Series 73 Repairs + Modifications

[IslandRover]

Hi.....I am about to take on some repairs and needed modifications to my '73 Series III (88) and was hoping for some of your advice on the following areas. I'm still new to LRs (and mechanics in general) and highly addicted as well as excited to learn during this process. I don't have bottomless pockets by any means but have saved up some money to put towards this project. Any insight from your years of experience would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much in advance!

My wife, dog, and I run our Rover on the island 2 miles max per day and use it on the beach in the summer on weekends (when we get a free one). It's basically a family, daily driver without highways that we want to be comfortable, reliable and provide years of use. We are also trying to avoid cosmetic touches that make our LR appear "modified". We're trying to update her and keep her looking as classic as possible in appearance.

Questions / Thoughts:

SUSPENSION
- Rocky Mountain Parabolics + Pro Comp 9000 Shocks VS Rovers North Parabolic + Shock Kit
- Is it worth it to buy RM's and pay the shipping of $160 they charge from Canada to the East Coast?
- How to decide if the 2 or 3 leaf rear is best?
- Are parabolics definitely a worthwhile upgrade?
- Recommended Shocks needed for daily + beach use (no off-road)?

TIRES
** I have 15 inch wheels and not sure on the size / width that will best suit us.
- Michelin LTX A/T2 worth the price?
- Or is a BF Goodrich All Terrain a good choice to save a few bucks?
- Or go for a more affordable passenger tire so its better for the beach (when we deflate).
- Tire Rack have the best prices?

BATTERY
- Thoughts on brands?
- Original style?

CARBURATOR
- Thoughts on best brands for most affordable cost?

SEATBELTS
- Is it possible to find original static 3 point or lap belts.

I will definitely have more questions so if you guys are cool with it I'd like to post more thoughts as I encounter the issues on my LR.

THANKS A MILLION! The LR community is truly awesome so thanks for having me.
:thumb-up:

[jac04]

Suspension:
I have personally used both RM and RN (made by Woodhead) parabolics, both with OME shocks. IMO, the RN springs fit better and appeared to be better quality versus the RM springs (and they were less expensive). If you go RN, then your only choice is 2 leaf front / 3 leaf rears. I have them on my soft-top Lightweight and the rear sits slightly higher than the front and they provide an excellent ride coupled with the OME shocks. Some people think the OME shocks are a little stiff for the parabolics (over-dampened), and report good results with the ProComp shocks.

My only suggestion is that you use the heavy duty U-bolts from Rocky Mountain (or see if a local spring shop can supply the proper 7/16" U-bolts). They are the same size as the original factory U-bolts and are worth the extra $ in my opinion. The replacement U-bolts that come with the RN springs are much smaller diameter than the originals.

Tires:
I have no experience with 15" tires for the Rover, so I'll let others comment on size. I buy lots of tires from the Tire Rack because they have excellent selection & price. However, most local tire shops have caught on to TR, and they will usually match their price. If the local place will give you a good price, then stay local - it pays off if you need a flat repaired or other tire work.

Michelin makes excellent quality tires. Are they worth the price? For a commuter vehicle or normal daily driver, the performance and treadwear may be worth the extra $. For your application, not so much, epecially if you are on a budget. However, I've been called a tire snob before, so I can completely understand wanting to buy quality tires.

Battery:
Put the biggest battery in it that you can find. I recently researched batteries before I bought one for the Lightweight. I went with a NAPA Select 84 Group 27. This is the biggest that will fit in the tray. IIRC, the original battery was a Group 24.

Carburetor:
Lots of opinions on carbs out there. If you want a brand new carb at a decent price, buy a Weber 34ICH (part number 15290.027). Your SIII should already be set up for the Weber, so no point in buying the whole kit from RN. The 34ICH can be bought for $149.95 from http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/34_ICH_p/15290.027.htm .

Seat belts:
RN has a wide selection of seat belts. I was able to source original genuine inertia reel belts from the UK for a very reasonable price. Check a place like www.lrseries.com (http://www.lrseries.com) .

[TedW]

I also run a soft top and find the 3-leaf rears to be fine. If you have a hard top then so much the better - the extra weight will soften the ride even more.

I had OME shocks but found them to be too stiff for my taste, so I put my original Woodheads back on and have been very happy - comfy ride and no body roll at all with my soft top.

Also agree on the Weber - set it and forget it.

Keep those questions coming!

[LR Max]

I will give you my opinion/experience:

1. RM springs + OME. For the RM springs, just look around. It really comes down to shipping with these springs. Surprisingly, after everything (for me) buying RM's from Roversnorth was the cheapest overall. Bought my OME shocks from 4 Wheel Parts America. They are by far, the cheapest for that kinda stuff.

2. BFG A/Ts will work great for what you want them to do. LTX's shine in the towing department (think gooseneck trailer). Also BFG's are probably a little better with your planned of roading.

3. The 34ICH and Rochester carb are both solid carbs. Be warned, though: Both carbs need to have their main jet changed when you buy them! But once you do that, they'll be pretty worry free. Put a good NAPA fuel filter before it and it'll last you forever.

[tmckeon88]

TIRES: Let me jump on the bandwagon for BFG All-Terrain TAs. I drove my Series IIA from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego on a set of those and didn't even have so much as a slow leak. Great tires- I just bought a replacement pair for about $160 each.

Tom

[IslandRover]

THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Anyone have thoughts on 15 inch tire widths? I've heard alot of good things about the BFG All terrain so will prob opt for those. (I currently have Michelins but lost them to sidewall cracking from the previous owner having the LR sit in his garage for a long time thus why I was thinking of going with them again.)

Are the OME shocks overkill if we don't go off-roading? Better off with Pro Comps or another brand? + I'm not a fan of the yellow on OMEs so wondering if I can paint them white/black so they blend in. Any thoughts?

My overall goal is to update our LR so she looks (close to) stock but runs more efficiently.

Thanks again. I'll be back to update and post more questions! Really appreciate all your input!

:thumb-up:

[jac04]

Be warned, though: Both carbs need to have their main jet changed when you buy them!

If you read the BP write-up on carbs, you are led to believe this. However, the current spec Weber 34ICH (part number 15290.027) is factory jetted as follows:
Main Jet = 165
Em. Tube = F6
Air Corr. Jet = 190

These are the BP recommended 'starting point' jets for the 2.25L if at sea level.

[TedW]

Are the OME shocks overkill if we don't go off-roading? Better off with Pro Comps or another brand? + I'm not a fan of the yellow on OMEs so wondering if I can paint them white/black so they blend in. Any thoughts?

My overall goal is to update our LR so she looks (close to) stock but runs more efficiently.

I suggest that you leave your original equipment shocks on and see how you like the ride with the parabolics. If you are unhappy with them you can always switch them out later. If I had done this I would never have wasted my money on the Old Man Emus, which for me were way too stiff.

No disrespect meant to OME, they just weren't right for me.

[fishguy]

Hi...I don't have bottomless pockets by any means but have saved up some money to put towards this project.

My wife, dog, and I run our Rover on the island 2 miles max per day and use it on the beach in the summer on weekends (when we get a free one). It's basically a family, daily driver without highways that we want to be comfortable, reliable and provide years of use. We are also trying to avoid cosmetic touches that make our LR appear "modified". We're trying to update her and keep her looking as classic as possible in appearance.

Questions / Thoughts:

SUSPENSION
- Rocky Mountain Parabolics + Pro Comp 9000 Shocks VS Rovers North Parabolic + Shock Kit

TIRES
** I have 15 inch wheels and not sure on the size / width that will best suit us.

CARBURATOR
- Thoughts on best brands for most affordable cost?
:thumb-up:

I carved down your questions to what I'm comfortable commenting on...

I ran my Series 3 for 10 years as a daily driver till the frame failed & after a 2 year wait its in the middle of a slow rebuild.

What Island and therefore what conditions? If I'm reading your post correctly it's on road, on sand and maybe some dirt roads? Basic AT's work fine...I ran no name ones (15's) and participated in some beginner group runs with no issues. Beach tire size required minimum for the national seashore beach permit is P225 / 70 R15 on the 15" rim.

Loved my parabolics with stock shocks...and my weber

[IslandRover]

Great - thanks Guys!

Since it sounds like the RN and RM parabolics are just about equal, then I'm going to get the RN parabolics - buy local+ US and saving some $$ sounds good to me. I'll keep my stock shocks for now (I think they are on there way out) and see how it goes from there. Good call.

I'm going to take your advice on the Weber carb too.

Also, are there any online video / tutorials for how to change out shocks?

Really appreciate all the input - thanks again!
:thumb-up:

[stomper]

Changing shocks is silly easy, as long as they aren't rusted in place. Do you have the green service manuals for your Land Rover? (AKA the Green Bible). If not, I would recommend you pick them up. This is all you will practically ever need to fix anything on the Rover. (that and this forum :thumb-up:)

I'm going to let Nick Dawson explain how to change a shock. He came to this forum with no wrenching ability at all (no offense Nick) and he is learning a ton. He was forced into learning shock replacement, and can give you a great step by step tutorial. Take it away Nick!:thumb-up:

[IslandRover]

BATTERY
Where would you recommend I go to find the best / biggest I can use?
I would love to get the original IIRC you mentioned if it's still possible....or is there a comp out there?

Thanks!

[stomper]

Jac04 wrote:
NAPA Select 84 Group 27. This is the biggest that will fit in the tray. IIRC, the original battery was a Group 24.

NAPA batteries are great, but as long as it is the correct size, you should be fine. DieHard, Optima, Interstate, Champion.....I don't think any one would give you too much trouble.

[jac04]

Where would you recommend I go to find the best / biggest I can use?
I always do a lot of research before buying anything. The battery I bought was no different. Like I said, the NAPA 84 Group 27 is the way to go. Quality is great, and there are NAPAs everywhere just in case you have a warranty issue. Going with the largest battery size will give you added reserve capacity and cold cranking amps.

The other battery brand that gets excellent ratings is the Advance Auto Autocraft Gold battery. This is the battery that I use in my daily driver car.

[Tim Smith]

There was a battery write up in one of the latest Overland Journal's and they highly recommended the Interstate Platinum. That battery is actually an AGM battery made by Odessey but is much cheaper (with a shorter warranty) through the Interstate brand name.

I have an Odessey and can attest to their quality. By no means cheap, but they really do stand by their warranty. I believe the Interstate battery is warranted for 3 to 5 years but if you treat it well, you should be able to get 8 years out of it. At least my Odessey is warranted for that.

You can always go for a cheaper battery but if you compare the service life, they may not be cheaper in the long run.

[LR Max]

If you read the BP write-up on carbs, you are led to believe this. However, the current spec Weber 34ICH (part number 15290.027) is factory jetted as follows:
Main Jet = 165
Em. Tube = F6
Air Corr. Jet = 190

These are the BP recommended 'starting point' jets for the 2.25L if at sea level.

I bought my Webber from RN and straight off the bat it was running rich. Had to install a smaller jet (like, 150-ish, if memory serves). :thumb-up: ever since.

[IslandRover]

Hi guys.

So I've heard a ton of mixed reviews on Rocky Mountain parabolics VS RN's British line, etc. Seems like everyone has their own opinion on them.

Supp RM are now made in India and cheaply made thus the cheaper cost.

But...MY QUESTION TO YOU...one guy just told me that you have to install gas shocks (he recommended OMEs rather than ProComp) when you upgrade to parabolics. He said without the shocks the car would not ride properly with the parabolics (og shocks are too short). He doesnt sell shocks either so it wasn't a sales pitch.

Any thoughts? Confirm? Disagree?

Also, if I do go for OME shocks is spray painting them black (so they blend in) ok to do with a Rustoleum spray paint?

Thanks again!

[TedW]

Hi guys.

So I've heard a ton of mixed reviews on Rocky Mountain parabolics VS RN's British line, etc. Seems like everyone has their own opinion on them.

Supp RM are now made in India and cheaply made thus the cheaper cost.

But...MY QUESTION TO YOU...one guy just told me that you have to install gas shocks (he recommended OMEs rather than ProComp) when you upgrade to parabolics. He said without the shocks the car would not ride properly with the parabolics (og shocks are too short). He doesnt sell shocks either so it wasn't a sales pitch.

Any thoughts? Confirm? Disagree?

Also, if I do go for OME shocks is spray painting them black (so they blend in) ok to do with a Rustoleum spray paint?

Thanks again!

See comments above. I have RN parabolics ( 2 lf front / 3 lf rear) on my soft top 88 and love 'em. I did NOT love the Old Man Emus - way too stiff for my taste. I put my OEM Woodhead shocks back on and am very happy. I've never had a problem with them bottoming out (or topping out), on road, off road, or whatever. The truck handles swell, no body roll, and has a nice cushy (sort of!) ride.

Just my HO.

[NickDawson]

Changing shocks is silly easy, as long as they aren't rusted in place.
I'm going to let Nick Dawson explain how to change a shock. He came to this forum with no wrenching ability at all (no offense Nick) and he is learning a ton. He was forced into learning shock replacement, and can give you a great step by step tutorial. Take it away Nick!:thumb-up:

True on all counts! Should be easy unless there's rust and I'm as green as they come.

Happy to share my adventure with shocks

I ruptured a shock while four wheeling a few hours from home. Literally pulled apart. So after lurching home, I ordered a new set from RN.

Shocks attach two ways: by bolt at frame and by a stud, washer and cotter pin at the leaf springs. The bolts were easy. The PO of my rig used copper grease on them liberally. The stud/washer/pins however were rusted solid. At one point I was 100% convinced they were welded.

For the first two, I fought removal with brute force - sledge hammers, cold chisel, and finally a sawzall. It was rough and hard (but nothing compared to getting them back on).

Then I saw the light. PB BLASTER! I soaked the last two pins for literally a week each and the pins just pulled right out. It was great. I felt stupid. That pretty much sums up all the work I do on the rover :)

Putting them back on was also a learning experience. The blots were again easy. The two new bushings compressed under the pressure from the bolts just fine. The studs however were more of a challenge. I'm told there is a tool that helps you add compression but I couldnt find one anywhere. I resorted to using a series of C clamps and a lot of busted knuckles... there simply isn't much easy about compressing bushings.

I did replace the washers and pins with stainless versions and on the last shock I simply reused the old bushings. It fit snug enough and I'd wished I'd done that for all of them. Reference above: I felt dumb.

All in all, a solid day of hard work, but nothing technically challenging at all.

Its also great because you get to see a lot of the axels, hubs, and suspension up close for a good inspection.

Good luck on the mods and keep us posted!!

[NickDawson]

guy just told me that you have to install gas shocks (he recommended OMEs rather than ProComp) when you upgrade to parabolics. He said without the shocks the car would not ride properly with the parabolics

My research suggested the same thing - you need gas shocks that fit the parabolics. I have parabolics from unknown origin from the UK. When I went to replace my shocks I wanted OMEs... I was ready to spend for them too... and EVERYONE talked me out of expensive shocks and into the procomps from RN. I've been quite pleased with them and frankly I'm 100% sure the money I saved is better spent elsewhere on the truck. An extra $200 worth of shocks isn't going to get you unstuck while wheeling or make the rover ride like a caddy.

[AU_88]

Jac04 wrote:
NAPA Select 84 Group 27. This is the biggest that will fit in the tray. IIRC, the original battery was a Group 24.

NAPA batteries are great, but as long as it is the correct size, you should be fine. DieHard, Optima, Interstate, Champion.....I don't think any one would give you too much trouble.

I would stay away from Optima, I've had two in my Discovery, and both were not very good. The first was replaced within two years and the second went bad less than two years after that. I have a Die Hard Platinum in my Discovery now, and a Kirkland battery from Costco in my RRC. Honestly they've both been good batteries so far. I don't think for your purposes you would need a $200+ battery.

As far as tires, I may be wrong, but I think Michelin owns and makes BF Goodrich and I prefer the BFG's.

[IslandRover]

Ok, so first off.....thanks for all your input to date.

Now onto the next batch of repairs that my LR is said to need. Any thoughts (on ease of repair + projected time involved + experience notes + genuine vs proline vs more expensive upgrade) you could share would be appreciated as I investigate the parts needed for these (see below).

Thanks again!!!!

Wheel Cylinder (right front, right rear, left rear)
Brake Shoes (1 axel set)
Upper/Lower return springs for rear brakes
Brake flex lines
All clutch lines
Muffler w/ hanger set

Also, thoughts on seatbelts?......I want to keep them as orig as possible and may invest in a softtop down the road. Should I stick with lapbelts for ease (btwn soft and hardtop)? If yes, which kind? Hoping for a non-modified / non-modern / somewhat stock looking belt, that is up to date on safety. I currently have a stock static on drivers side and lap belts elsewhere.

FYI - We've got about a foot and half of snow here on island right now. Wish I had my LR with me to cruise the streets of untouched snow....

[cousindave]

I used proline brake parts from RN on a previous rover. Absolutely no problems! Also RN gives great technical advise and stand behind all their parts. One thing I learned the hard way is; check you hub seal before changing wheel cylinders. There's nothing like getting new wheel cylinders,brake lines and pads only to find that your landy doesn't stop any better than it did before spending money, blood, sweat and lots of tears!

[I Leak Oil]

I bought Proline brake shoes. The set I received were Britpart, still in the Britpart box. I've never had good luck with Britpart stuff, if I knew I would have shopped somewhere else. I'll keep these as a set of emergency spares but I'll look around for a set of Mintex shoes instead.

[rickv100]

RN has Mintex brake shoes, I just got a set of 11" rears for my LR.

Rick

[Terrys]

RDS has Mintex also.

[IslandRover]

Any thoughts on NRP Stainless Steel Exhaust systems?

Worth the additional cost?

I'll be driving on road and beach so thinking it could be a worthwhile upgrade...

Also, is RN the best place to buy? best price?

Thanks!

[AU_88]

If your exhaust is on it's last leg than maybe, but there is no point in replacing the exhaust unless you need to. It's not going to improve anything.

[IslandRover]

My exhaust is on its last legs.....I've had to put the parabolic + shocks on hold as they are supp to last me through next summer.

I'm taking on the necessary repairs to my Brakes, Clutch, Engine, Loose Ends, and Exhaust in early Jan.

So I'm wondering if the add cost for the SS is worth the cost OR is it more of just a cosmetic / luxury upgrade.

Thanks.

[jac04]

The NRP exhaust system is only sold through RN as far as I know. It is made by Techtonics Tuning out west. I installed one on my Lightweight. IMO it isn't worth the money, and there are some considerable design flaws with the system.

First I was surprised to hear (directly from Techtonics Tuning) that the design of the NRP exhaust is based on a beat-up IIA with completely shot engine & trans mounts. I had trouble with clearance at the x-member and I was told that some of my clearance issues may simply be due to the fact that I have new engine mounts.

Anyhow, there was a lot of twisting, sliding, and repositioning involved with getting mine to fit. In the end, the system ended up in place without any pre-load or stress on it. However, to fit the NRP exhaust on the Lightweight (which I was told should be no different than a standard 88"), I needed to:

1) Install spherical washers at the exhaust studs to allow for proper adjustment of the pipe (McMaster Carr p/n 91944A029, three required). This was CRITICAL. I found that the front pipe needed to come off the manifold at a slight angle. No big deal because of the 'ball and socket' type connection between the manifols and the pipe, right? Wrong. The flange on the NRP exhaust doesn't 'float' like the original exhaust. This means that the flange doesn't end up perpendicular to the 3 exhaust studs. If you try to tighten the nuts on the studs, it tries to bend the studs. I have a feeling that this would only result in manifold cracks around the studs. The spherical washer sets allow for the flange misalignment.
2) Custom fab an intermediate hanger. This needed to be done because there is no 'ball and socket' joint at the intermediate pipe like the stock exhaust system. Therefore, there is no adjustability to the intermediate pipe and you have to take what you get in terms of hanger alignment. Mine was way off.
3) Rotate the rear hanger so it was lower. Again, to allow for hanger alignment.
4) Install stainless shaft collars to the rear hanger to keep the rubber mount in place. Collars are McMaster Carr p/n 6462K15, 2 required. Without the collars, the rubber hanger would work its way out of place.
5) Get a new tailpipe made. The standard tail pipe is much too close to the tire and it will rub when the rear suspension flexes. I designed a new tailpipe and Techtonics sent me one at no charge (although it took a long time for them to do it).

I probably had 20 hours into the exhaust installation by the time all was said & done. Not bad for a $500+ exhaust system. So, overall, don't waste your time & money. IMO, you would be better off going through multiple standard exhaust systems. If you really want stainless, you can see what people have to say about the stainless system available from Atlantic British.

Now, with all that said, the NRP system sure looks pretty once installed:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/000_1750.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/000_1749.jpg

[Terrys]

Now, with all that said, the NRP system sure looks pretty once installed:
What doesn't look pretty on that truck, Jeff?

I put an NRP CAT back system on my 110. The pipes all lined up well and still looks good 3 years later, but the hangers were a bit, uhhh, yew yaw.

[Tim Smith]

I can back up what Jeff said about the NRP and I too have a lightweight. Unfortunately I didn't get the fortune of having Techtonics Tuning fix the tail pipe. To be honest though, I'm running larger tires than stock and so it's hard for me to say my truck isn't out of spec. When I had the install problems, RN directed me to their shop and that was pretty much the end of my search for a fix.

Jeff, I almost wonder if the lightweights aren't laid out different some how. Just a thought because I've not heard of any standard 88's with the same issues. We couldn't be the only two who bought the NRP, could we? :confused:

Here is the exhaust alignment on my truck with my "final bracket" clearly shown. :o That bracket has lasted the longest at over a year with some hard trails in between.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Mw8MF8Gu0DU/SxRkXlZdtMI/AAAAAAAAERc/rlqnXUz5Byk/s640/DSC01022.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Mw8MF8Gu0DU/SxRkX_9_aTI/AAAAAAAAERg/xIgpY0SALeA/s640/DSC01023.JPG

And shooting straight down. Of course the wheel will move backwards on flex, so this only gets worse.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Mw8MF8Gu0DU/SxRkYFKTDAI/AAAAAAAAERk/lkPsXk_QzHA/s640/DSC01024.JPG

This is one case where I would advise either getting original or having a shop make up a 2" exhaust for you.

[jac04]

.. I almost wonder if the lightweights aren't laid out different some how.
Well, when compared to a civilian 88":
The wheelbase is the same
The engine & trans are the same
The driveshafts are the same
That puts the rear axle in the same position relative to the engine, so a regular 88" will have the same tail pipe issues. Can't say for sure about the hanger location on the chassis.

Either way, the NRP system could be a good system if they:
1) Made the 'ball and socket' connection at the manifold the same as original.
2) Added another 'ball and socket' at the intermediate pipe to allow for adjustment of the alignment. A flex section could also be used here.
3) Changed the tail pipe design per my design.

[Tim Smith]

Yeah the wheelbase and mechanicals are the same but are you sure the drive shafts are? The only thing I can imagine is that the engine and trans were moved forward a hair and that was hidden with the body changes. We know the firewall out-riggers are different but while they were at it, could they have moved them forward?

Again this was just a thought that I had because you and I are the only ones I know of who have had fitting trouble. I never looked into this or anything.