help removing bushing

[jpetropoulos]

I am working on a 72 series III 88" that has pretty typical rust. I have removed the rear leaf springs but on the rear mount / rear spring / drivers side, the bushing was disintegrated and so the inner sleeve of the bushing came out solidly attached to the nut that goes between the shackles and through the bushing with most of the rubber attached.

The problem is that the bushing's outer sleeve is absolutely snug in the round collet (right word) that is integrated into the frame. I have tried tapping it out but it did not budge. I worked a punch between the sleeve of the bushing and the collet and managed to bend it a bit but it is slow and sloppy going and I am worried that I am marring the inside of the collet and will have difficulty getting the new bushing in (if I get that far!)

Anyone here recognize this dilemma and have the obvious solution for me?

Thanks a lot

Jack

[stomper]

I've never had this problem, so others will possibly chime in with other solutions, but I would use a torch, and burn the bushing out of the collet. A little smelly, but you will save yourself a lot of time, and you are replacing it anyway. No marring is a huge bonus.

[siiirhd88]

I have used a sawzall with a fine tooth blade to cut a small section out of the length of the 'tube'. The missing section allows enough flex for the remaining 'tube' to be chiseled loose. Be carefull not to cut into the frame metal.

Bob

[jac04]

Anyone here recognize this dilemma ...
I think almost everyone here, including me, has been in the same situation as you. It is a real PITA.
You can use a hacksaw to cut through the outer sleeve of the bushing. Feed the blade through the sleeve first, then re-attach to the saw. Saw carefuly until you are through the sleeve.
You can also use a die grinder to carefully grind a thin area in the wall of the sleeve, then you can use the punch & hammer method to split the sleeve at the thin spot.

[jpetropoulos]

Just amazing. 10 minutes later and I have my answer. Thanks fellas

[gudjeon]

x2 on hacksaw method. Slice the sleeve and collapse it. If you can put 2 hacksaw blades together and slice the sleeve, works every time.:thumb-up:

[mongoswede]

I have used a sawzall with a fine tooth blade to cut a small section out of the length of the 'tube'. The missing section allows enough flex for the remaining 'tube' to be chiseled loose. Be carefull not to cut into the frame metal.

Bob

I vote for the Sawzall method. The hacksaw works but it takes FOREVER. Just pay attention and stop to check on your depth of cut.

[I Leak Oil]

Count your blessings that the rubber came out with the inner sleeve! Usually the shackle bolt rusts to the inner sleeve and they you really have some work ahead of you.

[mongoswede]

The last one i did I tried pressing the bushing out and I tried pounding it out. Then I cut each end off the bolt. After that i drilled multiple holes in the rubber and was able to get the bolt out. Then I had to chisel all of the rubber out followed by a few hours with a sawzall, hammer, and chisel to cut, pry, hammer out the inner sleeve.

[thixon]

You can also put the smoke wrench to it, and then tap it out.

[I Leak Oil]

The last one i did I tried pressing the bushing out and I tried pounding it out. Then I cut each end off the bolt. After that i drilled multiple holes in the rubber and was able to get the bolt out. Then I had to chisel all of the rubber out followed by a few hours with a sawzall, hammer, and chisel to cut, pry, hammer out the inner sleeve.

I've done that a couple times too. I think they should make that procedure part of the Green Bible. The blue wrench procedure as an alternative. Of course this part of the book needs to be rated R.....

[smukai]

Wow...this brings back memories from 6 or so years ago when I upgraded to parabolic springs.

Hacksaw worked best...it was very easy to make sure I didn't cut too far....

[NickDawson]

used the sawzall method as well - worked quite well

[jpetropoulos]

So the old bushing casing came out slicker 'n weasel snot. But now the new bushing are just too tight to go in. I have given the inside a run with the file and I am able to get the bushings in about 3/4" but the movement with every tap of the hammer gets smaller and smaller and I am reluctant to drive the thing in too tightly.

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Would heating the casing (welded into the frame) help? If yes, can it be done with the gas soldering torch or is the heat simply not there?

I can keep filing but I am sure that I will distort the inside of the casing too unevenly and end up with a sloppy fit.

Jack

[SafeAirOne]

I've never had to do mine, so I'm just throwing this out there:

If it were me, I'd just lube it up and drive it on it, but I'm curious if heating the hole up and freezing the bushings before installation would yield results.

I imagine that the straightness (alignment) of the bushing during installation would have an impact on the whole operation too.

[I Leak Oil]

First off, stop filing! They're supposed to be a press fit. Second, don't hammer them in. You'll distort the outer case making it even tougher to get in (and out next time) and could end up destroying the bond between the rubber and the casings. Use a bolt, washers and a couple various sockets to draw the bushing into place. And yes, starting it nice and straight will help.

[jpetropoulos]

Ouch! Hand slap (deserved I think). :eek: Good points I Leak Oil. It is amazing how obvious some things are after they are pointed out.

Could you describe the bolt / washer / socket setup a little bit? I am imagining that I should be putting the pressure on the outer casing of the bushing and not in the inner sleeve?

I guess that this would mean that I need a washer with a large enough inner hole to go around the inner sleeve and that the thickness of that washer would have to be greater than the distance that the inner sleeve protrudes past the outer sleeve. I can think of a few configurations but it would be great to get a description of one that has proven itself.

And you mention "pulling" the bushing in. I assume that it is acceptable to push rather than to pull? It would be so much easier to start the bushing from the outside, and to have that be the working end as well.

Thanks for all of the input.

Jack

[I Leak Oil]

Pull/push...it's all the same to the bushing. You want a controlled non impact method if possible. The washers or what ever need to apply the force to the outer casing, and have an ID big enough to not put force on the inner sleeve if possible.

Start the bushing in the frame/spring eye. Put the bolt (better yet, I used threaded rod last time) with the washers through it. Thread a nut down until the bushing draws into the frame or spring. If you're using a bolt you'll most likely have to stop, undo the set up and use spacers as you'll most likely run out of thread. Using a piece of threaded rod, or an odd ball fully threaded bolt, you won't have to use spacers. Use grade 5 or better as the grade 2 stuff will usually just neck out and fail.

[gudjeon]

I ended up using a fully threaded bolt that was used to hold power pole cross braces on. This stuff is very tough. Anytime I have something that is pressed in, I make sure the inner bore is smooth and clean. I make an el Cheapo flap wheel for a drill by cutting a slit at the end of 6" of dowel to fit 8-grit emery strips. Spin around inside to smooth. Wear out emery? no prob. just rip some more off the roll. Break the rod? just cut a new one. If it breaks, its not going to gouge up anything. Smooth up the outside of the bushing as well. Lube up well with oil/grease and push/pull in with improvised tool. Hammering just has it bouncing off the rubber by hitting the middle, distorts the shell of the bush, and makes it go in cock-eyed. If its a loose fit, remove and degrease with alcohol, then apply red locktite. I follow this with any pressed in ass'y and have never gone wrong yet. Its a bit more prep work, but avoids problems later.:thumb-up:

[alaskajosh]

It might be time to mention the greasable poly bushings offered by Great Basin Rovers. They go in with your fingers and (presumably, I haven't had to do it) come out with your fingers.

[Sputnicker]

a
washer with a large enough inner hole to go around the inner sleeve and that the thickness of that washer would have to be greater than the distance that the inner sleeve protrudes past the outer sleeve

You are correct - the force has to be applied to the outer sleeve. The big washer on the lower shock absorber pins works perfectly.

[gudjeon]

I am making an off road trailer based on the ww2 jeep trailer design. I have machined brass bushings that hammer in the 2 halves. The bolts are drilled so the ass'y can be greased. If this stands up well, I am making these for my Rover next time....:thumb-up:

[I Leak Oil]

I have machined brass bushings that hammer in the 2 halves. The bolts are drilled so the ass'y can be greased. If this stands up well, I am making these for my Rover next time....:thumb-up:

Big rig style! Let us know how it rides, should be interesting.

[jpetropoulos]

Hi Josh

I couldn't find these bearings on their site. Can you reference the page

[alaskajosh]

Hi Josh

I couldn't find these bearings on their site. Can you reference the page

Great Basin Rovers is a good company but for a web-based business their website is... not as good.
Give Bill a call.

In the meantime here's TAW on the subject:
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/landRoverFAQ/FAQ_shackle.htm

[jpetropoulos]

Thanks Josh

[jpetropoulos]

So I made up the required tool using a 1/2" grade 8 bolt with matching washers and nuts, using the shock absorber washer to fit around the inner sleeve of the busing. This worked nicely and I got within 1/8" of getting the busing fully inserted when the bolt actually snapped in half! Literally in 1/2! The nut didn't fail, the threads didn't fail, the bolt snapped with the nut end flying off. Amazing!

Is there something stronger than a #8?

Those GBR bushings are looking good right now

[Sputnicker]

Sounds like a very tight fit. I'd suggest getting another Grade 8 bolt (9/16" if you can find one). Fine threads are better/stronger. Use some grade 8 flat washers and grease the threads. Maybe some penetrating oil (PB blaster or equivalent) if you didn't already lubricate the bore/outer sleeve. Once you get some torque on the bolt, a hammer blow or two (on the bolt head) might get things moving again. I was able to get by with Grade 5 all-thread and some Grade 8 nuts, but did considerable damage to the threads in the process. Snapping a 1/2" Grade-8 bolt is impressive - could have been a defect.

Replacing these bushings was voted one of the Worst Repairs in a previous thread and deservedly so.

Good luck.

[Mountain132]

Just got the frame back from the galvanizer and can't get the front bushings in. The rear ones went in with the threaded rod/pipe/washer method but after multiple attempts I snapped 2 threaded rods, pulled a nut through a pipe cap fitting, and bent half inch washers. I know the zinc added some to the diameter of the hole but didn't think it would be that tight. I only got it about 2 inches in and had to grind it off and haven't started on the full removal of the bushing.

When I started, the bushing wouldn't even go in the hole so I had to file the edges of the opening to get it started. How can I increase the diameter of the hole/reduce the diameter of the bushing?

[siiirhd88]

After I had my 109 chassis galvanized I used a small drum sander to clean up the bushing holes. I froze the bushings before installing, and used plenty of anti sieze when installed. I used the same long threaded rod and washer tool to install, but I used grade 8 bits for strength.

Bob

[jpetropoulos]

Hi Mountain

I had good luck with the bushings from Great Basin Rovers. You won't find them on his site but if you call you can get a set mailed to your house. They are simple molded inserts that you push in from the inner and outer sides of the frame and then push a metals sleeve through the inserts. The sleeve holds the crossbolt that attaches the leaf spring. THey are almost effortless and worth every penny in time, and swear words saved.

[SafeAirOne]

Hi Mountain

I had good luck with the bushings from Great Basin Rovers. You won't find them on his site but if you call you can get a set mailed to your house. They are simple molded inserts that you push in from the inner and outer sides of the frame and then push a metals sleeve through the inserts. The sleeve holds the crossbolt that attaches the leaf spring. THey are almost effortless and worth every penny in time, and swear words saved.


Are they polyurathane bushings? DISCLAIMER: I have no personal experience with Poly bushes, but I understand that these do not fare as well as rubber bushings in the durability department. See: http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6571

[Donnie]

I am working on a 72 series III 88" that has pretty typical rust. I have removed the rear leaf springs but on the rear mount / rear spring / drivers side, the bushing was disintegrated and so the inner sleeve of the bushing came out solidly attached to the nut that goes between the shackles and through the bushing with most of the rubber attached.

The problem is that the bushing's outer sleeve is absolutely snug in the round collet (right word) that is integrated into the frame. I have tried tapping it out but it did not budge. I worked a punch between the sleeve of the bushing and the collet and managed to bend it a bit but it is slow and sloppy going and I am worried that I am marring the inside of the collet and will have difficulty getting the new bushing in (if I get that far!)

Anyone here recognize this dilemma and have the obvious solution for me?

Thanks a lot

Jack
If you have a torch, blue tip special. This is the easy way to remove it
Installing: use a bolt and pull it into place....others have already said that, but It is my favorite way to proceed.....

[Mountain132]

Time for poly front frame bushings.

sanded frame opening, froze bushing, heated frame with torch, greased bushings and opening.......grade 8 bolts snapped, bushing won't install beyond half way. Used a 18mm impact socket the same diameter as the outer sleeve of the bushing to act as a washer and the shackle as another washer. Not budging. Pounded the socket with a 5 lb ballpeen hammer, didn't budge. Used 2 concrete blocks and a scissor jack to try and press the bushing in from between the frame legs and looked as if the bushing sleeve in the frame was pressing outward. Something tells me the diameter of the bushing is > the diameter of the frame bushing sleeve. 3rd bushing down the drain.

I may cut out what is protruding and pound it in the opposite side. Similar to the 2 piece poly bushings. Any thoughts?

[jpetropoulos]

I feel for you.

I scratched my head too many times trying to do the right / original thing. I must admit that I am no pro but those 2 piece poly bushings make things a lot easier. With that said, lots of guys have success with the originals so there must be a way. I just had to work too hard to find it. Snapping a Grade 8 is a sobering moment.

I don't think I would cut off the protruding piece. I would remove it and go with the poly. That's just me.

[SafeAirOne]

On another application I had to do some a-arm bushings and had similar difficulty. I found that the problem was all the junk left in the bore. Even a little rust or scale will make the job impossible.

I had a couple of grinding wheels for my drill, like these (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1289000&cp=2568443.2568450.2628094.2629274.2629321), lying around so I wore them down on a piece of concrete till they were slightly larger than the bore I was trying to clean out. Then I just put them up to the hole and applied a little pressure till the last tiny bit of stone was worn off and the wheels entered the bore, perfectly sized.

I ran them through the bores a few times while rusty dust filled the air. After the bores looked smooth, I took an oily rag and wiped the rust residue away and preceeded normally.

Worked like a charm for my application. Probably would here, too.

[disco2hse]

Some graphite grease or copper grease might help too. Helps to stop further corrosion and aids in removal later when they haven't rusted together, again.