Roof headliner decision

[John O from Jersey]

Hi folks,

I'm at the stage where I need to do something about getting a headliner in my truck (I feel like I'm inside a giant sound amplifier). I was originally planning on going Mercedes Jim's route with the industrial felt over closed cell hi-dens foam all glued up. On a whim, I stopped by an auto upholstery and headliner specialist in my area to see if hitting the "easy button" was an option. He had an interesting recommendation for me. He suggested Rhino-lining it. He thought 1/8-3/16" of Rhino would give me the wanted sound deadening, look clean, and obviously would never sag, etc.

It sounded like quite a reasonable idea, especially coming from someone with no commercial interest since he couldn't do it himself. Anybody ever try anything like that?? Was it effective? Any lower cost alternatives to Rhino if I went that route?? I obviously don't need the "toughness" of Rhino but think I do need the thickness and "mass".

Any comments greatly appreciated. I'm gonna throw this up on the G&R board too.

Thanks,

John O

'71 88" Series IIA w/ Perkins Prima

[albersj51]

The only downsides I can think of are permanence, price and looks. Since rhino-lining is a pain to get off, its there for the long haul so you may want to find someone that's done it to get their feedback. If you like the look then that's a non-issue (mine is bare so I can't say much). I looked at doing it to the interior of another truck and it was around $600. You could go with herculiner from autozone for about $100 and DIY. Let us know if you do it and what your thoughts are.

[albersj51]

Also, I know it would help with rattles, but would it do a lot to prevent amplifying of other noises? I would think that, due to a lack of soft materials to absorb sound, it may create an echo of sorts. Just a thought

[greenmeanie]

Albers is correct. Sound deadening takes three forms;absorption, reflection and resonance. Rinolining will help with resonance by adding mass to a large panel altering its resonant frequency. As it is an uneven surface it may help to a small degree with refelction but it does nothing for absorption. Its an expensive way of addressing half the problem.

Cost and absorption are the beauty of Merc Jim's lining. If you feel rich add a small piece (like about 1/4-1/3 area of panel) of something like Dynamat or its cheaper Home Depot cousin and then do a liner like Jim's. Then you address resonance and absorption which are the critical factors for a sound deadening headliner and leave reflection for one of those plastic doohicky engine covers that are all the rage in modern vehicles.

[siii8873]

I did something similar to Merc's. First I contact cemented 2 layers of closed cell foam. I used army surplus sleeping pads that I bought on ebay quite cheap. On top of this I glued on some GM headliner material from midwest fabrics. I think it took 3 yards and the width was good. For this I used the glue that they recommended. It came out fairly good for a rookie at this type of work.
I have attached a picture of the foam being installed. Have not taken a picture of the finished product

[albersj51]

Not to hijack the thread, but can a headliner be done without taking the hartop apart? Id hate to take out and then re-rivet the entire thing.

[siii8873]

This does not require any riveting. It is just unbolted from the sides and windscreen. I think this glue up method is easier like this off truck inverted. I have been told if doing a hoop job that is best done in position. If anyone needs a complete set of decent hoops I have a set.

[crankin]

I did something similar to Merc's. First I contact cemented 2 layers of closed cell foam. I used army surplus sleeping pads that I bought on ebay quite cheap. On top of this I glued on some GM headliner material from midwest fabrics. I think it took 3 yards and the width was good. For this I used the glue that they recommended. It came out fairly good for a rookie at this type of work.
I have attached a picture of the foam being installed. Have not taken a picture of the finished product

I would love to see the finish deal!

[albersj51]

Siii8873- PM sent

[redmondrover]

I also copied Jim's idea. Used 1/4" closed cell foam and hull liner. Turned out pretty good, I think. It does a good job of deadening the noise.

4240

[siii8873]

I'll get a picture early next week. The reason I used two layers of 3/8" foam is that it equaled the height of the center rib so the liner material bridged it without a bump.

[rejeep]

is it possible, yet harder, to do this with the roof still on the vehicle?

[Donnie]

Not to hijack the thread, but can a headliner be done without taking the hartop apart? Id hate to take out and then re-rivet the entire thing.
No rivets, just bolts, it is MUCH easier to glue foam or other material when it is off the truck & laying on it's back. Glue tends to run downhill?????????/

[shock]

I'll get a picture early next week. The reason I used two layers of 3/8" foam is that it equaled the height of the center rib so the liner material bridged it without a bump.
Which gives it a nice clean look but probably works best if you don't have any port holes/roof vents to deal with.

[Tim Smith]

I sort of documented my headliner here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/BumbasHeadliner?authkey=Gv1sRgCJzMg46bneCP5gE#

I used 1/2" closed cell foam and then covered it with some fabric from a local craft shop. It really is nice for sound and for heat. You may not want to go as dark as I did because it sucks the light out of the interior. I used 12v LED lights for kitchen cabinets and that solved the problem nicely.

Word of caution. If you go this route, make sure you glue the closed cell foam really well. Mine started to sag during the hot summer and because the material is so heavy, it came down quick. I will re-glue it and maybe finish up the overhead console which will be sure to keep it up there. You might want to go with a lighter material than 1/2" closed cell foam. Perhaps just a thicker fabric and a little herculiner for the resonance.

[siii8873]

I used contact cement for putting up my foam. I have used that stuff for everything with my canoes over the years and it has always held up.
This is a little different application so time will tell.
I like the double layer for my truck with just a basic top.
Since I did mine I found a place that sells all types of foams in wider widths, no seams. It's called the foam factory, google it. I found out that the headliner material does not cover up any imperfections as I thought it might. Keep seams as tight and level as you can.

[John O from Jersey]

Thanks for the responses everybody. I think I'm going to abandon the Rhino idea and go with the foam and hull liner method. I'll probably go with a thinner foam if I can find it, say 3/8 ". Specifically which adhesive did you guys use?? Does 3m 8088 sound right??

I'll try to document w/ pics when I do it.

JO

[Tim Smith]

I used the 3M but like I said, it failed this summer. Could be that I didn't use enough though. Watch those fumes!

[siii8873]

I used contact cement for the closed cell foam to the top and a weldwood spray adhesive recommended by midwest fabrics for the head liner material to the foam. Like I said they seemed to work very well but have only been up for about 2 months. The nice thing about the weldwood product is that it had an adequate open time to get the fabric in position. It took me more than one spray can for the fabric and two quarts of contact cement for two layers of foam.

[John O from Jersey]

Thanks - any chance you remember which Weldwood spray adhesive you used?? (High Strength Spray or Multi Purpose Adhesive)?

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search.do?freeText=weldwood%20spray&page=GRID&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=dap_weldwood_spray_adhesive

I'm guessing that would be a good choice to use for hull liner to the foam. I'm leaning toward the multipurpose.

[siii8873]

I used the high strength. It has a higher temperature range. The company that sold me the GM headliner material recommended it for that product.