Cost of 300tdi/R380 install?

[Z O O R O P A]

anyone have any quotes?

anyone have any recommendations for the install as far as service centers.

I figure someone out there has to offer it reasonably, some business is better than no business right? after all it's only installing an engine and transmission, maybe a fitting



it's done all the time on other cars - shouldn't cost 15K$

[KevinNY]

It's not an engine replacement, it's a conversion. Done correctly with all the ancillaries it is way more involved than unbolting a v8 and replacing it with another one. Where are you going to mount fuel filters, what about the exhaust system, fuel return lines to the tank, fitting the intercooler etc. If it was easy and cheap then it would be easy and cheap

[junkyddog11]

It can easily cost 15k. All depends on what condition the donor parts are. If it is all new parts then just that will be over 15k.
Used can be done with a good lower mileage serviced engine and trans with wear items (clutch, timing belt, water pump, easy gaskets, rad and intercooler) replaced for about 12k or so.

[Z O O R O P A]

well then, I invite you to explore the subject. Full disclaimer, I know next to nothing about installing an engine. But like all things I firmly believe what one man can do, especially if it is done on a regular basis, another can do!

please correct me where you feel my assessment isn't accurate or you disagree. I believe having a healthy inventory of tdi Defenders in the US would be good for all; owners, parts suppliers, service shops, importers, and adventurers

respectfully, since car mechanics isn't exactly a mystery science ( not to play down its complexity ) and considering ebay.co.uk and even US ebay has plenty of available "reconditioned" engines and engine manuals I guess it is better I learn to do it myself with a few friends or better yet the local garage who has all the tools for hire and learn a thing or two about my engine which is always good

I understand it may require new mounting brackets etc. but the Defender engine bay appears to have plenty of room for either a 200tdi which fits snug without any new brackets, or a 300tdi a little more tight

you can pick up a decent engine&R380 off LRM, LRX, or ebay or the internet for a few grand, certainly under 3K$ US have it shipped and ready - especially if you know someone in the UK, and I do. Or go myself. I have seen the whole kit for sale on LRX in the US for 1500 bucks or so from time to time

I'm sure you will agree that 12K$+ is cost prohibitive since that money could be used for travel and or accessories at places like Rovers North not to mention the average joe or family man can't justify an expenditure like that when it can go to other investments - just seems frivolous no matter how much cash on hand you have. Although the long term benefit for a daily driver might be sensible when you add up gas and service costs versus a V8 from LR or any other car company

The draw of the tdi for me is reliability and economy. A 1000 miles in a V8 4.6 runs north of $300.00US+ @ $3.00 a gallon x 25 gallons = 250miles per tank not including one tank to refill at your destination. That is an unloaded vehicle with no rack.

Having owned 3 Discos that has been my experience

A round trip from say NYC --> Asheville NC would cost $600+ in a V8 in just highway fuel ( more like $900 ) That is considerable

compare that with a diesel 20gallon tank @ $4US a gallon x 20 = $80 per tank. If you're averaging 25mpgx20 = 500miles per tank, or $160US every 1000 miles versus $600 in a V8

25mpg in a 200tdi or 300tdi is more than reasonable even loaded

In fact after doing some research the only real drawback it appears to the 200tdi is the parts available in the US and a lower high end speed, maybe the 300 is a little more simple

since there are a plethora of 200tdis coming in maybe I will just wait for a nice truck from roversouteast or globalLRs or something, they seem to have the best bang for the buck

the 300tdi from importers seems to add about 10-15K for some reason, I don't think they are doing the install either from what I can gather

so if anyone has online pamphlets of the engine installation or a step by step install please post up! otherwise I suppose I will be buying the manuals off ebay and calling ECR from time to time

just trying to be smart with my money which I know is contrary to the whole LR experience hah but hey, we can try!

[Les Parker]

All this theory is wonderful.
What happens when the novice gets stuck?
Who does he turn to? Will the professionals, who do this as their livelyhood, give advice free?
There is no re-install manual, even when the manufacturer offered these as an install option the info. was sketchy to say the least.

[daveb]

I did the swap in my backyard. While your heart is in the right place, your post shows you may be in for more than you bargained. I doubt calling ECR will be of much help, I don't think Holly has done many TDi swaps.

There is alot of good and bad information out there. If you are used to big wrenching projects and have some fabrication ability you should be able to do the work. The hardest part for me was figuring out the pieces I did not have. It is much easier to fix the broken than the missing.

So, go to ebay uk, buy your engine "kit." Ship it over and put it in. Figure anywhere from $3000 on up if you do everything yourself. Maybe less if you get really lucky with your engine purchase. Like, really really stupid lucky.

Oh, and sign me up for those $1500 tdi kits...right. As for imported vehicles that already have a tdi, try to look for ones that use the proper r380 transmission and have as close to a factory appearance to the engine bay as possible.

There is no step by step, this is not tinker toys...though it is similar, and simple in the grand scheme of things.

At a minimum, to do a proper install of the 300tdi into an early defender without alot of custom bodge-work

300tdi defender engine complete with starter, alternator, turbo, airfilter and fuel filter and all associated pipework, and hopefully wiring
R80 trans and 1.4:1 LT230 transfer box from 300tdi defender
300tdi Rad, intercooler, and associated pipework
300tdi gearbox crossmember
300tdi exhaust full system
300tdi floor panels, transmission tunnel, firewall adapter, and seatbox (and sound insulation for same)
300tdi front and rear defender driveshafts
300tdi engine and gearbox mounting rubbers and chassis brackets for welding to the frame
Glow plug wiring and relay
300tdi PS reservoir bracket
300tdi PS pipes
300tdi Radiator support brackets
300tdi Bonnet prop mount
300tdi/r80 clutch hard line and flex line

I'm sure I am missing something here...I think a v8 throttle cable might work...and you may need to change the handbrake cable and handle depending on how new your setup is.

Of course you will want to replace the clutch, timing belt and tensioner, waterpump, fuel lift pump, rear main seal, and some other gaskets before you drop it in.

I managed to modify my install a bit to save having to track down some of the parts. But that is not for everyone. I'm in it for at least $3500 by now. Maybe more after the recent custom exhaust work necessitated by my "improvements" to the install

Though I did sell the old lt77 box for a portion of that. And no I can't get more engines

In a nutshell, you can probably do it if you have good mechanical ability and are willing to ask question and listen to the answers.

best I have seen is 24mpg from my 300tdi D90.

25mpg in a 200tdi or 300tdi is more than reasonable even loaded


just trying to be smart with my money which I know is contrary to the whole LR experience hah but hey, we can try!

[Guinness]

look @ http://www.cws4x4.co.uk/

complete kits for about $3k

I can't believe a LR 4 cyl tdi would cost $15k WHY?

Are they that much more reliable?

Are there as many part suppliers in the US for the tdi as there are for the good o'l LR V8?

The LR 3.9L V8 can struggle to keep up with traffic on an incline...I can't imagine how a 4 cyl tdi can be any better.

[solihull109]

Dave, you're 100% correct. Holly has never done a tdi swap.

Zoo --- I'm sure you're armchair is very cushy. Les made a very valid point, what happens when you get "stumped", which is very probable for even posting the way that you did.
Call ECR, see how far that gets you, or any other Indy shop, if mechanical things are beneath you, then why are you even asking any questions.
15K is short money to have it done right with decent parts.
Did you ever see what a $2000 200/300 diesel looks like?
I'm not trying be overly brash, but your last post warrants this a little.

Is the swap hard,... nope. But if you've never done one, there are things you'll miss, I'll bet on it.

So, calm down, reposition in your chair and sip your D/D coffee.

[Z O O R O P A]

great responses all!

yes my armchair speaks volumes as you can see

I just want to thank everyone for taking a few minutes to share their knowledge and experience.

Forgive me, I did not want to come off presumptuous at all. If my discourse projected I know what I'm doing, I don't and my apologies. The only inspiration was that it can be done for a reasonable sum and to get myself familiar with the set up

And I agree 100% I would not do it right the first time around without at least hiring some expertise for consultation. No question. But over a few summer weekends with some instruction I think it certainly could be done for far less than the quotes I've received recently

Les, fortunately, I have access to some great and renown Rover service centers; Rovers North, the 4x4 Center, Lanny Clark, etc for when I get over my head, and I will get over my head

Dave thank you for the extensive write up, I wholly applaud you for the undertaking

there are certainly not as many parts available in the US for tdi engines. I am surprised to hear of the mpgs reported here as all the UK sites I peruse and some US owners have reported much better results

I guess maybe some other options might be to have it done over in the UK despite the exchange rate if I could find an appropriate vehicle before it gets snatched up

I'm still exploring it but I am excited at the prospect. Perhaps some further investigation might make it seem more possible or it might deter the idea all together

anyway, I thought it was a good subject for debate and thanks again for contributing, it is nice to get others perspectives

[junkyddog11]

there are certainly not as many parts available in the US for tdi engines. I am surprised to hear of the mpgs reported here as all the UK sites I peruse and some US owners have reported much better results

pretty much anything needed for these motors can be had in a day or two.
I keep most service items in stock and our hosts carry a large inventory.
I also work on, install and drive them daily, have done for years, have not seen 25mp(US)g yet. Probably can get low 20's on the hwy.....gets about the same around town.

You have to drive along way to break even. Not the right reason to do the swap.

[daveb]

Also UK gallons are a bit bigger...

[junkyddog11]

hence the 20 mp(US)g in my response. The fuel consumption of these things seem to be an ongoing debate. I have a bog standard RRC (not the S$$T!) that I've been playing with to see what can be acheived. Cannot get 25mpg avg. Can get 23 all day long, short trip, long trip, full of people , empty, towing a small boat.....doesn't matter. Does go down a bit if you drive over 65mph. Considering the same rig with the V8 did about 12-13 mpg it's a pretty good gain but will still take allot of driving to pay for itself. it had a brand new crate motor (factory kit) installed which for an RRC with AC and the correct trans, cruise control etc. runs about 26K (installed).

I get people dropping jaw on a daily basis ( yours too I think eh daveb?) it seems with the cost of these diesel installs. I also have more of them to do than I can schedule right now. There must be some sort of value in it, and I'm certainly not getting rich quickly (sort of a slow smelly rich!).

[Z O O R O P A]

interesting, good point making the distinction, I had forgot the difference between UK and American gallons

26K for an engine install . . . kind of speaks for itself

unless you're in NYC or SF or something

some US owners on a US overland site reported this week the following;

low to mid 20s on a Defender 130 @ 65mph, 300tdi

200tdi 28-30mpg D110

TD5 26-28 @ 65mph D110

another TD5 owner 20-24 even @ 85mph D110

so I guess it varies

looking at the increase in availability in 25yo imports with diesels, it appears is most likely the way to go or just have a conversion done in the UK before shipping, even with currency exchange it would be far cheaper, which says a lot

I'm at a loss to understand how the cost would run north of $12-15K. $26K? what's your labor rate? do I get a diamond ring with that? or some fries?

then again, in America you can really spend as much as you want on anything you want

just teasing, sounds like you do superb work especially if you're booked up

there is a 200tdi coming in this week and 7 more diesels otw from another place I am exploring, let you know how it goes

thx again everyone for your insight and wisdom

[daveb]

( yours too I think eh daveb?)

Indeed, although I wasn't really surprised, just confirmed what I already knew. Was hoping mine could somehow be done on the cheap, for some reason. Actually probably would have been more than quoted due to all the non standard crap that I did

Zoo, you don't even want to know the cost of a new complete 300tdi engine. I'm afraid I will always be stuck with the junkyard units from the UK...its ok, I've never had a new engine in anything, only rebuilds or "unknown" and I've done ok. Always somewhat of a crap shoot though when buying from overseas.

[Z O O R O P A]

Dave love your signature quote from RH, that is a superb video isn't it?

would your recommendation then to either have it done in the UK overseen by a friend or just get a whole package and take my luck with an import?

what issues should I look for in a 200 or 300 that is used or what expectation should I have on a refurbished one?

many thanks!