View Full Version : Five Tabs to Tilt The Tub - Where are They?
Bostonian1976
03-29-2007, 09:27 AM
Just prepping myself for this weekend....I'm going to attempt to tilt my tub forward because....as you can see.........it needs it.....
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/500/124-2488_IMG.JPG
Um... What have you been hauling? Elephants?
The five rear mountings are clearly visible on the rear crossmember in your photo, the front mounts are located on the rear outriggers, located behind the seats. It's hard to tell in the photo, but the back may need to come up, or the front go down. There really isn't much adjustment for the tub. Get underneath the truck and see if one of the tub crossbraces has failed. Each crossbrace rests on a little perch welded to the frame.
Bostonian1976
03-29-2007, 09:51 AM
Um... What have you been hauling? Elephants?
The five rear mountings are clearly visible on the rear crossmember in your photo, the front mounts are located on the rear outriggers, located behind the seats. It's hard to tell in the photo, but the back may need to come up, or the front go down. There really isn't much adjustment for the tub. Get underneath the truck and see if one of the tub crossbraces has failed. Each crossbrace rests on a little perch welded to the frame.
This is the way I bought the truck and it always bothers me when I look at it. Plus the doors don't close so well.....and the galvi doesn't line up at all between the doors and tub. You don't think the front will push down well? I feel like that's all it needs........a good shove downward in the front of the tub....but I could be wrong??????
So I just need to get under the truck in the middle and loosen those? Then stomp on the front of the tub? :)
Bostonian1976
03-29-2007, 12:00 PM
anyone? will they be really obvious when I see them?
daveb
03-29-2007, 12:11 PM
there are five tabs across the back. there are also two or four tabs at the front of the rear tub depending on what frame you have (early or late)
all of this will be pretty obvious when you crawl under the car.
it looks like the front needs to tip down and the back needs to come up.
was your frame ever repaired i.e new outriggers and/or crossmember?
anyone? will they be really obvious when I see them?
Bostonian1976
03-29-2007, 12:15 PM
there are five tabs across the back. there are also two or four tabs at the front of the rear tub depending on what frame you have (early or late)
all of this will be pretty obvious when you crawl under the car.
it looks like the front needs to tip down and the back needs to come up.
was your frame ever repaired i.e new outriggers and/or crossmember?
thank you! The whole truck is completely rebuilt.......I think there's still a Land Rover sticker on the new-looking frame. (I didn't know Land Rover directly supplied frames...but the sticker is there). My guess is that either someone didn't know how to bolt the tub down, or it came loose after awhile and worked its way up?
daveb
03-29-2007, 12:29 PM
getting the body panels to line up seems to be the hardest thing in a rebuild.
sometimes holes need to made bigger. sometimes parts need to be shimmed.
there is adjustment at the bulkhead, which can tilt and slide back and forth.
doors tilt up and down and move forward or back.
door latches move up and down and sideways and can be shimmed forward
rear tub moves as described.
front fenders mount flush to the firewall but there is ajustment built in to where they bolt to the rad panel and where the rad panel bolts to the frame.
I can usually get the doors to shut properly and more or less line up but if it is someone else's truck I won't let them watch me do it...:eek:
My guess is that either someone didn't know how to bolt the tub down, or it came loose after awhile and worked its way up?
The tub really doesn't adjust. Remove all the mounting bolts, and make sure it is sitting firmly on the frame pads, and centered side-to-side in relation to the frame. Also, there is supposed to be some canvas pads between the frame and the tub cross members. If these were deleted for some reason (or really worn out), the tub would be "balanced" on the mounting bolts, and any cargo you put in the tub will begin to crush the tub down to meet the frame pads. I added some rubber pads in addition to the worn factory ones to fill the gap on my series... The seat box also bolts to the tub, and this may need to be un-done to get the tub to settle and relax on the frame as it should.
Once the tub is sitting flat and square, then tighten the mounting bolts, starting with the rear 10, and then adding shims/washers (if needed) for the front mounting points. The key is you don't want to stress the tub tightening it up. Once this is done, loosen the door hinges and remove the strikers and all door seal gaskets.
Align the door with the tub, DON'T try to align the tub with the door. This is a bad idea, and will end up destroying the tub (see note above about balancing it rather than having it rest on the frame). If the doors cannot be made to align, loosen the bulkhead and get it all lined up right. Once the doors and bulkhead are right (even gap front and rear, body lines lined up straight) install the striker, and the body should be flush with the door with it fully latched closed. Finally add the gaskets, and you're done! (unless you had to remove the fenders to adjust the bulkhead)
Long story short (too late), the tub goes on the frame first, and then the rest of the truck is adjusted to meet that. You can't do it any other way (properly). It appears that someone built that truck not knowing what order to assemble it in...
Bostonian1976
03-29-2007, 12:35 PM
thank you! When you say the tub ends up getting destroyed if it's done improperly, I'm not sure I follow. Where/how does it get destroyed?
edit: I understand now :)
Usually around the rear tabs is where it fails- a combination of mechanical stress and galvanic corrosion.
If the tub wants to be on the frame, and it will bend the tub, oval-ize the mounting holes and what ever else it needs to do to get the tub on the frame. This is why it is so important to get the tub on the frame to start with, so this doesn't happen.
Someone posted about the rear cross member replacement (which is common on old series trucks). If this was done, and not aligned properly, you may never be able to get it right...:eek:
Bostonian1976
03-29-2007, 01:04 PM
the whole entire frame is new.......I imagine pretty much everything was redone on this truck (one of the big reasons I'm looking forward to my gray rover..........completely untouched).
It seems the person knew what they were doing though......everything is neat and orderly and you can tell they cared about details. There's no visible damage/corrosion anywhere on the truck, including those rear tabs and the metal it connects to. Hmmm. Sounds like it's gonna be finicky. I imagine the top needs to be off too........making this a job I can't do myself....
Your pic shows the top off, so I assumed this was how it is now. If the body is that out of whack, I imagine the doors leak very nicely...:thumb-up:
If there is NO corrosion around the tub mounting holes and the frame is new, there is cheese in the tub, hiding God knows what. The nicest, rust-free original series trucks show corrosion around these mounting tabs, there is no way around it. Heck, my 1995 110 has corrosion all around this area!
It seems they had good intentions in mind, but no idea how to properly assemble the body on the frame, which you can't blame someone for if they haven't done it before. Honestly, the best thing to do is to strip it down, start from the rear per my earlier post, and re-assemble it correctly. It is a ton of work, but saves so much aggravation in the long run...
Bostonian1976
03-29-2007, 01:24 PM
Yeah the top is back on.....the tops of the doors around the windows don't even come close to meeting up to the roof.......the passenger's door fully closes, and the driver's door closes one notch.
I seriously don't think there's any filler in the body/frame. I just think it was rebuilt and hasn't seen much use since the rebuilt. None of the bolts have any rust, etc. It's very clean (despite the dents, etc)
Tim Smith
03-29-2007, 07:54 PM
The advice from J!m sounds spot on :thumb-up: but before I started, I'd also want to run a string from the rear of the truck (at the top of the galvy capping) to the front. Tape it tight and then you should be able to see/measure just how much you need to adjust and where.
I'll bet a pint that the front fenders need to be pushed down a little to tilt the bulkhead -> doors up a bit but I'm guessing here.
I've yet to start my own reassembly but will probably take a look at this string before I start. Looks like some good advice!
Bostonian1976
03-31-2007, 06:06 PM
took another picture of the section today. I think the right side fits better than the left (the door on that side closes better as well)
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/DSC00341.JPG
Another thought:
Since you have the older hinges, make sure you get some new hinge balls, bolts and springs and rebuild them before you start trying to line everything up. If the new balls don't tighten them up, you may have to find some nicer hinge castings too.
If the hinges are "floppy" (open door can be moved up and down) it will make the project more difficult for you...
Did not think of it until I saw the last picture and realized you have the older style hinges like I have on my '71...
The same also applies for the series III and defenders. Replace the hinges before you try to line this all up (unless they are nice and tight).
Bostonian1976
04-02-2007, 07:38 AM
Another thought:
Since you have the older hinges, make sure you get some new hinge balls, bolts and springs and rebuild them before you start trying to line everything up. If the new balls don't tighten them up, you may have to find some nicer hinge castings too.
If the hinges are "floppy" (open door can be moved up and down) it will make the project more difficult for you...
Did not think of it until I saw the last picture and realized you have the older style hinges like I have on my '71...
The same also applies for the series III and defenders. Replace the hinges before you try to line this all up (unless they are nice and tight).
very good thought. It was actually the first thing I did when I bought the truck, thinking it would be an easy fix. Unfortunately it didnt' do much....this whole lining-up business is more tricky than I anticipated!
The line-up is easiest when you assemble the truck fresh.
Doing it later, as you are doing, is quite a project. Basically, you have to all but completely disassemble the truck, and then reassemble it making sure all the pieces are in place and lined up correctly.
With a fresh build, you can expect to spend about four or five hours getting it all lined up right (the more trucks you do, the less time it takes to get it right). In your case, I foresee an entire weekend and several gallons of beer involved...:eek:
Bostonian1976
04-02-2007, 07:51 AM
lol..........several gallons of beer and the breakfast will end up as the tailgate and the tub as the roof :)
I'll be seeking this advice again I'm sure when I disassemble/reassemble the gray one. This has given me good prep for how to do that
After looking at the first photo you posted, it looks like the rear of the tub is crushed pretty far down and bowed out by the mounting holes along the rear of the frame. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some funky stuff going on once you pull it apart. Hopefully once you loosen all the bolts (all 14 of them I think) and stomp on the tub you can get it to lie flat.
Like one of the other posters suggested I would check the tub supports that run underneath the tub and rest on the frame, it could very well be that one of those is crushed as well caused the rear to sag (which is why the rear would be bowed out). I am going to highlight what im talking about in the picture but it will take me a few to do it and host it, check back in a bit.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/G95M3/land%20rover/lrsag.jpg
The arrows point to the areas I was talking about, those panels should be completely flat. Check the cross braces (underneath tub, laying on frame) and let us know what you see. Also a better picture of that area in the rear if you have it.
Bostonian1976
04-02-2007, 05:42 PM
thanks very much for taking the time to post that. Yeah it drives me nuts and I want it resolved. I'm sure I have other pics of the rear...let me take a look....
Bostonian1976
04-02-2007, 05:58 PM
here are more pictures of the truck to give you an idea. I'll post links instead of big pictures because I think some people don't like the scroll bars that pop up with the bigger pictures (but I think they help w/ detail in this case). Let me know what you think. Thanks!!
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/Christmas_2006a_012.jpg
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/124-2491_IMG.JPG
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/124-2489_IMG.JPG
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/run_over.JPG
here are more pictures of the truck to give you an idea. I'll post links instead of big pictures because I think some people don't like the scroll bars that pop up with the bigger pictures (but I think they help w/ detail in this case). Let me know what you think. Thanks!!
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/Christmas_2006a_012.jpg
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/124-2491_IMG.JPG
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/124-2489_IMG.JPG
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/run_over.JPG
Yep to me it definitely looks like the rear is jacked down too much. I would say your next step is to get underneath and check the crossbraces under the tub, only three of them resting on the frame. If they don't look too bad you could probably just loosen all the bolts, floor jack, wood blocks, and try to get it to line up. But to me it looks like the rear needs to come up and the front needs to come down. Good luck!
Bostonian1976
08-24-2007, 10:26 AM
I still haven't done this - laziness. This will be my weekend project.
That and I still have a tropical top that I haven't put on yet - hmm
siii8873
08-25-2007, 09:30 AM
I had a similar problem when assembling my SIII. This was very evident when I installed my top. The top had a gap (~1/4") between it and the tub at the front and it could not be bolted on. It was in contact at the back and at the windscreen with a few bolts. I checked the alignment with a string line which confirmed that the tub was low at the front.
I jacked the front of the tub up until the tub came up to the top. This also aligned the tub line with the string. I then made hard rubber shims of the correct size to fill the gaps between the crossmembers and the frame tabs. I jacke the tub up a little extra and then let it down on the shims and checked each to be sure they were supporting the tub. I then jacked the tub back up and used an industrial adhesive to attach the shims to the pads.
I would check my top alignment before I went crazy with raising the front of the tub. You could go through that effort and find out that the top does not fit.
Bob
Bostonian1976
08-25-2007, 01:45 PM
I had a similar problem when assembling my SIII. This was very evident when I installed my top. The top had a gap (~1/4") between it and the tub at the front and it could not be bolted on. It was in contact at the back and at the windscreen with a few bolts. I checked the alignment with a string line which confirmed that the tub was low at the front.
I jacked the front of the tub up until the tub came up to the top. This also aligned the tub line with the string. I then made hard rubber shims of the correct size to fill the gaps between the crossmembers and the frame tabs. I jacke the tub up a little extra and then let it down on the shims and checked each to be sure they were supporting the tub. I then jacked the tub back up and used an industrial adhesive to attach the shims to the pads.
I would check my top alignment before I went crazy with raising the front of the tub. You could go through that effort and find out that the top does not fit.
Bob
Thanks for the tips. I'm up here working on this now but am giving up soon. Its 95 degrees - too hot for this. I did get one window installed on mr trop top so that is cool. One more to go
TSR53
08-25-2007, 01:59 PM
Let's see scroll bars, scroll bars (I programmed them in for YOU and this purpose). Go for it :thumb-up:
here are more pictures of the truck to give you an idea. I'll post links instead of big pictures because I think some people don't like the scroll bars that pop up with the bigger pictures (but I think they help w/ detail in this case). Let me know what you think. Thanks!!
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/Christmas_2006a_012.jpg
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/124-2491_IMG.JPG
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/124-2489_IMG.JPG
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/516/run_over.JPG
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