Seriia88 brake rebuild drums or disk conversion??

[MarkMukilteo]

My 1966 Seriia88 has been in storage for a few years and the seals on the original drum brake system are gone. I'm considering options.

The first is to replace the seals and/or cylinders (along with the master cylinder) to the original specification: Tiny drums, and single circuit. I did this once a long time ago, and even at their best, the original small drum brakes are marginal. Also, the single circuit hydraulic system is flat-out dangerous.

The next thought is to replace the single circuit hydraulics with a SerIII dual circuit system, maybe with a boosted master cylinder.

The third and most desirable option would be a dual circuit system with a front disk brake conversion - real brakes! Does anyone know off a conversion kit that's still in production? There were a few some time ago, but I haven't seen any as of late.

Thanks,
Mark

[mongoswede]

My 1966 Seriia88 has been in storage for a few years and the seals on the original drum brake system are gone. I'm considering options.

The first is to replace the seals and/or cylinders (along with the master cylinder) to the original specification: Tiny drums, and single circuit. I did this once a long time ago, and even at their best, the original small drum brakes are marginal. Also, the single circuit hydraulic system is flat-out dangerous.

The next thought is to replace the single circuit hydraulics with a SerIII dual circuit system, maybe with a boosted master cylinder.

The third and most desirable option would be a dual circuit system with a front disk brake conversion - real brakes! Does anyone know off a conversion kit that's still in production? There were a few some time ago, but I haven't seen any as of late.

Thanks,
Mark

You could look for some late 70's Land Cruiser FJ40 axles or some FJ60 axles. They are a little wider but are passenger side drop on the diff housings just like the land rover. The FJ60 and later FJ40 axles have discs up front. Most are 4.11 ratios.

[fred98050]

My 1966 Seriia88 has been in storage for a few years and the seals on the original drum brake system are gone. I'm considering options.

The first is to replace the seals and/or cylinders (along with the master cylinder) to the original specification: Tiny drums, and single circuit. I did this once a long time ago, and even at their best, the original small drum brakes are marginal. Also, the single circuit hydraulic system is flat-out dangerous.

The next thought is to replace the single circuit hydraulics with a SerIII dual circuit system, maybe with a boosted master cylinder.

The third and most desirable option would be a dual circuit system with a front disk brake conversion - real brakes! Does anyone know off a conversion kit that's still in production? There were a few some time ago, but I haven't seen any as of late.

Thanks,
Mark

Mark,

I have an 88 s2a and had a place in Seattle doing the dual lines with brake booster mod (kept the drums, no disks).
I have to tell you that I am very impressed with the braking power compare to what it used to be...
I have not driven a truck with disk brakes, I would imagine that it is even better, but the regular drums and brake booster makes a HUGE difference and is sufficient for my daily driving.



Frederic

[TeriAnn]

You could look for some late 70's Land Cruiser FJ40 axles or some FJ60 axles. They are a little wider but are passenger side drop on the diff housings just like the land rover. The FJ60 and later FJ40 axles have discs up front. Most are 4.11 ratios.

4:11:1 is a tad tall for a Series to be pushing off road up a steep assent.

88 drum brakes can work just fine when kept in good condition and maintained per the Land Rover owners manual schedule of maintenance. And of course you should keep law enforcement recommended spacing between vehicles or greater at speed.

What does really help is power brakes which applies more pressure to the shoes with less effort on your part. You would need a brake tower and booster from a late IIA or SIII 88. You get dual brake lines with the system upgrade.

I have written a how-to web page to walk you through an upgrade to dual line power brake system (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/dual_brake_conv.htm)

If you decide that you can not live without without front disc brakes I have a web page providing a brief survey of what is on the market or that you might find squirreled away on someones project shelf. (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/discBrake.htm)

[mongoswede]

4:11:1 is a tad tall for a Series to be pushing off road up a steep assent.




Quite possibly. Probably be fine for most daily road driving. And there are a ton of R&P ratios available for the Land Cruiser axles...not to mention that they are a lot stronger then the rover axles. But they will be wider, a bit more work to switch over to, and may require additional investment into a different set of Ring and Pinions.

:thumb-up:

[TeriAnn]

Quite possibly. Probably be fine for most daily road driving.

A 4.11:1 R&P ratio is fine of course if you bought your Land Rover for driving on paved roads away from steep mountain roads or driving relatively flat maintained dirt roads. You would need to use first gear a lot more so you get a lot more practice double clutching both up and down. Stock low range first is 40.7:1 which I've found to be higher than I prefer for a lot of the off road driving I do. A 4.11:1 R&P would give you a low range first of 34.8 at the axle.


And there are a ton of R&P ratios available for the Land Cruiser axles...not to mention that they are a lot stronger then the rover axles.


One would hope that you do not break a Land Cruiser semi floating axle out on the trail. Having a wheel fall off would leave you in a world of hurt.

The Salisbury axle is a Dana 60 built in the UK under license. They came standard on the back of all SIII 109's and both front and back of SIII One ton trucks. They are a bolt on swap for earlier 109's. They can be adapted to 88's by moving the spring perches. You don't break the fronts nearly as much as the rears but if you want, you can get a 24 spline Trutrac or ARB and install 24 spline aftermarket front axles.

Granted the Rover 10 spline axles are pretty wimpy and the Rover 2 pin carrier might be called wimpy wimpy. But the Rover axle housings fit the Series land Rover. They are a full floating axle design. The stock ring and pinion ratio matches the stock engine power curve. You can get a disc brake conversion if you feel you need one.

There are alternative solutions to running to the Toy parts bin at every excuse and not all Land Rover parts are crap. But I agree the 10 spline axles & 2 pin carriers are crap if you use your truck for anything more than a commute vehicle and grocery getter.

[Eric W S]

The single circuit system is fine. Far from dangerous if kept up like TAW says. Series three system is real nice. Send your cylinders out to be professionally resleeved with stainless, buy new lines, source the Series 3 parts and you are done.

Search the board. Plenty of information here and on TAW's site about disc brake conversions. Google Haystee automotive.

[yorker]

One would hope that you do not break a Land Cruiser semi floating axle out on the trail. Having a wheel fall off would leave you in a world of hurt.



How many times have you seen this happen personally? You do know that not all Land Cruiser axles are semifloating- right?

[mongoswede]

Agreed: The Salisbury axles are very strong and are a direct bolt on for a 109. I believe the spring perches have to be moved inwards if you want to mount them on an 88" chassis (pretty simple). Problem with the Salisbury axles is that the ones I seem to ever find for sale are very expensive. I have never found a parts rover equipped with one. The land cruiser axles are fairly abundant, much stronger than the 10 spline rover axles, and can be gotten for pretty cheap. There are enough FJ40's running around on stock axles with chevy/ford V8 swaps and 35" tires and not having axle failures on every corner...to make me feel warm and fuzzy about them. :thumb-up:

So its an option.

[MarkMukilteo]

A quick survey of the options suggests that a front disk brake conversion on my 1966 seriia88 regular would run around $2K for parts by the time I was done - IF I could find the necessary components.

Rebuilding my existing drums with a dual-circuit system might run around $500 - $750, depending on if I go with a power booster, or just go with a dual-circuit, non-boosted system.

I work at Boeing, and redundant systems (multiple redundancy systems on aircraft) are second nature. I've had the single-circuit, antiquated system fail while driving in traffic before, and it wasn't a pleasant experience.

I may go with the dual-circuit, un-boosted system. Weak and frail, yes, but once drum brakes begin to fade, it doesn't matter how much pressure is applied, they won't stop you! I'll just drive VERY conservatively.

Thanks for everyone's input!
Mark

[jac04]

Weak and frail, yes,....
IMO the drum brakes are plenty 'strong', and a robust design. Go with the dual circuit brakes with a vacuum booster - obviously fit all new components.

Another upgrade would be to consider a retrofit to the later type SIII brakes that have 11" front brakes and up-rated 10" rear brakes. This is the system on my Air Portable and I find the brakes to be very good.