Shovels: Genuine vs RN brand

[Bud]

If anybody can provide a comparison between the Genuine RTC9659 shovel, and the "Carters" shovel displayed at the following link, it would be most appreciated. Ideally, they would be nearly impossible to distinguish when held in the hand (after removing the "Carters" sticker of course).

-As the genuine item seems to be NLA, if anyone is willing to sell one (new or used), I'm you're buyer...

http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-6092-shovel-rovers-north-expedition.aspx

Thanks,
Brett

[disco2hse]

Do you know its dimensions? Looks a little short to me.

I am afraid mine speak with Chinese accents ;)

[alaskajosh]

I'm not sure but wouldn't you think that Carters probably made the "genuine" shovel too? I doubt Land Rover ever made their own shovels.
I have a Carters and it's a pretty nice shovel. It definitely looks and feels hand made. There's no mistaking it for your run-of-the-mill Home Depot/Ace Hardware variety in it's quality of materials and workmanship.

[Bud]

Alan and Josh, thank you for your replies, the contrast is most entertaining. Josh, I appreciate your recommendations of quality and workmanship with regard to the Carters brand.

If anybody has, or can do, a side-by-side analysis between the two, I would be most appreciative.

(I can't imagine there's not a genuine shovel in the RN employee group to compare to) They started in an awesome barn, had a 2b FC...I'm hopeful I suppose, even for a PM...

[alaskajosh]

I maintain that the NLA "genuine" LR shovel probably is a Carters shovel.
Carters says they've been in the business for 250 yrs.. a lot longer than LR.. and, as an olde time'y British company, I'd be willing to bet that LR approached them with a shovel contract.

http://www.humbermerchants.co.uk/downloads/hand/Carter%20catalogue.pdf

Now that LR doesn't deal so much in dirt, mud, sand, and snow, the contract is up but I'm guessing you can still own the same shovel with a "Carters" sticker.

[Les Parker]

Landrover never supplied shovels with their vehicles.
These were supplied by the MOD when the vehicles were being prepared for delivery to the specific unit, Army, Marines, RAF and to the contract that the vehicles was purchased under.
Thus, there may have been many suppliers over the years for shovels, pick-axes and the like, depending on their bids for the contract to supply.
The MOD would specify the dims. to fit the appropriate vehicle, the 101 has a smaller shovel/pick axe than the 88" and 109", tenders would be sent out and contracts awarded.
To the best of my belief, the MOD shovels never had the manufacturers details, ie label on them, just the crow's foot and date of manufacture.
We tried many shovel manufacturers before securing our current "Carter" shovel.

Just my 2p.

[xsbowes]

Carter did make shovels and axes for the government during WWII. It's on their History on their website.

[Momo]

About ten years ago I was rummaging through a military surplus store on Hollywood Blvd. and found one of these. It's date stamped "1940", but has no maker's mark. The t handle was a little loose but I fixed it. It's very well made & sturdy. Best of all, I paid ten bucks for it. If you look around, you might get lucky.

[ducttape]

Landrover never supplied shovels with their vehicles.
These were supplied by the MOD when the vehicles were being prepared for delivery to the specific unit, Army, Marines, RAF and to the contract that the vehicles was purchased under.
Thus, there may have been many suppliers over the years for shovels, pick-axes and the like, depending on their bids for the contract to supply.
The MOD would specify the dims. to fit the appropriate vehicle, the 101 has a smaller shovel/pick axe than the 88" and 109", tenders would be sent out and contracts awarded.
To the best of my belief, the MOD shovels never had the manufacturers details, ie label on them, just the crow's foot and date of manufacture.
We tried many shovel manufacturers before securing our current "Carter" shovel.

Just my 2p.

Hi Les,

For what it's worth, this would be a perfect item to address one of my few gripes about your catalog over.

I notice there are no dimensions shown. Would this fit a wing? As a Pioneer kit on the gate? Is it too large so that only one's mother in law holding it would work?

I am looking for benches for the rear of my 88. Having to live vicariously through catalogs I'm not sure if your benches fit 88's or 109's only or, what! There are no dimensions.

The more info you give, the better, imho

regards
David

BTW, that is one heck of a nice looking shovel!

[SafeAirOne]

I notice there are no dimensions shown. Would this fit a wing? As a Pioneer kit on the gate? Is it too large so that only one's mother in law holding it would work?


Shovel dimensions given in this brochure from Richard Careter Ltd. (http://www.richardcarterltd.co.uk/assets/RCLBrochure2010.pdf) (6mb PDF file).

[ducttape]

Shovel dimensions given in this brochure from Richard Careter Ltd. (http://www.richardcarterltd.co.uk/assets/RCLBrochure2010.pdf) (6mb PDF file).

Yes, but that wasn't my point.

First, if I am shopping here, I want the info here. And, where do I find the info on the benches for instance?

Second, NEVER let a customer leave your store. EVER. Once gone, they have too much distraction for you to be guaranteed they will come back. What if I can't find what I need in store X, go to Google to find the information someplace else and find it cheaper? That someplace else not only gave me more (in the way of info) but saved me money.

At the end of the day, regardless of what Bing says, too much information can be a good thing.

[I Leak Oil]

Maybe it's just me but if I can't find what I'm looking for I just pick up the phone and ask. I imagine inputing specific technical data for every item you have could get quite time consuming, especially if using different suppliers. Lot's of data base maintenance there.
I'd rather pay less for an item than to pay more just to subsidize all the extra data entry.

[printjunky]

I love RN, but I have to agree that I've often been frustrated by their online catalog, particularly regarding item details in descriptions, missing images and the search functionality. And I am often checking something at night, or at a time when it's not convenient or appropriate to call. And while, of course, it costs money to maintain a detailed and accurate catalog, in this type of catalog, once the entire thing were finished the work would ratchet down exponentially (some maintenance/updating and adding new items). And it seems pretty clear, based on casual observation of the vast majority of online catalogs, that the more information there is, the better. And in fact, as ducttape implies, it seems likely that in the long run RN would sell more with a better online catalog. I've definitely given up and tried elsewhere, sometimes to end up returning to RN, sometimes not. If the RN online catalog almost never (no such thing as perfection!) left me with questions, was fast, efficient, well organized, complete and comprehensive (bonus points for interesting, informative and dynamic - for example a musical instrument retail site I frequent puts up tech tips, lessons, ideas, etc), I GUARANTEE I would be much less likely to hesitate over their generally higher (than some of the competition's) prices.

And while I think the return on investment for a company that is primarily a mail-order company is pretty likely to be significant, especially over time, it would also have "soft" benefits by improving user's overall experience and so improving customer perception of RN.

[printjunky]

Just as I posted this I realized the discussion should be somewhere else (Site Feedback? General?), probably. Sorry for piling on the hijack.

[SafeAirOne]

I don't think you all realize how many items are in the Rover's North inventory and what it takes to measure, weigh and make technical documentation for say...120,000 separate items, then upload each bit of information to the website. That's 360,000 data points to enter separately!

Check out the other supplier of Rover parts in Vermont's website. That site makes the Rovers North website look like the blinkin' Library of Congress!

I can't imagine a situation where a fuel cap's shipping dimension and weight, for example, is critical at 3am. If it is that critical, you're in luck, because it's 8am in the UK and there are tons of parts suppliers there who can measure and weigh one for you! :D

[Cutter]

I understand the desire to have all the information at your fingertips, but the guys at RN are pretty helpful if you call them. If you ask I bet they would measure the shovel or misc. bit for you while you were on hold even.

[Blueboy]

but the guys at RN are pretty helpful if you call them.

yep, couldn't agree more and with Blueboy being a hybrid, its nice to be able to get the modern (at least if one considers 1993 modern) as well as Series stuff from friendly and knowledgeable folks.

Jaime

[Bud]

Before starting this thread, I emailed RN directly. The response led me to open this discussion.

Les, thank you for an excellent reply!

I would agree with the comments others have made regarding product descriptions. This would be a prudent investment. I think a more forthcoming catalog would develop greater client loyalty.

Thank you,
Brett