building a expedition ready rig what would you do??

[glbft1]

Seasons greeting to all
Wondering if you had to improve things on a land rover what would you do to upgrade to make these rigs as reliable as possible for long range travel
using the 2.25 engine .
thanks for the ideas
Greg

[crankin]

You said reliable not comfortable, correct?

[KevinNY]

A comfortable working knowledege of how to change an axle,change a bearing, adjust your valves, set your timing and troubleshoot a simple 12V circuit. That and the spares and toolbag to do it will get you pretty much anywhere.

[AU_88]

A comfortable working knowledege of how to change an axle,change a bearing, adjust your valves, set your timing and troubleshoot a simple 12V circuit. That and the spares and toolbag to do it will get you pretty much anywhere.

Agreed

[cousindave]

An uprated alternator,and I suggest a roverdrive if you have alot of pavement ahead of you.

[stomper]

While I can't argue with the above posts, I would have to add a well organized storage system for all of the gear and spares/tools. fixing anything is possible with a good working knowledge. knowing quickly where everything is to fix it is priceless!:thumb-up:

Perhaps a bit more information as to where you want to take your rig would bring on some additional thoughts. There are some great resources already out there as to what to bring. "First Overland" by Tim Slessor is a must read for anyone thinking about an expedition, and I really enjoy reading the brownchurch website, which has some great ideas too! http://www.brownchurch.co.uk/

[czenkov]

and I suggest a roverdrive if you have alot of pavement ahead of you.

And parabolic springs if you have a lot of gravel ahead of you - and maybe a pillow to sit on.

[mongoswede]

an axle conversion, 4 wheel disc brakes for easier maintenance, a more modern robust gear box with 5 speeds, aftermarket seats, bigger alternator, custom wiring harness...one with fuses and relays :D. well oiled stock springs or parabolics with good shocks.

[crankin]

I will also add that you could call a few parts supplier before hand and ask them if they would be able to expedite parts to you in case of emergencies.

Teriann will get in on this I am sure. http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/

[cousindave]

If you really want to know about long range travel with an old land rover check out www.adventureafrica.org (my rig is the white one). Read the blog and check out photos.. pretty cool.

[Momo]

If you are a real spartan, you can do it all with a stock truck and little else.

I know a guy in his early seventies who drives a soft top 109, and quite literally carries little more than a blanket, a piece of foam, and some white bread and water. But most of us are just not that ascetic.

To the current suggestions, I would add dual fuel tanks, a roof rack to free up interior space, a winch and a good set of basic recovery gear, & a strong heater and wiper motors. Well, at least strong as the factory units can be made to work.

But as others have said, the most important thing is to know how to fix broken stuff. All alone. In the Styx.

I know another guy whose gearbox broke somewhere in the Yukon. He hiked to the nearest town, ordered a new one to be sent by Greyhound bus, then hiked back to tear into the truck. He returned to get the gearbox, drug it to camp lashed to a skid made of branches, and made the repair. It was a week or two out of his time but ended up being a great experience.

I agree heartily that organization is key. You can waste a lot of frustrating time looking for a fork, a wrench, a pair dry socks or whatever... as well as packing and unpacking. Try to develop a storage and container system that works for you. Spending hours to make and break camp gets old!

[SafeAirOne]

I think the following video pretty much sums up the MUST-HAVES for "expedition" travel:

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7348071/

[AU_88]

What will you be doing?

[mongoswede]

I think the following video pretty much sums up the MUST-HAVES for "expedition" travel:

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7348071/

In the words od Duran Duran: "Everybody needs tire rotators"

[Lalo88DK]

You don't really need to change anything at all, other than make sure your Series Land Rover is well maintained. today many of us like to improve things, but it is possible to use a standard Series Land Rover. I have seen many "improvements/modifications" putting other parts on Land Rovers under big strain, which in the end resulted in failures and a stranded truck.

[solihull109]

I think KevinNY summed it up rather well. The tools and skills to repair in the field are truly invaluable.

Greg, keep it well maintained and she'll do fine. Remember, upgrades are like the domino effect, and in the end you'll have so much money tied up into the truck, you can't afford to go anywhere. Just my .02:thumb-up:

[yorker]

Seasons greeting to all
Wondering if you had to improve things on a land rover what would you do to upgrade to make these rigs as reliable as possible for long range travel
using the 2.25 engine .
thanks for the ideas
Greg

These vehicles and other primative 4X4s like them went all over the world reliably for years without any extensive modifications. They have also been used for so long that the problems they do have are very well documented and easy to contend with. Keep it as simple as possible, be proactive about maintenance and be a sympathetic driver. Buy the basic spares, buy the tools you need to change them and save the rest of your $ for gas to get out there and see the world. Otherwise you'll get bogged down in the world of never ending "improvements" and dreaming. :thumb-up:

If you want to read an interesting basic travel "expedition" read "Herman the German" by Gerhard Neumann. His journey was in a WWII Willys jeep but it is a great read.

http://www.amazon.com/Herman-German-Master-Sergeant-10500000/dp/0688016820

[luckyjoe]

I know a guy in his early seventies who drives a soft top 109, and quite literally carries little more than a blanket, a piece of foam, and some white bread and water. But most of us are just not that ascetic.

I know another guy whose gearbox broke somewhere in the Yukon. He hiked to the nearest town, ordered a new one to be sent by Greyhound bus, then hiked back to tear into the truck. He returned to get the gearbox, drug it to camp lashed to a skid made of branches, and made the repair. It was a week or two out of his time but ended up being a great experience.

OK, is it just me, or do these two individuals sum-up Series ownership! I'd gladly buy them both a beer/cup-o-joe for a few minutes of their tales. Heck, I'd buy them dinner for a decent recollection...

[Momo]

OK, is it just me, or do these two individuals sum-up Series ownership! I'd gladly buy them both a beer/cup-o-joe for a few minutes of their tales. Heck, I'd buy them dinner for a decent recollection...

Right you are. The older guy made a few trips around the world in Land Rovers in his youth including the Darien Gap. He's owned his 109 for around 40 years. He has a story for every ding and nick on that Land Rover.

[TeriAnn]

A comfortable working knowledege of how to change an axle,change a bearing, adjust your valves, set your timing and troubleshoot a simple 12V circuit. That and the spares and toolbag to do it will get you pretty much anywhere.

I agree with everyone else that knowledge is the core. But condition is king. All knowledge will do for a worn out unmaintained vehicle, is to get the vehicle repaired WHEN it breaks down on the trail. I've always been a strong believer that the best breakdown is the one you prevented through proper maintenance before you leave home.

My suggestion is to go through the vehicle as best you can to make sure that it is within factory specs.

But they do have a few weak spots it never hurts to address once you are assured that you are within factory specs. The 2 pin carrier and 10 spline axles were fine for the much lighter Series I but is marginal for an 88 and pathetic for a heavier yet 109. You didn't say if you had an 88 or a 109. Both would be lot more reliable with a 24 spline rear axle upgrade. With an 88 you buy a stronger aftermarket carrier set up for 24 splines and a pair of aftermarket hardened 24 spline rear axles. For a 109 you want to do a bolt in swap with a Series III 109 rear Salisbury axle and SIII 109 rear propshaft.

If you are using a 109 in the mountains where you might find yourself trying to hold a 109 nose up on a steep incline front disc brakes would be a very good idea as the stock 109 front drum brakes have 2 leading shoes that provide very good stopping in the forward direction and almost no stopping power in the rearward direction.

Frankly For a basic reliable Series truck that will get you out and back That's about all you really need. Knowledge on how to maintain and repair your truck, the truck within factory spec, the ability to properly drive your truck with the least amount of stress to the truck and an upgrade in the rear carrier and axles.

Anything else is just add ons for increased comfort and robustness for extreme situations.

If you want to take a little step more:

Since the stock engine does not put out a lot of power, fitting an overdrive is highly recommended for driving in the mountains. An overdrive is a two speed gearbox that splits the ratios between all gears. The additional gear ratios allow you to find the right gear for just about any driving condition.

The Series body flexes off road, especially the long wheelbase versions. This can cause doors on early Series trucks to pop open. Defender anti burst door latches solve this problem. They require a hole to be drilled in the door skin for the lock but are otherwise a bolt on upgrade.

The Series door seals are not very good. Defender door seals are better and can be used in place of the Series seals. There is an outer door lip used to hold the Series seals in place that needs to be removed to fit the Defender seals. Heated windscreens are a late model IIA option and can be retrofitted to the Series II with a little rewiring and a relay.

For additional modifications you can write a book. But basically you need to define the basic platform, your intended use and the terrain you expect to be traveling in before you can know how far to push the vehicle parameters and in which directions.

Depending upon what you might want to do there are some suggestions in my web site.

Personally, I'm all into camping comfort so I drive a class B RV that is Land Rover based:


http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/snapshots/snaps/2010MonVlyGR.jpg

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/snapshots/snaps/TWgrCampThurs%20copy.jpg

[stomper]

Greg, Do you need a partner on this expedition? 2 vehicles is the best option!:thumb-up:

[ducttape]

Greg, Do you need a partner on this expedition? 2 vehicles is the best option!:thumb-up:

Three...

[LR Max]

Well I'd get the rig where I could drive it comfortably all day and not say to myself, "This is dismal and I want to go home" nor wonder if the stupid thing is gonna explode.

Example: Right now my radiator leaks and my door weatherstripping is useless. I wouldn't take it on an expedition just because I would be miserable the entire time.

So right there, if you can't go on a weekend camping trip, you have issues.

Totally would go through the entire drivetrain. New clutch, bearings, seals. All that crap is either worn out or will be worn out. Also a more powerful engine would be VERY nice, especially in the US.

Diff lockers, most def. That expedition across the Congo REALLY made me glad I'm locked up. I think they would've saved themselves A LOT of trouble if they had a diff locker.

Storage: Need to be able to get to everything easily and not have to tear apart the truck to get to it. Rovers have spots all over to store crap. Use them.

Rear spare tire carrier. Fin.

Some way to easily setup for sleeping. Either rooftop tent, or tent cot or sleep inside or Dormobile...whatever. Make it happen.

Strong suspension and tires. Probably BFG A/Ts. They'll last forever and ever.

Front bumper. Some of these foreign countries are rough on the highways. IMO, better to do the pushing than to be receiving it.

Quality camping supplies. Nice sleeping bag + nice pad will do more for me than a fancy flashlight.

AWESOME travelling companion. Dunno how you quantify that, but there it is. Having an extra set of capable hands or a smooth talker in another language...or just having a talker can be great. For me, it would probably be my Dad. Communication is great, he is skilled in hands on crafts and we can joke about BS for hours on hours.

Sound system. I like music. My car (not the 109, my car) is all decked out with all the stuff. I would need that just because I can't stand the noise of the 2.25 all the time.

This last thing: I know it sounds craptacular, but I'm beginning to think it would make the world of difference: The Internets. Not like, surf on the internet all day but if I need important information, I can get it. Need a new podcast? New Music? Got it. Also its always great to get an email from home or send an email and let them know I'm good. This can be in the form of a smart phone, or sat-internet-thingie or whatever. Either way, it would be a nice asset to have.

All the other things will just kinda fall into place.

[yorker]

OK, is it just me, or do these two individuals sum-up Series ownership!
:thumb-up: My thoughts exactly! Take what you have and go out there! It has been done before and you too can do it.

Don't get caught up in all the gear geek goodies, get out and drive.

[albersj51]

If my rover weren't in pieces right now id be prepping for an expedition due to this thread!

[Tim Smith]

KB and TeriAnn are both right on. Perhaps written from different perspectives.

The thing is, know your truck and you'll be able to see your way out of most problems (because you will have brought spares). As you get more time out on the road or the trails then you'll know what you need best.

If you made the thread title "What would you do to your truck to make it expedition ready", you would probably get a lot more talk about the goodies. For me it would be the upgraded half shafts and a beefier differential. A locker depends on what you want to do with it. Overdrive is nice for the long highway runs but not essential.

[JimCT]

I think allot of it depends on where you will be going. If you are off the beaten path you do not want a truck with all kinds of one off custom features, in that case simple is key. On the other hand if your trips are in the states for example, and your pocket book can handle it customize to your hearts desire.

[robert wood]

I think I'm qualified to comment having owned an expedition company using IIA trucks. I'm generally on trek somewhere for part of the year with a 1983 110.

Mechanical stuff relating to series

Good quality parabolic springs. Assuming this is a 109 get the four leaf version and avoid the ones with dangling lower leaves. Good quality Shocks. My experience with OME has been good. Fit check straps as this prevents over-extension of the shocks

If you have a Series IIA, upgrade to the Salisbury axle from a Series III 109. Replace the drive flanges and axles before you leave.

Overdrive. Most of what you do is going to be on highways where it will be in use all the time and give you a very useful splitter ratio too. I used a Fairy on my longest wanderings and did not have problems as it was brand new when I left. I since designed the Roverdrive which I like to think is more robust. Don't go with a high ratio transfer box as the IIA motor will not pull much weight with this fitted.

Offset wheels. The later 109s use a wheel offset outwards by almost two inches and this gives much more stability and a smaller turning radius. Our hosts sell these (part ANR3646pm). I avoid the Wolf version as I think they are too heavy.

Front disc brakes are nice but a good alternative is the six cylinder drum type and fit a booster from a Series III.

I'd stay with a late IIA Gearbox suffix D E or F to get the stronger layshaft and better clutch release assembly. I'm not fond of Series III box - the later suffix ones are good but there are so many changes in part numbers getting correct parts is puzzeling and frustrating. SIIA parts can be found almost anywhere.

Put on a bigger alternator and the best headlights you can get and the biggest best battery that can fit in the tray. Strips of reflective tape right across the back are valuable anywhere and mandatory in parts of Africa.

If it is a IIA you can increase the compression to 8:1 by taking 0.111 off the head. Use a black composition head gasket and hardened exhaust valves. Use the simple Weber carb. With the overdrive you will have a very sweet spot for the Weber at about 55mph. A five main bearing engine would be nice.

Fit an electric fuel pump mounted at the tank. In very hot climates the flow of fuel only just cools the mechanical pump and when you stop fuel in the pump vaporizes and you can't drive off. With a 109 on a steep grade the problem is worse as the pump has to draw fuel uphill from the tank.

Well installed soundproofing is money well spent. I'm in my seventies and hard of hearing from driving Series all my life.

A strong secure locker somewhere to keep valuables is a must as is an immobilizer which need be nothing more than a hidden tap in the fuel line.

The antiburst locks someone has suggested above is a good idea and the 110 mirror system is a huge improvement on the series type.

Add a second fuel tank and avoid Jerry cans. A built in water tank is undesirable. Use rectangular shaped water cans and stow them marked so you know what water is drinkable and what is not.

You can tell an inexperienced expedition truck owner from miles away as the depth of his ignorance is inversely proportional to the size and weight of his roof rack and content thereof. All we have on the roof of our II0 is a tent and the area forward of the tent is a great big sunroof so we can stand up or sit on the roof in game parks which is awesome.

I am blessed with a wife who can cross Africa with one change of clothes and a toothbrush. Pictures of our recent expeditions are on the Roverdrive website and look out for us in our in North Africa April and May next year. Happy Christmas.................

Ray

[RoverForm]

I think the following video pretty much sums up the MUST-HAVES for "expedition" travel:

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7348071/
extremely informative...

[TeriAnn]

You can tell an inexperienced expedition truck owner from miles away as the depth of his ignorance is inversely proportional to the size and weight of his roof rack and content thereof

Add a second fuel tank and avoid Jerry cans. A built in water tank is undesirable. Use rectangular shaped water cans and stow them marked so you know what water is drinkable and what is not.


I fully agree with Ray when it comes to roof rack loads. These trucks have a very narrow track and anything you can do to lower the vehicle centre of gravity helps. I have seen heavily loaded Defenders and Series trucks tip over where they would not have with a much lighter or no load.

My 109 2 door has a rear station wagon fuel tank and two front under seat tanks for a total of 42 gallons of fuel at the frame level. If I carried extra fuel it would be in a trailer and not on the roof.

I disagree with Ray about built in water tanks, but mine is feeding two sinks inside the Dormobile with an electric pump. I found unused space at frame level that doesn't not take up any interior space and had a stainless steel water tank fabricated to fit in the space. It holds the equivalent of three 20L gerry cans of water, all at frame level to help keep the centre of gravity as low as possible and not taking up any usable interior space.

The tank has a removable top access hatch for doing visual inspections and manual cleaning if needed. There is also a drain plug at a bottom corner for easy draining. The key is to sanitize the tank with bleach periodically. I sanitize the tank every 3 months. When I'm around home I do not keep a filter in the water filter assembly because one can easily grow algae/bacteria or other micro organisms if it is just left sitting with stagnant water. When I go on trips I insert a fresh filter. For my set up I think a built in makes sense and really helps to keep the weight low. But they do require frequent sanitation like the big RV tanks.

I often feel a bit embarrassed by the amount of gear I load onto the roof rack for trips. But I keep the rear interior empty to provide space for a giant breed dog. I have a built in 5 gallon propane tank, again at frame level. I've discovered that it always runs out of propane while I am cooking dinner and the food is too uncooked to eat. So I have a 2 gallon spare aluminum propane tank that I keep on the roof rack inside a section of ABS pipe. Also since I do not have a way to tell the water level in my built in tank beyond experience, I have a surplus 10L French wine gerry can that is lined that I fill with water and store on the roof rack (under but close to 25 lbs full).

I have a foot and a half square sheet of thick plywood that goes on the rack to put under a jack if I need to use one. A folding camp chair, And I have a plastic tote that goes up there as well. The tote carries a short water hose I can use for refilling my water tank, a propane hose for connecting my spare propane tank, Sometimes a long extension cord (I can run the Dormobile electrics off the mains if I'm in a campground) a nylon tarp if I need an awning, a roll of thick nylon twine for tying down the nylon tarp, two axle jacks, and a grease gun. I fear the tote could weigh about 30 lbs including the two axle jacks. My guess is between 65 and 75 lbs total load on my roof rack when I'm on a long trip. I try to keep weight down as much as I can but I need to keep the rear of the truck empty.

Someone mentioned All terrain tyres. They work in some surfaces but not on others. Again, the better you can define where you want to drive and what you want your truck to do the better you can figure out what works and what would just be extra useless weight. Start off on short trips of the kind you want to do and gain experience. There is no substitute for experience to help you decide what you need and what you don't. Try not to add gear beyond the minimum basics until experience tells you that you actually need it. Off road bling costs money, adds weight, takes up space and can leave your truck less capable for the kind of travel you do.

And as someone else mentioned a good measure of of how successful your gear is for the travel you intend to do is your comfort level. How long can you go and still be eager to see what's over the next hill verses the desire to head home or find a motel where you can get a good nights sleep, a shower, get clean and buy a good meal.

[I Leak Oil]

Comfortable seats.....driving a series is a lot less tiresome when you're in a comfortable seat. Stock, defender, aftermarket, volvo...whatever you find comfortable will be a huge benefit.

[JimCT]

1968 Marshall ambulance with Caranex tent

[yorker]

I've often thought one of these tents would be kind of handy:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ex-Army-9x9-Landrover-tent-Complete-/220708418881?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item33633f3541

[SafeAirOne]

extremely informative...


I know, I know...

I've just seen so much "required" equipment for "expedition" travel on a certain other "expedition" website that I'm ready to throw up. You'd need a 5-ton truck to haul all that "must-have" rubbish.

A reliable vehicle, a good attitude and a comfortable pair of hiking boots (in case your vehicle isn't so reliable) is a good start.

[TeriAnn]

I know, I know...

I've just seen so much "required" equipment for "expedition" travel on a certain other "expedition" website that I'm ready to throw up. You'd need a 5-ton truck to haul all that "must-have" rubbish.

A reliable vehicle, a good attitude and a comfortable pair of hiking boots (in case your vehicle isn't so reliable) is a good start.

I started by taking trips with my 109 and my back packing gear. Over the years as experience grew I added things as I decided I wanted/needed them. Some things didn't work as I imagined they would and got culled from my gear, some were perfect. In typical female fashion I went a lot more into camping creature comforts than most men would even consider for themselves. But it is what makes traveling comfortable and more enjoyable for me and keeps me happy on the trail longer. To minimize stress, we each need to gear up to our comfort level for the kinds of travel we do. And it will be different for each person. I agree the best way to do it is to start minimalistic with gear, get your truck into the best condition you can and start out with short trips of the kind you anticipate doing.

Get your truck within factory spec, start minimalistic and add only things that your experience tells you that you have a need for. Everyone's needs are different.

[Lalo88DK]

I started by taking trips with my 109 and my back packing gear. Over the years as experience grew I added things as I decided I wanted/needed them. Some things didn't work as I imagined they would and got culled from my gear, some were perfect. In typical female fashion I went a lot more into camping creature comforts than most men would even consider for themselves. But it is what makes traveling comfortable and more enjoyable for me and keeps me happy on the trail longer. To minimize stress, we each need to gear up to our comfort level for the kinds of travel we do. And it will be different for each person. I agree the best way to do it is to start minimalistic with gear, get your truck into the best condition you can and start out with short trips of the kind you anticipate doing.

Get your truck within factory spec, start minimalistic and add only things that your experience tells you that you have a need for. Everyone's needs are different.


I could not agree more :thumb-up:

[SafeAirOne]

Well put TeriAnn.

[RoverForm]

Get your truck within factory spec, start minimalistic and add only things that your experience tells you that you have a need for. Everyone's needs are different.

A reliable vehicle, a good attitude and a comfortable pair of hiking boots (in case your vehicle isn't so reliable) is a good start.

sound advice.

i'm working on the factory spec status right now. want to get it to original reliable condition, then decide what to fit while maintaining a minimalist aesthetic.

[glbft1]

Thanks everyone for all the great info, I think I will keep as basic as possible and weed out the weak links as I go:thumb-up:

[solihull109]

Thanks everyone for all the great info, I think I will keep as basic as possible and weed out the weak links as I go:thumb-up:

However,.....you do have a RRC that could*donate* it's axles for a coiler swap, which would provide a smoother ride.....:D

We need to talk, I have the new leaf springs:thumb-up: sorted out.....

[Crash]

Just in the process of rebuilding my axles.

Where would I look for an aftermarket carrier and 24 spline rear half shafts???

C

[solihull109]

Just in the process of rebuilding my axles.

Where would I look for an aftermarket carrier and 24 spline rear half shafts???

C

ARB for the carrier(why go open?) and Series Trek for the axles.

[sleam]

OK, is it just me, or do these two individuals sum-up Series ownership! I'd gladly buy them both a beer/cup-o-joe for a few minutes of their tales. Heck, I'd buy them dinner for a decent recollection...

Damn inspiring, thats all I can say! I'm learning from all this to keep simple, travel light and have a good fix it kit/ tools and take it slow and easy, right? Have fun wherever you end up!