View Full Version : 2.5 liter gm transplant....into a series 2a 109 for my business

03-18-2007, 02:27 AM
Looking to possibly transplant and 2.5 liter gm engine like what was in the Chevy s-10's from 90-97. Anyone have an idea of anyone who has done this before and the up and downsides of this possible transplant? I can't seem to find exactly what horse power this engine has.Ideas?


03-18-2007, 09:21 AM
Why not just get a factoryengine from rovers north. this way you will know that it is the proper engine and that it will fit and hook up to all of the fittings under the hood.

03-18-2007, 11:26 AM
A friend of mine has a roversnorth 2.25 engine and to be honest iisn't strong enough for the landscaping we do on the North Shore in Vancouver. Imagine San Francisco's streets and you then know what our streets are like. I have had 3 rovers before and know well what 2.25 L engines are like. But for real world applications I feel 2.25 just don't cut it,especilally with a loaded rear of soil or rocks on these streets here.
Besides better highway speeds would be nice too. I appreciate your feedback. :) To each their own...2.25 for traditionalists and other engines for realists I guess eh.

03-18-2007, 05:25 PM

One gas option...

03-18-2007, 05:30 PM

A diesel option....

03-18-2007, 05:31 PM
Good shop in the Pac-NW...


03-18-2007, 10:26 PM
I think those engines have the 60 degre or 2.8l type GM bolt pattern, different thatn the earlier 2.5l GM engines. Davis was making a run of those adapters-

Original Message -----
From: Davis Robert
To: scottys-conversion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [scottys-conversion] Digest Number 69

Hey guys:
I just got word that my new generation of adapters are
"in the oven". These new adapters along with a
ductile flywheel are being cast and will fit the later
GM 4 cylinder engines from 1983 10 1999 both FWD and
RWD. They also can have the starter boss on the right
or left side so those of you with a IIA can have the
starter opposite the drive shaft (on the left). This
won't work for the series III and the starter has to
remain on the right. I will still offer these in a
3.0 liter stroked out version like the earlier GM
counterparts. Those that have been holding out on a
conversion because of the cost, can now buy all the
parts from me to convert a Fiero or S-10 junkyard
engine to the series and not destroy the drive train
with too much torque, but still get our brick shaped
rides up to 70+ on the interstate with modern
performance. As always will drop in without and frame
or radiator mods and offer a Weber 2 barrel adapter
and GM non FI distributor.
More to come...

--- scottys-conversion@yahoogroups.com wrote:


Original Message -----
From: "Davis Robert" <rdavisinva@yahoo.com>
To: "Matt Nelson" <>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: 2.8 adapter to LR series tranny

> Matt:
> I plan to stop building complete engine conversions at
> the end of this year and sell a complete kit that
> someone can build themselves. The kit will be based
> on the later GM 4 cylinders (s10 and Fiero, etc).
> The are everywhere for $100 at a junkyard - that the
> Scotty's adapter won't fit, but my adapter will. Then
> I don't have to spend 24 - 40 hours building an engine
> that I make anout $10 or less an hour doing. I am now
> producing an Isuzu 2.8 or 3.1 turbo diesel conversion
> for Range Rover and Disco V8s that will be available
> as soon as I can finish the kick down linkage. I am
> also converting an 88" to a Perking Prema 2.0 liter
> TDI from an MG Miestro and putting the same engine
> into our MGB. Both run fine on used cooking oil...
> Do you still want to buy an adapter? Batch is due out
> soon.

And another possibility the 2.8l, this email from a fellow in Canada who made adapters for his series for the 2.8l:

----- Original Message -----
From: Marsha Schofield
To: Matt Nelson
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: 2.8 in LR

Hi Matt,So your looking at doing an engine swap. I can't remember if you have a lhd or rhd if you have a left hooker then sorry, without chopping the bulkhead then you have realistically two choices, the first being a 2.8 Chevy or any of it's later successors or perhaps the ford equivalent. The reason being they are both 60 degree blocks rather than the more standard 90 degree which is considerably wider and thus fouls the pitman arm on the side of the steering box. If you have a right hooker then the choice really opens up. The next issue to ponder would be gas or diesel and why. I'm sure you've already considered the obvious size, weight , power, rpm and water issues so I won't bore you with the details although I will say that the starter off the 2.8 gm engine is naff .( crapp, no good, a waste of space and above all bloody annoying!!!) In fact just one muddy hole and you'll never get that useless piece of crapp to turn over again unless you remove it, blast the moving parts with a garden hose, dry it then oil all the necessary parts before you reinstall. Since then I've changed the conversion to accept the 2.25 LR starter. So that leaves just one thing, have you any idea how much power and speed I am getting with this 2.8 ? Maybe you could hold off until we get together some time and I'll take you for a spin, I'm sure you'll be surprised, anyway I'll talk to you soon . Simon.
----- Original Message -----

03-19-2007, 02:39 AM
Yeah I am talking to Robert now about these adapter kits for the 2.5. :) That is why I am curious if anyone knows much of these engines and if there are any mods ie. cams reground etc that can get a little more out of them than the stock 100-120 hp. Nothing crazy,just a little more hp. gain I appreciate all you have written,informative forsure.

03-19-2007, 08:13 AM
I've never seen much for them that made any significant difference, a few HP here and there and a lot of $. If you are going to push a laden 109 around for business use I think I'd look into something different. Those GM 4cyls are great engines stock, the ones I've used have lasted forever but high performance wasn't their strong point.

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f104/2-5l-performance-upgrades-267483/ otoh:
The 2.8l swap that simon did with efi is really nice, I can give you his contact info off list if you want. There is also a performance of the 2.8l available-3.4l http://www.s-series.org/htm/tech/GMPerfParts/144-148.pdf

Quick History and Information about the GM 60&#176; V6
Disclaimer: This information is from GM resources. It is presented here for informative purposes only. GM and all related product identities, etc. are property of GM. If you find an error in this information, or have comments, please contact us.

The 2.8L 60&#176; V-6 Engine was designed by Chevrolet and introduced in 1980 in the X-car platforms. These included the front-wheel-drive (FWD) Buick Skylark, Chevrolet Citation, Oldsmobile Omega, and Pontiac Phoenix. It was designed to meet federal fuel economy standards, new emmisions laws, and to provide a suitable powerplant for smaller vehicles. Eventually, this engine found homes in Camaros, S-10 Blazers, S-15's, Fieros, Cimmarons, Centurys, Firebirds, Jeeps, Isuzus, and even Mercury Marine.
The 60&#176; V-6 engine's cylinders were offset 60&#176; from one another due to space limitations. Over the years, the 60&#176; V-6 engine has proven to be a reliable engine in many applications. It began as a 2.8L, then was changed to a 3.1L, and finally to the 3.4L displacement. Throughout the years, there have been a variety of motor mount , fuel pump location, ignition system, transmission mount, balance, fuel delivery system, oiling system, and other changes.
The evolution of the 60&#176; V-6 brought larger displacement and more sophisticated engineering. The engine was so extensively changed in 1987, that the new model was referred to as the "Generation II" engine. Improvements included aluminum cylinder heads with splayed intake and exhaust valves, improved intake porting, tighter operating clearances, distributorless ignition, a single serpentine belt drive system for accessories, and numerous engine appearance improvements. The Generation II Engine was only available in FWD vehicles.
In 1991, the 3.4 dual overhead cam (DOHC) with four valves per cylinder version was introduced. This engine design included major improvements, with a base horsepower rating of around 210.
There are many differences between the FWD, Mid-Mount, and RWD engines, besides the different mounting locations. The cooling systems, water pump location, cylinder heads, and intake manifolds are some of the major items that need to be taken into account if you are intending doing a direct swap.

A GM straight six might be a better route to take. But then you really get into exceeding the capabilities of the Series tranny.

03-19-2007, 09:46 AM
I have to admit, once upon a time, I had a Jeep Cherokee w/ the 2.8 V6. I managed to get 110k out of it before it cracked out the sidewall... the guys at the local shops were all surprised I'd gotten it that far, that they would only see them make it to 80k before they died.... it's really not a good engine, Jeep did a good thing when they tossed it and went w/ the 4.2 I6.

Instead of the 2.8, if you had your heart set on a V6, I'd go w/ the 4.3.... it's more like a 350 w/ two cylinders cut out.

But, you'll still be getting beyond the happy zone for the stock transmission.

03-19-2007, 10:37 AM
My experience with the 2.8 was pretty much exactly the opposite, I had several with over 200,000 on the clock and no great difficulties. I've seen quite a few others that had similar lifetimes. I still think it is on the small side for a 109 but so is the 2.5. An I6 like the Slant Six, 292 Chevy or 300 ford would be nice in a work truck 109.

03-19-2007, 11:52 AM
An inline six would be really nice. I had a 85' F 150 with the 4.9L (300) I6 and it would idle over just about anything. The torque from any I6 is going to be good at low revs but the engine would be very hard to fit in a series engine bay, you would definatly have to cut the front crossmember out and move it forward.

03-19-2007, 12:55 PM
The torque curve on the 4.9l is really nice- Somewhere I had a graph of it. Peaks really low and stays fairly flat. It definitely would take work to install, I've only seen one in a Rover before. If fitted to the series T case via a NP435 and an adapter it would be awesome. :)

03-19-2007, 01:59 PM
If you put in a 4 cylinder, you'll just be hating yourself after it's all done and you find the truck is still gutless. Put in a V8. Really. Don't listen to what anyone else says cause I've been down those roads and I ended up pulling it all out and putting in a real engine. I put an IH 345 in along with a warner box and dana tcase. It's not a great engine; too bulky. The power steering is awesome though. Now that I've had mine for 3 years, it's time to reconfigure. I'm putting the Series 5 door Wagon body on my '93 LWB chassis. My recommendations are: RR 4.6 and ZF autobox along with RR axles and disc brakes. 'Effin smoothest gearbox on the planet, and it's still all Rover.
OR, Ford 5.0 HO EFI with warner t-18/19 with Dana 300 t case. Recommend 4.10 gears in the axles. OR 4.3 V6 and Scottys adapter to standard Rover gearbox.
You will likely have to widen slightly the bulkhead, but that's not too much work.

03-19-2007, 02:56 PM
Ford 5.0 HO EFI with warner t-18/19 with Dana 300 t case.

Dana 300 is central output, how will you accomidate that with passengerr offset diffs? it probably would be ok I guess-there are plenty of TLC's out there with np205's.

03-19-2007, 07:10 PM
The 4.3 has the same bell housing bolt pattern as a small block chebby if i remember correctly, and the 2.5L has the small block pattern as well. Has anyone confirmed this or tried it? If and when my 2.25 gives up the ghost i want to put a 4.3 V6 in. If that adapter for the 2.25 works it may be the way to go, just got to watch the accelerator!

03-19-2007, 07:28 PM
4.3l gas v6 definitely has the 350 aka 90 degree bolt pattern. the 2.5 has the 90 degree or 60 degree pattern depending on usage/date.

4.3 info:

I think I'd swap in a GM tranny with it though. Maybe upgrade the diffs to toyota ones with bits from Seriestrek.com and go to 4.10 diffs.

I know the 4.3 has been put in series Rovers before, so has the 225 V6. Half the fun with rovers are all the different engines people use in them for re-powers. Everyone has their own idea what might be best for their uses. They don't just throw in the ubiquitous 350 SBC.

03-19-2007, 09:13 PM
This is all great reading but I don't have ****e loads of cash to spare(enough for a 2.5 rebuild and adapter kit basically) and I am not that mechanically inclined to do some of these engine sawps you are all talking of. The 2.5 looked good as it is a pretty simple drop in job with the adapter plate,etc. Any other engines that are a basic drop with with an adapter plate out there that someone selss or is it just the 2.5 GM?

03-20-2007, 08:13 AM
With scotties adapters you can "drop in" anything that has the same bolt pattern as a 250- chances are though that whatever you put in will exceed the strength of your transmission. I think that Davis figures they are good for 120 hp, not sure of the torque.

Adapters are also available for the Rover/Buick V8s, they are no powerhouses really but they usually produce more HP than the Tranny should take. A good friend of mine has a 3.5 from a SD1 in his lightweight. He has used it lots, many miles and had no issues- go figure. He is NOT The type of guy who is easy on his stuff. Then again it is a lightweight and not a 109.

Jim Young produces the adapters to "drop in" the Mercedes diesels. I doubt the NA 4cyl will be anything of an improvement over your current 2.25. Drop him an email though to discuss it though: pbs@mohawk.net

Nothing is really a "drop in" proposition- they all entail fabrication and other work that might not be apparent initially.

The Iron Duke 2.5 might be the best option for you, check into the other options out there and then decide for yourself based on your needs.

03-20-2007, 12:22 PM
One thing i will note is be careful with a Diesel conversion in a Rover based in British Columbia. If you go that route, check with Transport Canada especially the laws for BC (you still have AirCare i assume) to see if they will have a problem if you go from Gas to Diesel, When i lived there, this was a problem. Might have changed now.

What ever you do go for, I do not think the little 2.25 is an option. the North Shore has some real killer hills and you will need the torque/ power especially if your hauling a trailer. I had a Land Cruiser BJ42 and a few of those hills (Like the one to Cypress Mountain) my top speed was only about 25-35 KMH and that was a 3b Diesel. (tired though) my F150 with the 300 inline six and 4 speed made short work of the same drive.
Check out with the guys at http://www.roverlanders.bc.ca/ They might have some other ideas for you and maybe some local people.

03-20-2007, 02:56 PM
I originally put a post like my original one here on roverlanders.com but I didn't get any responses so I assume they all have 2.25's. Yeah the 2.5 may be the best overall for parts availability and a little more hp just to help out the rover. I am still searching the net for ideas and options out there so we'll see how it goes. I will contact the guy above that has the adapters for the Mercedes conversion. thanks