Baby Seat in an 88 Series IIa

[BrooklynLR]

Hello: I'm new to the boards as I am not yet a series owner but am thinking seriously of becoming one. Has anyone ever used a baby car seat in an 88 series IIa truck? One I am interested in has 3 seats in the front and so I am wondering if a baby seat could go there without impeding shifting. Baby seats in the front seat are legal although not recommended (not sure what people with 2 seater coupes do...). Another option would maybe be to jury rig a platform in the back center of the bed, maybe attached to the bench that runs behind the seats. Making this work would certainly sweeten the whole concept of Rover ownership for my wife. We have another car, of course, but would want to drive the Rover around town as much as possible and lack of a baby seat option would certainly limit use. Anybody have any ideas or pictures? Thanks!

[Winemark]

I sort of thought this post was a joke at first. It may be possible and I am sure someone has done it. In all honesty and strictly in my opinion, I would never put a child in a Series. No modern safety equiptment, i.e. 5 mph bumpers, padded dashboards, airbags. Nor is the truck one that handles like a modern car and can avoid accidents as easily when used in traffic.
Buy the Series and have a ball with it and keep another car for the kiddos. Just my 2 cents

[adkrover]

Definitely not a kid friendly car. That's like asking if anyone put a car seat on a motorcycle. I say buy the Rover but just drive it when the kids are at school. It it's like most Rovers, you'll be working on it until the kids are out of college so it won't matter anyway.

[jac04]

If you are talking an actual baby seat, then you obviously need to be aware of the requirements (rear facing / forward facing) depending upon the age/weight of the child. Assuming you had the proper anchor points, putting a baby seat in the middle, especially rear facing, would still most likely prohibit shifting. Making your own mounting points may seem like a good idea, but would you really trust whatever you make?

I bring my 4 year old daughter to the local cruise night and out for ice cream, but she is in a booster seat and my vehicle has real 3 point seat belts as installed by the factory. We avoid main roads and I drive extremely defensively.

[thixon]

GreenMeanie installed a forward facing jeep seat in the rear of his 88, and made a bracket so that he could use the latch system for his car seat. He's a design engineer by trade, and has an advantage over many when it comes to modification of his vehicle. Search this board, and I think you'll find a post he did on it.

I'm not gonna give you my opinion on what to do with your kids. Anyone who does is being a high-and-mighty A$$hole. This topic is highly debatable, and you're gonna get people defending both sides passionately. In short, you'll have to decide for yourself what to do.

As for safety, well, a series truck isnt exactly a volvo. Neither is a Jeep Wrangler for that matter and I see kids in them all the time. I saw a family packed into one with top off on I-95 last week. The quick stop in an accident is usually what kills you, and its hard to avoid that fact no matter what car you're in. However, any old british car isn't much better than a motorcycle in terms of protection in an accident. A buddy of mine and I joke that in most of the brit cars we've owned, you're better off bailing out if you have time. When I was a kid, my uncle would take me all over town on his motorcycle. I routinely rode in the very back of my grandparents station wagon (no seat belts at all). Ironically, I obsess over making sure my kids are in the correct type and size seat for them, and wouldn't think of letting anyone take them for a ride on a motorcycle. Go figure.

[gambrinus]

What you need is a 109 SW. ;) It's all a personal choice... 88 is a tough call. With the 109 you can mount a kiddie seat in the middle row.

[graniterover]

A jeep seat fits fine in the back. $40 on craigslist. Some with belts already there.

I put my kid in the front as well, but not in the middle. I don't think you could shift if the seat was there.

[NRutterbush]

Child seats are not recommended in the front due to Airbag inflation dangers.

You are highly unlikely to encounter that problem in a Series Rover :eek:

While my daughter is likely to be old enough to drive before I finish restoring a rover, I think that I will basically plan on keeping her out of the vehicle in and around town, until she is old enough to ride properly.

I suspect the biggest issue will be convincing my wife to ride in the back so that the car-seat can ride up front.

[KingSlug]

Definitely not a kid friendly car. That's like asking if anyone put a car seat on a motorcycle. I say buy the Rover but just drive it when the kids are at school. It it's like most Rovers, you'll be working on it until the kids are out of college so it won't matter anyway.

I put a carseat in the sidecar of my scooter and put my kid in the front seat of my ambulance all the time. If you are going to eliminate series rovers, then add in every car made before 1975. Life is inherently dangerous.

I would mount a jeep flip seat in the rear with proper mounting and seatbelts which includes re-enforcement plates.

It all comes down to how safe you want you and your kid to be. If motorcyclist and bicyclists have to wear helmets, why not drivers in cars after all NASCAR does. Heck if riding in a series isnt safe for your kid, it probably isnt for you and you should sell it or demand a factory recall.

Jared

[ducttape]

This really is a wonderful post!

Even though I can't stand my wife's incessant mothering, I do understand her points and I have to say that if your kids aren't old enough to realize the 'danger' of being in the Rover, they aren't old enough to ride in it. As an every day car it probably wouldn't work

Sorry to burst that bubble. Do not let it stop you though. Get a different kids car, then hock whatever you can to get a Rover too. Sell the Mrs. if you have too. You will really enjoy the Rover and so will your kids, pets and if you are really lucky your wife too. Of course, you'll still be working on the Rover when your car-seat kids are old enough to leave for college but that is the beauty of it. Think of the bonding time you'll share!

[LC_rover]

An 88" is tough. I am pretty sure the child seat in the middle front is going to get in the way of shifting. I had one up there in my full size Chevy when I would pull the camper, and it was very very tight.

A 109" would be the ticket, in the middle rear.

Then again, you could mount a bracket on the floor of the rear, or even a seat belt, that would allow you to secure a child seat just as well as it would be in the back seat of any other car.

Also, I don't know how small of a kid your talking about, but I just put 5 point racing harnesses in the 3 front seats of my 88, and I don't use a car seat at all. I've never had a cop stop me, but these restraints have them very well restrained, and I am not worried about that part of their safety.

Cheers!

P.S. Read "Freakonomics" (or maybe its "Super Freakonomics") and their research on child seats. This industry has done a huge snowjob on everyone. There is absolutely ZERO evidence that toddlers and up are any safer in a child seat than simply buckled in the rear seat, and in some tests, the child seats perform WORSE. If anyone had any sense, we'd be modifying the seat belts, rather than adding some contraption like a car seat. (Obviously not the case for infants.)

[Terrys]

Get an old metal lunch box (that's your series truck)
Get one raw egg (that's your child)
Get some scotch tape (thats almost as safe as your seatbelts in a series truck)

Securely tape egg to the middle on the bottom of the lunch box, close it up and whack it with a baseball bat (That's the suburban that ran the light)

Pry open the lunch box
That's your child all over the inside.

[scott]

The downside of not putting your kids in a series is you increase their odds of reaching puberty and eventually sucking so much out of ya that ya can't afford to maintain and play in your sereies.

[Apis Mellifera]

I guess I'm a bad father. Not only have I driven around with my two year old son in a car seat in the front of our 88, he's also ridden in the middle seat with just the lap belt. I guess I fall into the category of those that believe the current climate of protecting us from ourselves has gone too far. I'm not saying that there isn't room for due diligence, but frankly, I'm more than tired of crybabies and people that can't fathom the concept of personal responsibility and self reliance. As a boy, I routinely rode from NC to WV and back sleeping (unbelted) on the rear parcel shelf of our '72 Ford Gran Torino. Rather than living in fear of what-ifs, I had a lot of fun and made some good memories.

That said, I wouldn't take may son for a ride without being belted. Partly because do-gooders would imprison me for child neglect, but also because it's a simple precaution that keeps him from being a pinball in a wreck and also keeps him from crawling into my lap or jumping out the window. I think a child seat in the front of a Series is plenty safe and if we were to drive it as a family more, I'd fit a small 5-point harness to the middle seat and call that good.

[Terrys]

I'm more than tired of crybabies and people that can't fathom the concept of personal responsibility and self reliance. As a boy, I routinely rode from NC to WV and back sleeping (unbelted) on the rear parcel shelf of our '72 Ford Gran Torino.

...and walked to school and back home, uphiill both ways in the snow.
Just kidding.

I'm no less tired of the dearth of personal injury lawyers too, but personal responsibility and self reliance still won't protect you or your kid from that Suburban that ran the light. (I'm not making an idle ****ogy. It was a real Suburban that ran a light, T-boned an S2A and killed the three in the 2A)
Sadly, too many teens today think they are invincible, and drive like $hit.
I'll grant that a 109 would be a far better choice to take a child out for a ride in, but facts remain, Series trucks, little changed from 1948, are tin boxes with loads of hard surfaces and angles.

[Apis Mellifera]

You could also get struck by lightning or attacked by a shark or choke to death on a sesame seed. You could also live your life thinking of and planning for every possibility, but then still die from the one thing you forgot about. You could never leave your house, but the reality is, you're still going to die. If a Suburban driven by someone else dictates how you live your life, then you probably should stay indoors. I choose not to limit myself nor cripple my children with the fear of the very unlikely. I don't even have a seatbelt for myself in the 88. I also commute to work regularly in an MGA and plan to drive a Bugeye or Lotus 7 everyday once they're finished. Those cars have no place in rush hour traffic, but I'll be the guy with the biggest smile driving to work in a car with no belts and wooden floors. That is assuming I don't die before then from eating a piece of bacon or listening to loud music. I do "unsafe" things like that because the fun far outweighs the risk. I guess I don't what to live in the Kingdom of Fear so I choose not to. [/rant]

[thixon]

Apis, you're not a bad father.

Terrys, if you're t-boned by a suburban, you're dead no matter what you drive.

[Cutter]

I've got a 109 3 door and have thought about how to do this as well. I would not chose to do it on a daily basis personally for convenience and economy in a series. I suppose safety is a concern, but the ****ogies with motorcycles (I ride one regularly, well less so now that I have a 7 month old) are a bit of a stretch- the danger with a motorcycle is that drivers just don't see you, and there is nothing between you and the world. A series might not add much to protection, but it adds a lot to your visual signature. In the end I believe you do what you can to be safe -helmet, leathers, seatbelts- and the rest of life is a crap shoot anyways... this is a personal choice regardless so I'll stop there.

I was thinking of putting the car seat in the passenger seat, but the wife maybe won't be so psyched riding in the back on the side benches for long trips, but she's not psyched in the series for long rides regardless I think. It is easy to get the baby in and out that way though. I like the fold up jeep bench, and I think the child will be most protected in that location if if is mounted forward in the bed, but its not so easy to get to from either side. my first idea was bolting down a seat belt mount to the floor (reinforced) so its as minimal as possible for now, as I don't expect to haul the kid around much in it, but as they get older the bench seems like a good option.

[scott]

Agree apis ain't a bad dad, that is unless he's driving his kids in a series to his meth lab were he parks 'em in front of a tv while he works.

****ogies (it funny that that gets censored) with the bike don't work. Bikes move fast potatoehead pulls out in front of or otherwise fails to yeild bike loses. Roves move slow, if some one accidently pulls out in front of you the driver would have time to stop get out of his car check tire pressurer get back in and get out of the way of a scream'n iia

[Tim Smith]

I think the safety decision is being well marked out here but I have to say, I can't get my puppy to ride in my truck without getting sick within a couple of miles. In the Volvo he's fine though. Maybe that says something about the ride but there's my two cents. :rolleyes:

[Terrys]

Apis, It seems to me that you're completely missing the point. I wouldn't take my kids out in my TD, my Super 7 (not a clone either) the Moke or my 88, but would in just about anything else I had when they were small.Those simply are not kid friendly. The only thing I see that's even less so is people with little kids in their crotch on a bike. My youngest was 7 when I got my 110, and she sat in the middle of the back seat, and I was comfortable with that. I don't lay awake worrying about anything, but when I had my kids with me, they were my prime concern, not my $hit eating grin for my personal joy. Oh, Thixon, the Sub was doing less than 40

[Apis Mellifera]

Oh, I understand the point you're trying to make. You're saying that little kids of today are somehow different, more fragile, than the kids of 20 or 50 or 100 years ago. They can't possibly survive childhood unless a well-meaning adult looms over them, stripping all threat of danger and adventure out of their lives. The little kids of olden times, that whittled, rode horses, shot guns, and ran farm machinery somehow escaped certain death and eventually grew up to produce weaker, more sensitive children that thrive on coddling and smothering sanitation. Ok, that's overly dramatic, but I meant it to be. I think you're the one missing the point. Crude description notwithstanding, suggesting that having a smile on your face while driving your favorite car is somehow self-serving and mutually exclusive of your child's safety is just plain silly. Planet Earth is not very kid friendly, yet they wallow in the dirt, swim in the ocean, and are bombarded with all sorts of tiny organisms teeming on the toys that pass from child's mouth to floor to child's mouth. Children face far greater threats than statistically unlikely what-ifs; over protective parents, for example. Driving anything other than a vehicle with the latest safety equipment is more dangerous than necessary. Driving a 40 year old vehicle is downright lunacy. Regardless, the likelihood of meeting doom, whatever you drive, is incredibly small. Driving an older vehicle might be marginally more "dangerous" nowadays, but then again, so is going out in the sun. Bringing your kids along and letting them enjoy the car isn't, however, as reckless as giving an infant a loaded revolver with an inevitable negative outcome.

My MG Midget was totaled by a drunk driving a Subaru Justy. Impact was around 30mph. I don't see the relevance in speed or vehicles involved. People have survived free falling from an airplane. Now if every Series that wrecked at 40mph resulted in death, then you might have something there. Otherwise, it was an unfortunate accident that may or may not have happened under other circumstances or with other vehicles. The point made earlier was that, unless the Suburban impacted a vehicle with the same or greater mass, the smaller vehicle will generally lose every time.

I have a friend whose dad owned a collection of rare Porsche race cars. When he died, we were remembering him and his daughter remembered how great it was to be picked up from school in a 904, flat six snarling and stinking of oil and gasoline. Similarly, some of my earliest memories are those spent with my dad in an MGA. Kids love that stuff. I digress. To each his own. Lord willing, my kids will grow up teething on bakelite and won't cry for stitches when they get a hangnail.

[Mountain132]

I installed a new jeep seat with lap belts in the rear of my 88; the child seat was installed with the belt and lashed to brackets to the floor. I took my son around on side roads in GA when he was a few months old. the vibration and heat put him to sleep instantly.

Now that I've completely disassembled the vehicle for rebuild and and found so many faults I'm surprised we didn't die just sitting in the driveway.

By the time I get it back together my son will be driving and I'll be using a walker and this discussion will transition into determining when one becomes too frail to ride in an 88.

[scott]

... and I'll be using a walker and this discussion will transition into determining when one becomes too frail to ride in an 88.

ah returning to whence we came. but we can keep the beer, right?

[SalemRover]

This is how a kid should ride in a 109. You are all doing it wrong....
http://www.trainsim.com/metaldash/images/2009/images/IMG_0167.jpg

[LaneRover]

I think the safety decision is being well marked out here but I have to say, I can't get my puppy to ride in my truck without getting sick within a couple of miles. In the Volvo he's fine though. Maybe that says something about the ride but there's my two cents. :rolleyes:

At least the puppy gets sick in the vehicle you can hose out

[LC_rover]

SalemRover... LoL

[Terrys]

Apis, I think you have the impression that I'm one of those who only took their kids out when the planets were aligned just so, had to check the wx, etc. Furthest from it. My point it that some cars are not safe for infants, whose skulls aren't yet fused, who don't have cognitive reaction, and are completely at the mercy of the physics surronding them. Once they were out of diapers, Games on in this house. My daughter started riding at 5, and has contiued that for 22 more years, her twin brother had one rule; be back by dark. He was ATVing all over the 2000 acres behind me on his ATV at 10 (only in the fields here on the farm before that) Both learned to hunt long before they were legal. I wasn't so keen on my daughter making her first (of many) parachute jumps at 16, but I wasn't going to stop her either. I'm even letting my 17yo go to OZ Fest this weekend. They all had their jobs growing up around here, cutting and stacking wood for the sugarhouse; taking one of the Land Rovers twice daily to collect sap, picking up drops and pressing them in the fall for cider (my daughter can fire the boiler and run the steam engine and press as well as I can) They did OK, and both have a survival suit as part of their kit, my son daily in the CG on C130 search and rescue, my daughter 3 months a year on Orions for the National Hurricane Center. My son took 4 weeks leave to pick up his GSPD bike in SLC and ride 6200 miles back to Kodiak via the Yukon and NW territory. I didn't raise them to be bubble babies, and they are far from it, but they don't throw caution to the wind, and neither did I when they didn't have the choice.

My point was, and still is, that infants don't belong in metal boxes when they're as fragile as an egg, yet to be hardboiled. If using that amount of parenting protection, for such a short period in their lives is over-protective in your eyes, well, that's you, but not me.

[scott]

Not to change the subject of child safety but terrys I gott say how jeslous I am. I've 2 19 and a 23 y/o and they are all non working wallet leaches. Sure 2 of 'em a in school but dang I couldn't get 'em to do chores to save ...

[stonefox]

I was thinking there might be a market for a child carseat adapter kit that would connect directly to the rear tire swing away.:eek:

[scott]

I was thinking there might be a market for a child carseat adapter kit that would connect directly to the rear tire swing away.:eek:

If it was set up to where their little feet reach the ground ya would have to get out and unstrp when it came time for a push

[LH Drive]

To answer your question, Yes a child seat (toddler) does fit in the front center seat area but you have to remove the seat back and bottom in order to be able to shift. The car seat I had came with an anchor strap that I secured to the back bulkhead where the spare tire mounts behind the seat.
Once my son's legs got too long he kept kicking the overdrive into neutral and I would loose power to the axle. You would think by this time I would just quit driving with him but NO, I just removed the overdrive shifter since I would only drive him around the block and not on the highway. (under 25 mph)
Would I get nasty looks from some people, yes but they probably also don't like dogs to ride without being in a proper size pet carrier.
My Series is classified as a "TRUCK" and in my state you are able to mount child seats inside trucks (reg. cabs) since you can no longer have passengers in the bed area like the good old days,,,,, including pets.

[LaneRover]

Would I get nasty looks from some people, yes but they probably also don't like dogs to ride without being in a proper size pet carrier.
My Series is classified as a "TRUCK" and in my state you are able to mount child seats inside trucks (reg. cabs) since you can no longer have passengers in the bed area like the good old days,,,,, including pets.

In Maine you can legally have a kid/car seat in the front seat IF there is no backseat available - and this is probably the case in most places.

[RoverForm]

i was 17, driving my father's suburban when some guy ran a stop sign while i had the right of way through an intersection, and i t-boned him. his fault, but i felt guilty as hell cuz my suburban destroyed his 4-door buick and severely injured his passenger. it was traumatic for me and i can't imagine how it was for them. his error definitively changed my driving behavior and car purchasing decisions to this day. haven't been in an accident since and that was nearly 20 years ago.

i went to look at a SIIa 88 in vancouver last month. the owner had a two seater up front with a two month old in the right hand passenger; i was surprised at first, but then upon closer inspection I saw that he did have newer defender or disco 3-point shoulder harnesses installed and everything appeared in safe working order.

the wife/mother was in the rear jump seat.

this is a concern for me cuz i have both 4 and 7 year old nephews, considering quick jaunts to the beach and skatepark during off peak traffic times, but will most likely not be hitting the freeways with them in the vehicle at all.

then there's the concern of the fuel tank directly under the right front seat, my SIIa is a RHD so this actually takes some of the risk off the youngins. i've always disliked the decision to put the tank under the seats. should be mounted in the rear like the 109s.

conversely, i do drive a '07 volvo v50 as my daily driver, which is obviously the better choice for children... but clearly it isn't nearly as much fun.

[BrooklynLR]

Original poster here. I just wanted to offer belated thanks to all who weighed in on the baby seat in the 88" question. Suffice it to say that I'm not going to endanger my infant for the sake of my hobby, which is why I'm asking questions now. And I do have our old trusty Toyota as a daily driver/baby transport. Your answers/philosophies/rants have yielded lots of food for thought, though, and I appreciate it.

[RoverForm]

not to add anymore fuel to the fire, but what do you think is the appropriate age for younger passengers?