alternator kit installation questions (update with pics)

[zebrarover]

I got an Alternator Bracket Kit from Robert Davis 5+ years ago that I'm finally going to install but I have a few questions before I start. Has anyone installed one of these and if so are there any tricks other than what is in his instructions?

The instructions say to remove the starter dog and the crank pulley so the bracket bolts can be removed/installed. As I've never done this before I was wondering if I need to drain the block first before I remove the pulley?

Also, I was wondering if I need to drain the coolant and remove the radiator before I start or can it be put on with the everything else in place (radiator, fan shroud, wings,...)?

Thanks for the help
Seth

[TeriAnn]

I got an Alternator Bracket Kit from Robert Davis 5+ years ago that I'm finally going to install but I have a few questions before I start. Has anyone installed one of these and if so are there any tricks other than what is in his instructions?

The instructions say to remove the starter dog and the crank pulley so the bracket bolts can be removed/installed.

Say what?????

I've never seen Robert's alternator kit before and I have a lot of respect for his work but Removing the crank pulley is not an easy quickly job one normally does to a completely assembled truck.

On the other hand Ike's alternator brackets are quick & easy to install and everyone I know who uses them seem happy with them


http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/products/alternatorbrackets/altbrktsmain.jpg


http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/products/alternatorbrackets/alternatorbrackets.html

[Terrys]

No, you don't need to drain anything to remove the crank pulley. Nor do you need to remove the wings, radiator, etc.
I'm curious why you need to remove the crank pulley. Is it not possible to remove the old generator bracket with it in place? I can't remember, and have no generator trucks at hand at the moment. (Though that can change like the weather)

[Lord Icon]

i concur with the ike goss set up. i replaced mine and left the old brackrts there...by the way, the belt size is 15500....don't forget, i you have a winch and you upgrade the alt, when you draw the full power from your alt, it all has to go through that little wire... I am writing this from the winter romp after a full day of winching.
oh and given a choice, go for the biggest alt output you can get.
kris

[lrdukdog]

I've know Robert since college, he is a serous guy with lots of good knowledge of Rovers, and I have serous ???? about those instructions. Can you san them and post them up? I really, really can't see where you would have to remove those to install the alternator..just can't see it.
Jim Wolf

[gudjeon]

There should be no need to have to do all that to replace a gen for an alt. If it were, I would seriously reconsider that bit of kit. I put an alternator in the original position using the existing gen mounts. I only had to fabricate a through bolt, spacer, and top bracket. The large ear on the alternator was ground to make the belt line up. I have not drowned it yet being down here.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/gudjeon/Oct07005.jpghttp://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/gudjeon/Oct07006.jpg

[zebrarover]

I got the Davis Alt Conv Kit before Ike made his. Robert's kit is well made one, I was just trying to see if anyone had any pointers before I put it on.

The Instructions are:
1. Remove the old generator or alternator and all mounting brackets.
2. Remove the crank pulley nut and crank pulley.
3. Install the rear bracket (R)– bolts finger tight
4. Install the front bracket (F) with the hex spacers – bolts finger tight
5. Install the 3/8” bolt through bracket (F) into bracket (R)–finger tight
6. Tighten the bolts fastening the (F) and (R)–brackets and insure that the 3/8” bolt turns free without binding.
7. Install the crank pulley and nut.
8. Remove the 3/8” bolt and install the alternator – insure that the two spade connectors are on the top – do not fully tighten.
9. Install the fan belt.
10. Install the adjustment arm.
11. Adjust the fan belt and tighten the alternator bolts.
Pics:
4720
4721
4722

[Terrys]

Could you take one more picture looking horizontally from the side?

[zebrarover]

all of these pics are ones that Robert sent me when I bought the kit. He has always been very helpful. I've just been wondering if anyone has put one of these kits on without removing the crank pulley.
Thanks for the help
Seth

4723
4724
4725

[Terrys]

The lowest of the three bolts on the main mount looks like it i slightly behind the pulley, and that is a long bolt, so I guess that's the obvious reason. I'm sure it's just the angle, but the picture looking down on the tensioner arm looks like it's bent.
I've never bought one of Ike's mounts, but there was one on a 109 I bought. I felt it could have been a few inches lower, simply to give the fan pulley more belt contact. I also thought the angle of the load on the tensioner arm wasn't ideal, as the engine end of the arm was more vertical, than facing the alternator. Whatever, my concerns were unwarrented, as I never had any problems with belt tension, or fan slip

[kevkon]

I think that kit is designed to encourage a complete engine conversion:D

[zebrarover]

Talked with Robert this morning. He was very helpful. He said that the crank pulley definitely has to come off to put the bracket on. I might let the mechanic tackle this one. We'll see ...
:thumb-up:

[TeriAnn]

Talked with Robert this morning. He was very helpful. He said that the crank pulley definitely has to come off to put the bracket on. I might let the mechanic tackle this one. We'll see ...
:thumb-up:

As I recall a socket & breaker bar will only turn the engine and not loosen the pulley bolt. I believe you need to pull the grille & radiator then use an impact wrench on it. Good time to flush the cooling system.

[Terrys]

Put a socket on the dog, rest your breaker bar on the top of the left frame rail, pull the coil wire and bump the starter. Works like a charm.

[JackIIA]

Put a socket on the dog, rest your breaker bar on the top of the left frame rail, pull the coil wire and bump the starter. Works like a charm.


that's brilliant. must be the maple syrup.

[bkreutz]

x2 on pulling the coil wire. I worked at a Lexus dealer where one of my shop buddies didn't do this, the engine started and ripped water and trans cooler lines off as it whipped around.:eek: He was not a happy fellow.

[lrdukdog]

"must be the maple syrup"
Let me know when it's time please.
Jim Wolf

[Terrys]

"must be the maple syrup"
Let me know when it's time please.
Jim Wolf
You mean "Is It Soup Yet?
It's time.

[I Leak Oil]

Wow, all that just to install an alternator? Sell the kit, buy Ike's or make the existing brackets work. Still less work than removing all that.

[chrismccarthy]

Put a socket on the dog, rest your breaker bar on the top of the left frame rail, pull the coil wire and bump the starter. Works like a charm.

yeah that works to take if off, but that means the torque to replace it to the crank must be 100-150#? how do you replace it without turning the engine over?

[TeriAnn]

yeah that works to take if off, but that means the torque to replace it to the crank must be 100-150#? how do you replace it without turning the engine over?

One could put the gearboxes into low range first, lock front hubs then set the mechanical brake. maybe have someone step on the hydraulic brakes if needed.

[Terrys]

how do you replace it without turning the engine over?
A common trick is to remove the starter and put a large screwdriver into the ring gear, while someone else tightens the dog. As TeriAnn says, just have someone step on the brake. I think she said something about lo range,first gear, but that is the highest ratio, least torque load for the engine. Hi range 4th is the lowest ratio, greatest torque load to the engine. Put your hand crank in and try and move the truck either way. You'll see it's much easier to move the higher the ratio (lowest gear) applying the least torque through the starter dog to crank. Whatever gear/range, stepping on the brakes should hold it to get it torqued down.

[TeriAnn]

I think she said something about lo range,first gear, but that is the highest ratio, least torque load for the engine. Hi range 4th is the lowest ratio, greatest torque load to the engine.

Opps sorry. Got it backwards. I'm still working out clockwise and counterclockwise too. Can't remember if you are looking at the clock or you are the clock & your arms are the clock arms. :confused:

[Terrys]

Opps sorry. Got it backwards. I'm still working out clockwise and counterclockwise too. Can't remember if you are looking at the clock or you are the clock & your arms are the clock arms. :confused:
Happens to me all the time. My daughter gets her biggest laugh of the day watching me tie my shoes. She wants to video it and put it on Youtube.

[bmohan55]

When I did my front end engine work in order to "freeze" the motor I pulled the #1 spark plug and put a length of rope down in the cylinder. As I torqued the dog down the piston wedged against the rope and froze the crank allowing me to tighten to spec. Reversed the crank a bit and pulled the rope out, no problems.

Considering my wife's "love" of my Series I did not trust her to keep her foot on the brake....

[kevkon]

I can't believe anyone would go to all of this trouble for an alternator bracket. If the motor was out and on a stand, ok. Not to mention the potential problems that this proceedure can bring about. Is there some great advantage to this mount?

[Terrys]

I can't believe anyone would go to all of this trouble for an alternator bracket. If the motor was out and on a stand, ok. Not to mention the potential problems that this proceedure can bring about. Is there some great advantage to this mount?
I can't disagree, it does seem like a bit of a bother when you compare the ease of installing Ikes bracket. (or, simply leaving well enough alone)
However, this topic does have usefull hints for someone wanting to change their front seal. I will never forget the time I pulled my front pulley to change the front seal, on my very first series, nearly 40 years ago. when I went to reinstall the pulley, it pushed the woodruff key out of it's slot, and it fell into the bowels of the front cover. I believe I may have used every single expletive I learned in 8 years of Merchant Marine service.

[LaneRover]

I believe I may have used every single expletive I learned in 8 years of Merchant Marine service.

Wow! That must have lasted as long as it took to get the thing back out!

[chrismccarthy]

wait a sec, i call BS on that 'rope' trick, wouldn't the chance of fibers ruining the cylinder liner & rings kinda WAY out weigh the benefit of doing this work by oneself? really? rope in the cylinder?? my brother was a magician of some note, but even he couldn't make rope disappear quite as effectively...

[chrismccarthy]

no one said what the torque is on that piece of hardware?

[bmohan55]

wait a sec, i call BS on that 'rope' trick, wouldn't the chance of fibers ruining the cylinder liner & rings kinda WAY out weigh the benefit of doing this work by oneself? really? rope in the cylinder?? my brother was a magician of some note, but even he couldn't make rope disappear quite as effectively...

It worked for me, the old school mechanics here at work suggested it to me, claimed to have done it many times with no ill effects, I trust them. I used regular clothes line, just a little bit in the cylinder with the rest hanging out. As with any and all advice, make up your own mind. :)

[Terrys]

no one said what the torque is on that pece of hardware?
The manual is typically vague in that whole department.
Removal instructions are as follows:
"Fan driving pulley, to remove Operation A/112
1. Remove the starting dog pulley nut with special tool, part No. 530102, then withdraw pulley."

"Fan driving pulley, to replace, Operation A/166
1. Examine the hub of the pulley for excessive wear, and if necessary
fit a replacement.
2. Locate the pulley on the crankshaft and key, then secure with the locking washer and starting dog."

No mention whatever of torque spec, but the flywheel bolts are 50 ft.lbs.
Given that the rotation is against the thread direction, Good n' tight is probably good enough. Seems to me the Defender manual called for something in newton meters equal to about 85 ft.lbs.

[chrismccarthy]

It worked for me, the old school mechanics here at work suggested it to me, claimed to have done it many times with no ill effects, I trust them. I used regular clothes line, just a little bit in the cylinder with the rest hanging out. As with any and all advice, make up your own mind. :)

that is Cray--ze. i've got to look this up, wonder if Snopes has a posting on it?
bmohan, you are the man...what an idea. got any other tricks up your sleeve, i want to come hang out with you sometime, Mac Guiver...

[I Leak Oil]

The rope trick is an oldie but a goodie! Works well for changing valve springs without removing the head also. Just make sure you're on the compression stroke when you use it and not the exhaust stroke or you can bend a valve.

[bkreutz]

I've also used the "rope trick" to break loose a stubborn head (after the bolts are out of course). Better than beating on the head with a mallet or trying to pry it loose.

[Terrys]

I worked on a long'line tug when I was young that had 2 Fairbanks Morse OPs. That's a 2 crank 9 cylinder, 18 piston engine. We lost an engine, and the props were reversable pitch props that got their hydraulic power from each engine, so the engine wanted towindmill when we got back underway. The chief pulled an injector and pumped the cylinder full of grease.

[bmohan55]

Wecome to hang out...you bring the beer & I'll supply the cigars. Then I could tell you about the "dollar bill trick" for checking a stuck exhust valve!:thumb-up: