Starter spinning but not engaging well

[4flattires]

This prior post seems appropriate:

She’s leaky and she’s squeaky
At speed she’s rather freaky
You’ll bust your knuckles weekly
It’s a Series Land Rover

Da Da Da Da click click (that’s the starter not starting)
Da Da Da Da click click (that’s the valves tapping)
Da Da Da Da
Da Da Da Da
Da Da Da Da click click (That’s the gears stripping)

Now....betcha hum that tune for at least an hour!

Jeff

[I Leak Oil]

If the starter is turning and not engaging the flywheel, it's either a bad solenoid or no teeth.

Or a bendix that is stuck as others have suggested. This is a very common issue with the lucas starter. At some point, nearly all of them do it.

[NickDawson]

Now....betcha hum that tune for at least an hour!

Jeff

Funny thing is, I was humming that all way home last night!

These trucks are tinker toys and you already understand more about mechanical things than you think. If it can be repaired in the bush, you can do it in suburbia. Just focus on that smile you get when you drive her away from the curb leaving mediocrity behind.

Great point - thanks for the encouragement!

Hopefully I'll get a chance this week to check out the starter and hopefully it will be an easy fix.
Not sure about the idle cut off and lack of heat though...one step at a time

[NickDawson]

Alright! I'm back at it... I spent most of March not thinking about the Rover (b/c I was busy skiing - seriously rough life I tell you).

Its going to be a nice weekend here and I've enlisted some help to tackle a few Rover projects including the starter. I took a crack at it a few weeks ago and discovered that I don't have a wrench or socket that fits the two bolts to get it out - anyone have a clue what size they are? I have pretty complete sets of each.

I'm a little confused about this idea of not having to take it all the way out. I suppose that will become clear once we get into it, but can anyone elaborate? Can I simply un-do the two bolts, pull it out part way and start cleaning? Is that the basic idea? If I do have to remove it completely it looks like it means removing the exhaust... I'm 99% sure if I do that, there will be many massive other problems that result from the rusty bolts involved.

Thanks all!
-N

quick edit to add - just found Mohan's thread here: http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/sh...t=starter+spin
Sounds like the plan of attack is pretty straight forward as described above. Regarding the suggestion of graphite - yes or no?
To echo the quote

this is why I didn't hesitate on buying this truck despite my limited mechanical experiance..simple vechicle and wealth of support!
Reply With Quote

- could not agree more!

[Rineheitzgabot]

I'm with Jeff.

The shaft/gear/spring assembly probably needs lubed.

I recently had a thread related to starters as well. You are probably correct, the exhaust may interfere with removing it all the way, but as someone suggested, just remove the two bolts that hold the starter, and pull it out as far as it goes. This will give you access to where all the areas that need lubed are.

It will be a 1/2" wrench/socket, needed to do this. One bolt is accessed from above, and one from below. These are studs that hold on the starter, not bolts, FYI. Once the drive gear and shaft are exposed, lube the hell out of it, and perhaps try scrubbing with a soft toothbrush if it is gummed up. Once lubed, spin the gear on the shaft until it moves freely. This really is not hard. You can do this yourself. After removing the nuts from the studs, the whole process should take no longer than 10 minutes. I excluded the nuts in the time, because there's no telling what shape they are in, and if you have long enough extensions, to make removing them expediant. Also, if it is like mine, you screw the nuts off most of the way, to a point where the nut binds up on the stud, then the studs start unscrewing, which just adds more time, but no big deal.

I am not an expert on lubricants, but I am not sure what happens when mixing a dry lubricant with a wet one (assuming that the drive gear already has residual oil on it). I would probably stick with wet lube. Just me.

Hope this helps.
Gary

[NickDawson]

Ok gang - we're in the thick of it. I've enlisted the help of my old man, combined we have a full 6 months of mechanical experience

So Im reminded again that this is a 2.5L engine (and also reminded of the suggestions about not buying a UK import...)

The starter is clearly aftermarket, and we were able to get the 10mm bolts off the studs no problem. Once we got the starter off, it was unclear what needed cleaning.

The armature sits in a sleeve of magnets, so we cleaned that sleeve out and cleaned the armature well. On the end of the armature is a small gear that turns 3 nested gears where the starter mates to the engine - we cleaned all of that well.

After reassembly when I turn the key, we get a loud, rapid clicking. If you put your hand on the starter, you can feel its doing something...but nothing is turning over, and there's no whrrrr sound at all.

Anyone have any ideas?

On a related note - if we wanted to - could we buy a replacement at an autoparts store? Enjoying the tinkering right now, but Monday is street cleaning and I dont want to get towed if we can't get it running.

[4flattires]

Let's start with a pic of your starter. Even if you have to grab a pic from the internet (should you not have a camera). That will help us formulate some solid next steps.

If you have a camera, please post detailed pics of whatever state the starter is in. Brushes, gears, thing-a-ma-jigs...etc.

...I dont want to get towed if we can't get it running.

Fear not. Push, pull, tug or tow to start. You don't need no stinkin' starter.

[NickDawson]

OK, we sang Mohan's song the whole time and it helped...kinda!
After re-fitting the starter a few times, we are back where we started (pun? no!) ...picutures soon. Its still doing a whrrrr but its anecdotally 25% improved. My old man is of the opinion that the solenoid is responsible for 'kicking the gears out' - so does the starter work by electomagnet force pushing the armature into the gears, or does the solenoid push the gears into the stater?

Either way, its more reliable....

Onto shocks - some may remember that I ripped a shock apart when I drove the rover 3 hours to Lynchburg (home of said old man) and we took it out on some trails... we started the process today or replacing the shocks and after acquiring a new angle grinder discovered that we could drill out the rusted cotter pin (see previous threads...no, on second thought, dont). Long story short, is there a right or wrong way to fit those bushings? They appear to be directional...we went with blunt side into eye of shock...right?

tomorrow is removal of hard top, fitting of soft top (our first father/son endeavor circa one year go, we're old hat!) ... oil change, diff oil change, and the other 3 shocks... should not take more than an hour, right?

right?

one hour?


also, any ideas about a new stater for a 2.5L?

[4flattires]

My old man is of the opinion that the solenoid is responsible for 'kicking the gears out' - so does the starter work by electomagnet force pushing the armature into the gears, or does the solenoid push the gears into the stater?

Your armature rotates, and only rotates. It's job is then done. In the absence of a pic of your starter, I am making a WAG that you have this style, and YES, the plunger noted in this pic pushes the starter drive from its previous sleepy state into an engagement position through the shock and awe of 'lectricity (ok....electro-magnetism makes it move).

I'll let others have a say in the bushing drama. I'm done for the day.

... oil change, diff oil change, and the other 3 shocks... should not take more than an hour, right?

right?

one hour?

Is there beer involved? Whoops...my bad.

How much beer is involved?

[NickDawson]

Thanks 4flattires, that pic helps a lot. We also found a great clip on YouTube about how starters work.
It looks like this one is a little different
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickdaw...s/starterrhd1/

On the end of the armature is a little gear that mates with a series of 3 other little gears to turn one bigger outer gear - sorry, can't get a pic of that to save my life. What I'm wondering is what is on the other side of all of that - the part that mates with the engine itself (is that the fly wheel?) - if that were missing teeth or gummed up, it would explain the whrrr

Regardless, our cleaning resulted in about a 25% improvement in reliability...