. I personally have solar panels and windmills on my house and they work great. I don't have enough to be completely free from other power sources but that's only because I haven't committed enough funds to it yet but it is practical and it does work. Europe is far ahead of the US on the road to energy independence. We just need to get together as a country and a culture to accept that we need to make a change. When I first installed my system, the electrician on the job kept scoffing at how much "real" electricity I could buy with the cost of the panels and batteries. I tried to convince him that wasn't the point but I don't think he got my drift.

There are also a lot of people I think have the issues confused. I'm in the Adirondacks and there's an owner of an abandoned strip mine who wants to turn it into a windfarm. The land is completely baren, stands on a great hill for wind and already has the large power transmission lines from the old mining days. The local environmentalists are opposed to it because it won't be asthetically pleasing in the natural scenery.

I'm sure someone will remind us soon that this is a forum about old trucks and not the environment but as gearheads, we all have to take some responsibilty for our fun and games.