Rear Brake Install

[Crash]

I have to be missing something here. I am rebuilidng an SIIa but incorporating the axles from my SIII as the old ones are in rough shape.

I cleaned up the backing plates and installed a new distance piece on the spindle, regreased the hub bearings and began to install the brakes.

Backing plate on with adjuster towards front of the vehicle, leading edge shoe and trailing shoe installed with springs on backing plate side of shoe and banjo retainer on the bottom. Matches up with original setup and my reference material.

With the hub in place the drum will not sit tight as if it is hitting something in the area of the leading shoe!! I took an old shoe and I can get the drum to sit tight?

New shoe matches the old one in size just more lining on it.

Anything obvious that I am missing here.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x376/Bigring/Landy%20Brakes/DSCN1968.jpg


http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x376/Bigring/Landy%20Brakes/DSCN1970.jpg

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x376/Bigring/Landy%20Brakes/DSCN1972.jpg

Both ends of the axle have the same issue. It is almost as if the hub and back plate are not aligned!!!

C

[rickv100]

Crash,

Have you checked the brake shoe adjuster? There is a bolt on the backside of the plate to adjust the toe in and toe out of the shoes. That might be causing the shoe to hit the drum since the old ones were worn in.

Snail cams turned to lowest point? Did you compress back the brake cylinders since now there is more material on the brake shoes?

Rick

[Crash]

I had another look last night and there is no adjustment bolt on the shoes!! Only points of contact are the cylinder, bottom anchor point and the backing plate where it is stamped in - maybe in place of the old steady posts.

I am stumped as the drum fits in fine without the hub on - lots of clearance around the shoes ie no interference.

I am going to start over tonight to see if I can uncover any missed steps.

C

[Les Parker]

Hello there,

Do you have a pic. with hub removed?
Seems a bit curious if the brake shoe does not have the adjuster pin on the rear, as this is where the red top spring should also be fastened to.

:confused:

[Jim-ME]

I ran into the same issue ith my rear brakes and ended up grinding the lining on the shoes shoes to fit the drums. You may have to do the same.
Jim

[Crash]

The shoe has the pin for the spring that rests on the adjuster cam. The red spring is connected from there to the other anchor pin on the backing plate.

I will post another picture tonight without the hub.

C

[Crash]

Some more pic's

Backing Plate

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x376/Bigring/Landy%20Brakes/Brakes/DSCN2037.jpg

Shoes installed

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x376/Bigring/Landy%20Brakes/Brakes/DSCN2033.jpg

To try the drum with no shoes

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x376/Bigring/Landy%20Brakes/Brakes/DSCN2034.jpg

Drum and no shoes - turns freely and is positioned evenly against backing plate.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x376/Bigring/Landy%20Brakes/Brakes/DSCN2036.jpg


I resintalled the shoes and the drum is as shown in a previous photo with the screw driver. It will not push tight to the backing plate along the top edge.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x376/Bigring/Landy%20Brakes/DSCN1970.jpg

I can turn the drum but if I tighten the lugs it will not. If I spin the drum back and forth with pressure it will not align. The shoes are compressed to fit the drum on and the adjuster is backed off.

I am stumped!

C

[bkreutz]

Are those new drums? If so maybe they're machined incorrectly. (Just a random thought)

[jac04]

You said that the drum fits fine when using the old shoes (or no shoes). This indicates a problem with the new shoes. However, you stated that the drum fits fine without the hub in place. This indicates a problem with the hub (or hub position relative to the backing plate). Definitely an interesting problem.

Those look like Britpart shoes. If so, you may want to more carefully compare them to your originals. Sometimes Britpart doesn't get things quite right. One thing I have seen on Britpart shoes is that the posts on the shoes (the ones that contact the adjuster) are too long and they hit the backing plate. This causes the shoes to sit slightly cocked and doesn't allow the drum to go on all the way. Double check these posts against the originals and trim the length if necessary.

Another thought: Were the SIII brakes from a rationalized axle (with oil catchers and different stub axles & hubs)? If so, maybe something isn't interchangeable.

[Crash]

Drums and brakes from our host :thumb-up: - Proline.

Drum on a couple of different hubs align with back plate on this axle and a spare in the shop. Tried all 4 new drums and same scenario. The adjuster post is clear of the back plate. On new and old axle drum won't align with the shoes in place.

I don't believe it is a rationlaized axle from a little research

It boils down to the shoes or the drum are off spec.:confused:

Have contacted RN and am awaiting a solution.http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif

I am getting good at removing and installing brake shoes.

C

[jac04]

Proline = Britpart in some instances. How do the adjuster post lengths compare to the original shoes? Sometimes they foul against the base of the adjuster assembly and not the backplate.

[bmohan55]

IIRC when I bought my proline shoes about 2 years ago they were allmakes. they fit fine for me.

[I Leak Oil]

The shoes I bought as ProLine back in August are Britpart. I haven't had the stomach to fit them yet so I'm keeping them as emergency spares only. I suspect they'll fit as poorly as the other Britpart parts I've had the displeasure of fitting in the past.

[SafeAirOne]

I can't remember...Do the rear brakes have the adjustable steady posts too, or just the fronts?

FROM THE SIII WSM:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5331048263_372079641d_b.jpg

[jac04]

I can't remember...Do the rear brakes have the adjustable steady posts too, or just the fronts?

Adjustable steady posts are only on the front 11" twin leading shoe brakes.

[Crash]

No word from RN yet. I started this with Les a few days ago. Any email I send from a few mail addresses here seems to get lost or blocked heading south over the border!

In any case I will be back in the shop on the weekend and will be looking at the old shoes to see what the difference is. Right now it is a little chilly out there and it takes a couple of hours to warm the place up. My first look suggests that the lining is aligned differently and this may be a clue as to why the drum won't align at the top of the backing plate. The contact points for the drum appear to be the top edge of the lining on the shoes. This may be where others have filed the lining down. Who knows really!

I will also be checking for contact between the adjuster and the post the spring is affixed to.

I really need to solve this so I can get the frame on wheels and move it into the shop so I can begin to get the bulkhead together and begin reassembly of everything else. I recently sourced a nice low mileage diesel engine complete with transmission, transfer case and an overdrive for a great price. I am hopeful that it might even be driveable this summer.

More over the weekend! Thanks for the tips so far.

C

[rickv100]

Crash,

I was reading the manual extract and the part about the brake shoe width caught my eye.

Perhaps they sent the wrong width shoes?

Rick

[bmohan55]

Thinking back to my brake job, I also had my drums turned, that might have given me the necessary clearance.

[Les Parker]

Have you tried one of your spare hubs with the new brake drums and shoes?
It seems like a compatability issue.
We have sold many sets of the Proline brake shoes with no issue of hub/shoe/drum fitment.
Have you tried marking the outer edge of the shoe with some engineers blue (or similar) and see if it leaves a mark on the inside of the drum after fit/remove?

[TJR]

Have you tried one of your spare hubs with the new brake drums and shoes?
It seems like a compatability issue.
We have sold many sets of the Proline brake shoes with no issue of hub/shoe/drum fitment.
Have you tried marking the outer edge of the shoe with some engineers blue (or similar) and see if it leaves a mark on the inside of the drum after fit/remove?

Les is right.. Even a bit of grease or chalk could point you to where the interference is. If you don't have dial calipers and all, I 'd grab a tape measure , a sqaure and some wood pieces to use a depth gages and then and compare the new vs old. It looks like your off by enough for those tools to be precise enough.

..Talbot

[jac04]

Some more pic's
Shoes installed

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x376/Bigring/Landy%20Brakes/Brakes/DSCN2033.jpg



I know it's been a while, but did you ever figure this out?

If not, your top spring is on the wrong side of the adjuster cam. That will cause problems for sure.