U Joint replacement

[Cutter]

I just got in a pair of U joints for my rear driveshaft on my SIII 109. I need to pull the shaft and replace the current ones as they've started to make some noise and I noticed some of the rubber seals are torn. Any words of wisdom on this job before I jump in?

My friend and former rover owner told me that parabolics lead to this condition due to the raised height changing the shaft angle. Is there something that can be done to alleviate this other than going back to stock, or is this going to happen again eventually?

Hoping that whatever failure in the u joints isn't damaging the shaft at all as they aren't easy to come by for a 2.6 powered rig

[SafeAirOne]

Well, you can make sure that you use quality u-joints with grease (zerk) fittings and keep them lubricated. Avoid ones without the zerk fittings.

[Cutter]

I bought the genuine part ones from our host, assuming they would be the best. Is this something I can do in an hour or two based on past experience? I was hoping to swap them out in the morning before a trip. It seems relatively straight forward, but I've done enough on my truck to know quick jobs can eat up days some how...

[Terrys]

I tend to doubt going to parabolics resulted in the UJ's demise.
An Hr is plenty of time IF you have a good U joint tool (fancy C clamp, basically) Long driveshafts are tricky to do by yourself if you're doing it the old, sockets and bench vise method. Sometimes it's nice to have a helper just holding up the other end.
One suggestion, take the zerk out while you're assembling it, so moving the yoke back and forth doesn't pull needles out of position from the vacuum.

[Cutter]

Ahh special tools! Well i wont be using that... I was thinking of dropping the whole shaft and doing it on a bench. Will be certain to chock the wheels.

[stomper]

Took me 4 hours to replace one U-joint. Getting the drive shaft out was the easy part, but the prior owner didn't know that you could grease the u-joints, and they were siezed into the yokes.

Good luck, and pray to the rover Gods that it pops together easily.

[thixon]

If they're seized, then put the smoke wrench to 'em. You're tossing the old ones, so heating wont matter.

If you're going the socket/vice/hammer method and its your first time, you won't finish in an hour. You'll also be good an ticked off by the time your done if you hurry through it.

I think your buddy is referring to switching springs on the same u-joints you were using with the old springs.

[TeriAnn]

I just got in a pair of U joints for my rear driveshaft on my SIII 109. I need to pull the shaft and replace the current ones as they've started to make some noise and I noticed some of the rubber seals are torn. Any words of wisdom on this job before I jump in?

A few words:

1. U joints are considered to be consumable items. They wear out and need replacing on occasion. They are something you check for wear every so often & replace when they are no longer tight.

2. If you don't replace U joints fairly frequently and have a press they can be a bitch to remove. Some drop right out and some you fight for hours as you renew your cuss word vocabulary. However this is something automotive machine shops can do quickly and easily for not much money. If you decide to do the job yourself and decide to take the end off the slip joint, mark both sides of the slip joint so the yolk orientation remains the same when you reassemble it. Also when you bolt the shaft back into the truck, recheck the tightness on the bolts after a few hours of driving (maybe the following weekend) just to verify that the bolts are tight.

After doing a few I decided that this is a job I don't do often enough to maintain proficiency so I farm it out to a local automotive machine shop. I make an appointment, drop the shaft off, do some shopping and pick the shaft with the new U joints up on the way home.

3. There is nothing special about Genuine LR U joints. The factory buys them from a manufacturer who puts the U joints in a LR package instead of their own brand box. There are multiple good brands out there and a full service auto parts store with a automotive machine shop out back usually carries high quality U joints. Just ask for the best brand they carry and make sure it is a greasable type.

4. The Land Rover factory recommends that Series U joints and tie rod ends be greased every 4,000 miles. It is also a good idea to regrease the joints after a water crossing just to chase any water out that seeped into the joints. Do the maintenance and you will maximize U joint life. Don't forget some grease on the slip joint but don't over pack it.

[thixon]

T/A brought up a good point here, that we all sometimes forget. Sometimes it just not worth doing on your own. I seem to forget that one a lot.

A shop will probably charge you less than $50 to replace both.

[I Leak Oil]

Sometimes changing the shaft angle will hasten the demise of an already worn or wearing U-Joint. The needles wear in the same place all the time, by changing the shaft angle you can change the wear pattern, causing them to fail quicker. The parabolics themselves aren't necessarily harmful. Afterall you're only lifting the truck an inch or so (if I remember right it's about 2 1/2 degree change on an 88"). An inch of lift over the length of the shaft doesn't translate into such an acute angle that would be cause for concern.
As others have said, get quality joints and grease them regularly. Bringing it to a shop is an option but if you've never changed one you should learn incase you need to someday. There's nothing wrong with expanding your skill set!:thumb-up:

[Cutter]

Well upon learning the schedule of my 8 month old (in a different vehicle) required a prompt departure and return time I decided to tempt fate and make the 2 hr highway rnd trip without replacing them. Definitely getting some feeling from the back end upon our return. My wife who was driving behind me said my back right tire was slightly wobbling, which I could feel above a certain speed (can't say what, speedo doesn't work). This leads me to believe that the wheel bearing is going too. Wee! Just got the truck back from 10 months in the shop, glad to see there's plenty left for me to tend to....

Back to the U joint, I'm going to try my hand at it now, I'll probably tackle that, and then the wheel bearings if that is what it ends up being, I suppose the tire could be mounted off or imbalanced but I doubt it, I don't think its been off since I got the truck and it was fine before.

[Cutter]

I think your buddy is referring to switching springs on the same u-joints you were using with the old springs.

I think this is exactly what he meant and is the case, the PO put the springs on and probably didn't swap out the u joints.

[LR Max]

First try to do it yourself. Best way is with a vice and a couple of sockets. Use the sockets to push around the caps once you've removed the C-clips.

Watch out, if the thing doesn't budge, STOP. You WILL break the vice!!! Yes, I've been present when this happens. The people at Advance Auto get really upset with you when you break their vice.

So your u-joints are in there good. Find a driveshaft shop and have them replace it. Having the driveshaft shop do the work is cheaper than replacing a broken vice...and your work gets done. Also get them to balance said driveshaft while they are at it.

[I Leak Oil]

Wow Max, must have been one wimpy vice! If it's that stuck you can put you oversize socket, open end up, on the ground or other solid surface, put the drive shaft yoke over it so the cap will fall into it, and give the top cap a quick burst with the air hammer. The quick shock load should be enough to break the rust bond free.

[LR Max]

Wow Max, must have been one wimpy vice! If it's that stuck you can put you oversize socket, open end up, on the ground or other solid surface, put the drive shaft yoke over it so the cap will fall into it, and give the top cap a quick burst with the air hammer. The quick shock load should be enough to break the rust bond free.

Actually I was assisting a u-joint replacement for the front axle out of an old bronco. Brother, they did not want to move!!! The guy I was with decided we needed to put a breaker bar on the vice handle. Yes...something broke. The casting on the vice!!

The people at Advance auto told us to leave, except they used many discouraging words. Many which I shouldn't repeat here.

Shop down the road said they would replace both for $35. Price was right :thumb-up:.

So that is why I say if you can't get it done, then forget it. Take it to a shop and have them do it. No reason to destroy your own equipment...or get banned from the auto parts store.

[I Leak Oil]

I worship you Max! Not everyone can say they've been banned from Advanced Auto! Those stores suck...

[SafeAirOne]

I worship you Max! Not everyone can say they've been banned from Advanced Auto! Those stores suck...

I'm on a self-imposed ban from Advance Auto.

Funny, I was thinking---they were probably using a vise that they bought at Advance Auto. They must be really angry about the breakage since they can't order another one because they dont know the year, make and model vehicle that it came from.

[TJR]

U joints used to be pain to do since I only decent vise I had that would open far enough to use sockets etc. was an old blacksmoth type vise. Plenty strong but when open real wide the jaws faces were no longer parallel. SO.. I borrowed this tool

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-7249-Ball-Joint-Service/dp/B0002SRGXY

from a friend. I used it once and then bought my own. ( I piad at least 20% more 10+ years ago from local Autoparts store.) . UJ's have been a snap ever since. IT's simple to used and super strong.

..Talbot

[LaneRover]

I'm on a self-imposed ban from Advance Auto.

Funny, I was thinking---they were probably using a vise that they bought at Advance Auto. They must be really angry about the breakage since they can't order another one because they dont know the year, make and model vehicle that it came from.

Nice!

[Cutter]

I successfully swapped out the u joint on the sliding yoke end, it wasn't too bad but definitely took a few hours...glad I waited. Once I got one cap out the other didn't want to go back in straight to be pushed out the other side. I think I shaved a tiny slice off of the inner yoke way at the start pressing it in and getting it aligned which is unfortunate but the joint is in and quite smooth. Now that I understand how it works and is done, I think I'll take the other end to the shop down the street and see how much they want to pop it and replace. If too much or they aren't able, I'll dedicate the time to do that end, hopefully it will proceed quicker.

[Cutter]

well it certainly goes faster the second time! thanks for all the comments. I unfortunately dislodged a needle bearing on one of the cups not sure how....:mad:. So I ordered another u joint and will start over as I'm pretty sure I bent the bugger when I was pressing it in. Knew something was wrong when it wouldn't seat all the way.

Ah learning on rovers is fun, frustrating and not an inexpensive hobby. I took pictures of the whole process I went through so I might post for other beginners such as myself, up until that last 5 minutes it was easy and took 30 minutes to pop the old ones, clean and seat the new ones.

[I Leak Oil]

Ata boy!:thumb-up:

[albersj51]

A write up would be great for those of us not familiar with it!!

[Terrys]

Next one you do, pack the cups with wheel bearing grease before you fit them. That will keep the needles in position. That's why I said to take the zerk out first; so as you're pressing them in, the grease is forced out the zerk fitting hole.

[Cutter]

Next one you do, pack the cups with wheel bearing grease before you fit them. That will keep the needles in position. That's why I said to take the zerk out first; so as you're pressing them in, the grease is forced out the zerk fitting hole.

I actually did, I filled them up about 2/3, enough that I got happy play doh jets of grease out the hole. I think I just happened to knock it hard enough to dislodge one. the yokes are slightly tapered so when I was pressing I had to tap things around to make sure they were going in straight. When I have a chance I'll post the process, probably not tonight.

[Cutter]

Here's my verbose and perhaps too detailed write up. I did the removal once the hard way and once the easy way. The hard way (figuring out the easy way but with hammers and cursing) took 2 hours to pull one U joint. The easy way took 10-15 minutes. This of course will depend on the condition of the joints as well; mine were maintained decently so they weren't seized or rusted. Since the green bible has a less than helpful series of instructions, here's my brief walk through; I am a complete newbie to rovers and most automotive mechanical work, so this is what I would have liked to see before I started. I'll assume starting with the complete axle on the bench. Tools I used, note that the U joints are different sizes for the different years, my 74 109 has the largest size:


vice or press of some sort, with around 7" opening
circlip remover or needle nose if you are a masochist like me
a socket with an outside diameter that will fit within the yoke races- a 3/4" fit well on mine
a socket large enough to accept the bearing cap (the shiny bit-if you are lucky- on the ends of each arm of the spider - the + shaped bit) inside it- 1- 1/16" worked here
some hammers just in case things start taking too long
some wheel bearing grease
pliers or a 5/16 socket to pull the grease fittings


http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/tools.jpeg

The green bible does a decent job describing the removal of the sliding member, and removal of the circlips/grease fitting. Right at step 8 where things get interesting it bails out and says tap the yoke to eject the bearing cups. Proper.

1. Start with the sliding member end as it is smaller and easier to work with the first time around. Open up your vice/press and position the smaller socket on one side of the joint and the larger on the other, ensuring that the bearing cap will clearly slide into the socket when pushed through. These photos show the joint already half apart, it made for an easier to see things but is the same process.

http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1004_2.jpg


note that the yoke is angled and therefore the larger socket is not parallel to the u-joint. I was able to use a spacer to straighten this out but its not shown here. It helps to have everything aligned to get things in/out straight, though it takes care of itself once its in a ways.


2. Slowly tighten the vice and the caps/spider should start to slide out, if if binds or the resistance changes, back off and make sure everything is straight. I pushed until the cap being pushed inward was almost out but still seated in the way. On my joint, that bearing cap had to be pushed back out the other way, on others it may be possible to free it from within the yoke arms, not sure.

3. Since these are destined for the bin, I used a vice to clamp down on the cap that was 3/4 of the way out and pulled it free spinning back and forth.

http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1007_2.jpg

4. Place the smaller socket into the yoke where the cap was just removed, and back into the press, pushing against the spider so the other cap backs out until the spider hits the inner yoke. Then you should be able to slide the spider back out of the cap and remove from it from the yoke, separating the joint halves. I then pushed the cap back in and out the interior of the yoke arm.

http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1012_2.jpg
and
http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1014_2.jpg
spider out, and
http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1021_2.jpg
pushing it all the way back through

5. You probably should take note of the orientation of the yokes as you take them apart so when they are reassembled the go back the same way. Repeat the above on the other axis of the joint. Here's a shot of the old wooly spider next the new replacement, with the new and old caps in the background

http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1029_2.jpg

6. I dumped the yokes in degreaser and cleaned things up, be sure to scrape out the gunk from the circlip grooves. some will repaint etc but I prefer the natural protection of 90w oil that is constantly sprayed around the undercarriage.

http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1030_2.jpg

nice and clean

http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1033_2.jpg

7. Reassembly is pretty much the same process in reverse. As mentioned in this thread earlier by Terrys, be sure to put a good glob of grease into each cap and make sure all the needle bearing are seated properly- and leave the grease fitting off. Put the spider into the yoke arms, with the hole for the grease fitting facing away from the flange. Put the two caps in position and press them in, ensuring they are going in straight. It may be easier to do one at a time to ensure they are straight, but you'll have to deal with the angled yoke side.

http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1037_2.jpg

8. Go slow and if you encounter any change in resistance stop and check that you haven't dislodged a needle bearing- I did despite gobs of grease because I banged the thing accidentally and bent the needle pressing. You shouldn't feel any grating or resistance when the joint is all seated, if you do something probably isn't right.

9. only push until the cap reaches the inner edge of the circlip groove, otherwise you have to push it back in the other direction which is time better spent on the internet.

http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/IMG_1047_2.jpg

10.Repeat this on the other caps and voila, a new U joint.

http://kaijustudios.com/cutter/ujoint-replacement/propshaft_ujoint1.jpg

[stomper]

Have you ever thought about writing a section for the Rovers North News? Great write-up! Coincidently, I happened upon a similar write-up on U-joint replacements in an old issue of Land Rover Enthusiast last night. I honestly feel yours is better than the published version. :thumb-up::thumb-up:

[Cutter]

Ha thanks but I think I need a few years wrenching before I qualify. Hopefully the next guy in my shoes will search and find this and it will be of some use. Got the driveshaft in yesterday am and it is great, no more noise from the joints when coming to a stop.

[Hawaii_SIII]

I've started replacing my U joints. Thanks cutter for posting the great pictures and step by step description.

[matthamilton]

Great write-up!!!!

[Revtor]

Nice, thanks!

[antichrist]

This post will answer your questions as far as pointers goes. It includes part numbers also, though that won't apply since you already have the u-joints in hand.
http://landroverforums.com/forum/general-tech-help-8/propshaft-rebuild-29302/#post164811
It's directed to the DII DC propshafts, but applies all Rover cardan type propshafts, just ignore the DC specifics.

Oops, just saw that this was actually a resurect thread. Oh well, hopefully the link will be of use to someone.