Power Steering: Any DIYs? Worth the effort?

[NC Rover]

I'm tinkering with the idea of converting my Series IIa to power steering. However the problem lies with who to ask information about this. The body and engine (2.5L) are from a Series IIa. However my transmission and transfer case (LT77 & LT230) are from a Defender. The axles and suspension are also from a Defender, sitting on a galvanized chassis.

So with that said, anyone have any tips/ideas on where I could go with this?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/W8kbrder/Land%20Rover/IMG_0926.jpg

[LaneRover]

Check out Terri Ann's very informative site.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/PowerSteering.htm

Thats the power steering link, but there is a lot more info on her site.

[KevinNY]

It isn't hard on a leafer but the coil chassis makes it much more difficult. I have a designa coil chassis 88 with power steering but the solution was quite involved including cutting out the front chassis member and fabbing a new one that sits further forward and a new radiator panel support.

[bbrigman]

Saw them just last week putting unit in an 88.
Tole me price was as yet tbd
Brian

[greenmeanie]

As your truck is a hybrid we'd need a few pictures. TAW's site shows PS install on a leaf sprung series which may not be applicable on your truck if it has Defender axles as the steering linkage is different. Then again, if you have series manual steering the linkage may have been altered to work.

Post some pictures of your truck showing the steering bars and the steering relay. Also post some pictures of the inside of the engine bay and the inside of the wheelarch on the driver's side. That will let us see what room you have to play with.

[NC Rover]

It isn't hard on a leafer but the coil chassis makes it much more difficult. I have a designa coil chassis 88 with power steering but the solution was quite involved including cutting out the front chassis member and fabbing a new one that sits further forward and a new radiator panel support.

Yes that does sound involved. Would it be possible to provide me with some pictures of your setup? Thanks!

[NC Rover]

Saw them just last week putting unit in an 88.
Tole me price was as yet tbd
Brian

I would be curious to see what the total price turns out to be. Also I'd like to know what power steering unit they went with?

[TeriAnn]

I would be curious to see what the total price turns out to be. Also I'd like to know what power steering unit they went with?

Right now the Range Rover P-38 is considered to be the hot set up. The P-38 is a good strong box that doesn't seem to leak. You can use the stock steering arm and lower steering shaft. Easier than dealing with the old stand by hard to find Scout II power steering box.

The hard part with a 2.25L engine is mounting the power steering pump. One of the military 2 belt crank shaft pulleys comes in very handy.

As an Alternative Heystee Automotive Components offers a complete power steering kit that uses a ram. This kind of conversion has been popular in Europe for decades.

[tuko]

I've been watching this thread for some time as I also plan to convert my series 3 Hybrid to power steering. Searching the internet has not produced any good or any results for P38 power steering boxes on a Series vehicle but I can see the advantages to having a power steering box bolted to the outside of the frame rail and it being Land Rover parts.

The plan that I have brewing is to get a P38 power steering box (ANR3242 or ANR5320 - RHD), then use a Defender steering column with Defender steering linkage to hook everything up. As for the drag link, I'm still looking but I'm thinking along the lines that having a Defender front axle, it I believe is the same width as a P38 front axle. So if that is true I should be able to use a P38 drag link to couple the steering to the front hub.

But with that said, Kevin have you've been able to sort out any pictures that have been requested? Seeing that you have the same frame as I have, it would be beneficial to see what you have done, even if it is LHD.

Also it has been mentioned on several occasions that Timm Cooper has been using the P38 box with success for some time now....But it appears to be only word of mouth, no pictures or write ups to be found anywheres. :confused: Is there anyone here that can point us who want to do this conversion in the right direction?


Cheers,
Todd.

[LR Max]

I guess I'll chime in.

So I got my rover converted to Power Steering about 4 years ago. My stock steering essentially blew up and I figured for the price of all new steering, I could do with power steering. You know, move forward rather than sideways.

Well, the guy who did my install was a COMPLETE HACK. So up until about a month ago I had all kinds of problems. Still, a semi-working power steering system turned out to still be SIGNIFICANTLY better than the manual steering...on a good day.

So now I've gotten my steering system re-worked and a new pump put on. I've still got some air bubble issues but other than that, it is COMPLETELY AWESOME. Seriously, I live in Atlanta. All parking areas are tiny and difficult to work in unless you drive a Smart or something else dismally dismal. With the power steering I can whip in and out of any spot anywhere, no problem.

[TeriAnn]

Also it has been mentioned on several occasions that Timm Cooper has been using the P38 box with success for some time now....But it appears to be only word of mouth, no pictures or write ups to be found anywheres. :confused: Is there anyone here that can point us who want to do this conversion in the right direction?


I need to get a set of conversion pictures before I farther document the box on my power steering conversion web page. The process is the same as for the Scout II steering box conversion I have documented except that you use the P38 steering box, lower steering shaft and pitman arm.

[mongoswede]

I'll muddle out into this one and please point out the error of my thoughts:

Is this conversion any more complicated than attaching a power steering pump to the outside of the front left frame rail and attaching the appropriate steering arm? Mount a pump, some lines, and steering shaft?

I suppose I've simplified things as it does require a bit of cutting, drilling, welding, ujoint and steering shaft selection etc. fab a bracker for the power steering pump and choose a belt....I guess things could get tricky if the engine bay is tight.

pick away :D


I'll note that my hybrid consists of a shortened disco chassis and already has the mounting point for the power steering so its all easy. I looked at the engine bay on my 109 with the stock chassis and it looks like the pump would fit but require some inner fender mods.

[KevinNY]

It is very important to point out the difference between adding PS to a leaf sprung series chassis vs. a coil conversion chassis like a Designa brand. I can not speak of the conversion on a cut dowm disco or classic chassi. Teri and others have well documented the standard conversion on a series truck. The coil suspension mountings complicate things on a Designa chassis because because of the coil buckets on the frame and the pan hard rod bracket. The solution that Matt Browne at Overland Engineering came up with was to cut out the front crossmember and weld a new one he made up further forward and then fab a structural apron to support the breakfast while keeping everything inside the body.

[junkyddog11]

these are photos of the P38 box on a leaf sprung rig. Not sure of the relevance as it will not work on a coiler. The box can be hidden completely behind the radiator support. I have more photo's of the completed install that I can't find right now.........

[junkyddog11]

A couple more photos of the Goats install. Used an RRC PAS pump and box. The alternator bracket design was borrowed from Ike Goss at Pangolin 4x4 and differed in that the alternator was moved forward to use the front part of the double pulley.
Note; For normal alternator conversions/relocations, I buy the bracket from Ike :thumb-up:
...and in an odd twist of fate, due to the Goats engine conversion, I have the pictured PAS pump installed on another build using a P38 box on a leafer, actually the one in the last post.

[Le Shed]

I am just at the end of doing this to my S3 109 SW with 200TDI,LT77,LT230
I used the following parts.
P38A Steering box
P38A intermediate column
P38 hoses (modded to fit).
P38 Rerservoir and bracket
200TDI PS pump. Type that uses a banjo bolt for high side
Defender upper steering column. Outer tube is modded with top of old column for needle bearing. Shortened and resplined to accept Series wheel and so that trim fits.
Custom tie rod as it is a lot further between the swivel bracket and the new P38 pitman arm.
Custom 3/8" plate that goes on outside of frame and then uses tubes for stengthening the 1/2" bolts that hold it to the frame. The two upper bolts hold the box to the plate. The lower front bolt screws into the tapped hole in the plate and the side of the frame. The lower aft bolt goes all the way through the frame, is also tubed, and secured on the inside of the frame. The tubes were done so that they were pushed through from the outside but butted up agains the frame on the inboard inside. Did not have to weld anything. Once all 6 1/2" bolts are tight the plate or box are not going anywhere.
An oddity of the P38 box is that when the box is centred the pitman arm is about 10-15 degrees towards the outside. The geometry is close but you will have more turns going right than left. This is normal.
The pump is fitted to the proper 200TDI plate and bracket. My 2.5 petrol has the bracket on it too.
I have a load of photos and sketches I can send you to make my explanation clearer. Beware this is not a cheap project even when you know all the pitfalls. One thing to remember is that when you make a modification at one end it goes down the line and seems to never stop. I do think this is worth doing. I have heard that PAS will break the swivel stops so you should also upgrade the bolts for them.
Good luck
Bill B

[tuko]

WOW, thanks for the replies. :thumb-up:

Bill B has made one comment that warrants an immediate reply, "One thing to remember is that when you make a modification at one end it goes down the line and seems to never stop."........over 10 years ownership of this particular landy, one complete strip down, countless mods every summer, and the dreams/plans/ideas still continue to wreck havoc in my head. Oh and wreck havoc on the wallet. :D

My hybrid is like Kevin's purpose built on a Designa Coil Spring Chassis with the only difference of it being RHD. I can see the problems that you had Kevin with the Defender type PS box on the inside of the frame rail. But if you were jump over that for a minute, I'm wondering how much of an issue was the spring/turret mount? It looks tight in one of your pictures but I can't see if you had to use an angle grinder to do some trimming?

Matt many thanks for the pictures, they clearly showed me an issue that I was totally unaware of, the 4 mounting bolts spacing is wider that the depth of the frame rail. Custom fabrication is a favorite pass time for me so this is a challenge I'm looking forward to.

Bill, many thanks for the detailed description of your build. I'll send you a PM with my email address thats accepts 50mb emails (for images)

Two years ago I converted my landy to diesel, particularly a 300Di, a Defender 300Tdi without the turbo. Thanks to the surpintine belt I kept the power steering pump, ran two hoses to the PS fluid holder in front of the radiator. It basically circulates the fluid back and forth and it saved me the trouble of having to size/match up a serpentine belt to fit without the PS pump. With that said, thats one part of the build that I don't have to worry too much about.

Once again, many thanks for the pictures, descriptions, tips, and suggestions they have proved to be a gold mine of information.


Cheers,
Todd.

[tuko]

I should have added in my reply to Kevin, I see that the brake lines will need moving also. I never did like where they were placed and will be moving them to behind the front coils, hopefully in a place where they won't be in dangers way.

Here is a recent picture when I was out playing with some friends. The front brake lines are +2" and the mount on the frame was lowered 2" and still they are fully extended and exposed.:mad:

http://www.tukojack.com/blogggallery/plog-content/thumbs/tuko-gallerys/konga-mud-drivers---6-nov-2010/large/1110-konga_2010_3573.jpg

[KevinNY]

WOW, thanks for the replies. :thumb-up:

But if you were jump over that for a minute, I'm wondering how much of an issue was the spring/turret mount? It looks tight in one of your pictures but I can't see if you had to use an angle grinder to do some trimming?


Cheers,
Todd.

Actually the spring bucket is no problem, close but no issues.

[tuko]

Awesome, thank you Kevin. :thumb-up:

[junkyddog11]

these are photos of the P38 box on a leaf sprung rig. Not sure of the relevance as it will not work on a coiler.


That's pretty funny right there.......the P38 is a coiler. So, after looking at a coiler...... I think the P38 box would work just fine on a series hybrid and the crossmember would not have to be moved.

[greenmeanie]

That's pretty funny right there.......the P38 is a coiler. So, after looking at a coiler...... I think the P38 box would work just fine on a series hybrid and the crossmember would not have to be moved.

I ain't an expert but last time I looked the P38 was air sprung - hence all the heartache about airbags and compressors. It is true that it is commonly converted to coils but as designed it is not.

[junkyddog11]

I haven't had a P38 in my shop with air springs in years but technically I stand corrected.

[albersj51]

Thought I would bring this back...again.

I've got my 67 88" down to a rolling chassis and I am considering a new galvy frame. If I go that route, I'll need a new steering relay and new tie rods (since the ones on there look rough). That being said, if I were do to this power steering conversion would I still need the Series steering relay? I would assume no since the pitman arm would come off off the box and you get longer drag links to account for the different placement. Is this accurate? Could you also tie the power steering box into a series steering relay so you wouldnt have to get new, custom drag links?

Thanks!

Jason

[junkyddog11]

No on the series relay. yes on the custom drag link, which will need to have an end that works with whatever drop arm the steering box of choice uses. P38 box will use standard LR end.

[tuko]

Matt,
possibly you can answer this question for me with ref to custom drag links. I have a 2002 Defender front axle under my hybrid, using the P38 power steering box/pitman arm can I get away with simply ordering a standard issue P38 drag link?


BTW,
since last posting I've bought nearly all the necessary parts to get this conversion on it's way, other than the above part....to be continued.....


Cheers,
Todd.