Bad Starter?

[Winston-Rover]

I have a '71 Series IIa. I just replaced alternator and tried to start the engine and the battery died. I replaced the battery and now when I try to start it I just get a click at the solenoid. I'm getting power to the starter side of the solenoid when the key is turned, but the starter isn't working. Is my starter toast?? did I kill it while trying to start the engine with a bad battery? is there anything else I should consider checking? is it possible the new alternator is bad?

[Jeff Aronson]

Starter Problems

Hooking up a new alternator should not affect the starter; this sounds coincidental.

The starter draws a lot of current directly from the battery, so let's go back to your new battery. Have you had it tested under load? Do you know it's delivering the amperage that's claimed? If not, you'll get only a "click" at the starter. If you have a battery tester, it should tell you if the battery is working as claimed. Even new ones can be bad at times.

Have you tried starting the car with another battery? If you get the same result, then you need to look at the starter ground cable. If it's not grounded correctly, from the starter to the frame, then you'll just get the click. The other ground is from the battery to the battery box, or better yet, buy a ground wire and hook it from the battery post to the engine, right at the oil filler neck.

If the grounds are fine, then the solenoid is the most likely candidate. You can remove it from the starter and clean it up. It's just a sort of relay.

Was the starter quite old? Was it slow to turn before, or did it crank at a healthy pace? If so, then the starter probably needs a rebuild, or just install another starter. If you have a Series III starter [the smaller size], then you can just unbolt and replace from under the car. If you have the longer Series II-A starter, then you'll need to drop the exhaust header pipe first to get room to move the starter.

Of course, if you have a II-A and a crank, you can crank start it .

Good luck,

Jeff

[LaneRover]

It does sound like you have a dead starter - or at least a starter with a dead spot. Either way it will have to come out.

I have found that even with my IIA I can get the starter out without dropping the exhaust downpipe. It does involve turning the the steering all the way in one direction to do one thing and then all the way in the other direction to drop the starter. It is not a straight drop down, the starter needs to be pulled out and turned this way and that before coming down.

Of course I cannot guarantee that I don't have a smaller series III starter in my IIA. But I believe mine is of the original type.

Good luck!

LaneRover

[Winston-Rover]

I tested the voltage on the battery and I'm getting about 12.7v. It's actually the second new battery, I thought the first on was bad so I returned it. I guess it's possible that both could be bad. I also tried jumping the battery from my other car and got the same click at the solenoid. Can you jump a bad battery??

the ground seems to be good - both the engine and the starter are grounded (I checked this with a test light to the engine and starter and the positive end of the battery).

I'll try cleaning up the solenoid tonight. although it looks pretty new (cleanest part on the truck aside from the new battery and alternator). I am getting juice to the starter cable side of the solenoid when the key is in the start position.

the starter seemed fine before this. I have the longer starter, so I have to drop the exhaust pipe (found that out after unbolting the starter and then couldn't go anywhere with it). is there a way to test the starter in place?

[Tim Smith]

Wildly guessing here...

I assume you had an alternator (not generator) before putting in the new alternator. If so, did you do the conversion from positive earth to negative? Could you have switched it on the battery by mistake?

If this isn't it, then check or just add more grounds to your truck. I can't believe the started decided to die just when you switched your alternator out.

Good luck!

[bamarover]

Dead spot experience

Our IIA did this:
Drove up to a house to cut the grass. Got ready to leave, engine would not turn over, no click or sound from the starter, nothing. New gel cell battery, so if dead, we had a significant drain on it . Tried to jump it, could not get a peep (not even a click like yours is doing) out of it. Called my 82yo dad. He said seems like you got a dead spot on your starter". Rock the truck with it in gear and see what happens. Rocked it hard...... several times. Voila! Cranked right up. He told me if it happens a gain to get the starter rebuilt, but it has not.

Just an easy thing to try...... and free.

Greg

[galen216]

Our IIA did this:
Drove up to a house to cut the grass. Got ready to leave, engine would not turn over, no click or sound from the starter, nothing. New gel cell battery, so if dead, we had a significant drain on it . Tried to jump it, could not get a peep (not even a click like yours is doing) out of it. Called my 82yo dad. He said seems like you got a dead spot on your starter". Rock the truck with it in gear and see what happens. Rocked it hard...... several times. Voila! Cranked right up. He told me if it happens a gain to get the starter rebuilt, but it has not.

Just an easy thing to try...... and free.

Greg

x2, I am using this method right now for a dead spot on my starter.

[galen216]

Of course, if you have a II-A and a crank, you can crank start it .

Do NADA S3's not have a crank? Mine does, but of course it's a UK truck.

[Winston-Rover]

Our IIA did this:
Drove up to a house to cut the grass. Got ready to leave, engine would not turn over, no click or sound from the starter, nothing. New gel cell battery, so if dead, we had a significant drain on it . Tried to jump it, could not get a peep (not even a click like yours is doing) out of it. Called my 82yo dad. He said seems like you got a dead spot on your starter". Rock the truck with it in gear and see what happens. Rocked it hard...... several times. Voila! Cranked right up. He told me if it happens a gain to get the starter rebuilt, but it has not.

Just an easy thing to try...... and free.

Greg

my brother said to do the same thing with rocking it. only problem is I have it on jack stands right now to replace the rear wheel bearing seals and brakes. I guess I should focus on getting one thing fixed at a time!

I plan on getting the wheels back on this weekend. afterward I'll see if I can get the starter working again.

I tried to use the crank but it's not so easy... or maybe I'm doing it wrong. maybe after a tune up the hand crank will work better.

anyone know how I can test the starter without removing it? I'd rather not pull off the exhaust pipe at the manifold.

[JimCT]

use a hammer....

Give it a healthy wack with a good sized hammer. Moving the vehicle doesn't move a dead spot in the starter, it only helps if you are missing teeth on the flywheel. Not unusal for a Lucas product to need a good beating.

[I Leak Oil]

Go direct from your battery to your starter. This will bypass everything inbetween and tell you it's the battery or starter or if it works it's something in between. Bad battery leads or connections are tough to see if they are bad and usually need to be proven out.
Jason T.

[Jeff Aronson]

Cranks and Starters

Series III's in the US market came without the hole in the bumper for the crank. I don't even think they supplied a crank with the car!

Cranking is not easy work and you need to exercise caution. When you pull up and clockwise on the crank, pull sharply and release your hand from the crank upon completing the pull. You don't want it to back off on your hand - something will break!

Also, the car needs to be in good tune in order for cranking to work. It worked best when the engine is cool. Pump the throttle a couple of time and pull out the choke. Set the hand throttle up a couple of notches, and then spin. You need to have your car timed right and the ignition [points, rotor, cap, wires] need to send out a good spark. Check a plug and make certain that they're clean, too.

I've rocked a car in gear to find another spot on the flywheel and that has worked. My TR-7's starter started to act up, too, so I struck it firmly with a breaker bar. Sure enough, it worked fine. That "solution" has worked a couple of times.

Good luck!

Jeff

[jp-]

Give it a healthy wack with a good sized hammer. Moving the vehicle doesn't move a dead spot in the starter, it only helps if you are missing teeth on the flywheel. Not unusal for a Lucas product to need a good beating.

I agree with Jim. Use a hammer.

Rocking the truck should make absolutely no difference, as the starter is not engaged until the solenoid makes it fire. In other words, you aren't rotating the starter. If you were, the starter would be grinding the whole time the engine was running.

[LaneRover]

Though officially rocking the vehicle is not supposed to work with a dead starter because you are not moving the starter itself, it has worked for me in the past. It is kind of like believing in either creationism or evolution, at some point in the process there is a bit of, "Something magic happens".

LaneRover

[Winston-Rover]

okay, I got the starter to work this weekend by tapping on it with a hammer. it was still spinning really slowly - but the engine started after a few tries. does this mean it needs replaced? or should I try rebuilding it. how hard is it to rebuild? any tricks to rebuilding a starter?

also after a great deal of struggling I finally got it start with the crank handle!!! should be easier after the tune-up.

thanks to everyone!