Series II and IIA Engines

[JackIIA]

Anyone know what the differences are between a Series II and Series IIA engines?



You’d think this would have been covered somewhere, but I haven’t been able to find it in any sort of detail. Glencoyne is pretty vague about it, but does confirm there are differences.


They both are 2,286cc, both 3MB, and both 7:1 heads (until 8:1, and 5MB). And I believe the II and IIA shared the same engine block castings. At least initially.



All I ever recall was someone here commenting on different sized cranks or cams or something many moons ago.

[gudjeon]

As I recall, and I may miss something here, the original 2.25 as seen in early ser2 has smaller crank bearings and a different crank. The water pump is also different. I know it can be very hard to find new bearings and such parts when rebuilding. The ser2 club forum people seem to be quite knowledgeable about these things.:thumb-up:

[jac04]

I took a quick look at my II/IIA green bible. The crank journal size is all listed as the same, but the crankpin diameters are different on "early" engines. I assume crankpin diameter = area where big end of the connecting rod attaches.

[I Leak Oil]

The crank area as mentioned. Also, the head is a different casting as well as the front cover and waterpump.

[JackIIA]

Gents,

Thanks as always.

Related question from a shipping cost perspective. Blanchards tells me an engine weighs 550lbs. Terriann's site quotes it as 650lbs.

To be safe I've quoted the shipper at 650lbs. It's important because any overage gives carriers the opportunity to charge at an inflated rate relative to the different from bid price. Any idea if a palleted 2.25 engine weighs in at more than the 650lbs??

Thanks.

[Sputnicker]

I found out the hard way that there are lots of differences between the Series II and IIA motors. I bought my 60 Series II from the original owner in 1975 and I'm pretty sure it was completely original. I did a complete mechanical restoration last year and here's what I found:

1) The crankshaft had smaller rod journals and different connecting rods Than the later 2.25. Oversize bearings were not readily available from the usual sources and I liked the idea of the stronger crank, so I sourced a later crank and reconditioned rods.

2) The main bearings are the same size, but the tabs that keep the shells from spinning are reversed. I had to notch the main journals on the block and bearing caps to accept the later-style bearing shells. Easy fix with a die grinder, but must be done carefully.

3) The front timing cover (cast iron) is different and so is the smaller (8-hole) water pump. The rebuild kit (bearing, seal and impeller) is the same, so I rebuilt the original. The timing chain tensioner is the early style and there is no long 2-hole rubbing block like on the later ones.

4) If you are using one of Ike's alternator brackets with the earlier style timing cover, you will need a shorter belt. Mine is 47.5"

5) The early-style 7:1 cylinder head (there are 2 versions) has a two-piece rocker shaft, which will not fit on the later heads. The bolt pattern for the rocker pedestals is different and so is the rocker cover. I switched to an 8:1 head, so I had to find the later (one-piece) rocker assembly, including pedestals, and valve cover. You can tell the earlier version easily because the middle of the three nuts that hold on the valve cover is offset about 1/4". They all line up perfectly on the later head.

6) The thermostat housing is one-piece and uses a different thermostat which is no longer available and was less reliable to begin with. I sourced the later style two-piece housing.

7) The flywheel has 2 locating pins for the pressure plate instead of 3. The later clutch works, but I had to grind the top of the unused locating pin slightly so it wouldn't interfere with the pressure plate. I took the same amount of material off the other pin to maintain balance. To avoid installing the pressure plate off-center, I pivoted it on the one locating pin until the bolt holes were all centered.

8) The original color of the early engine is a machinery gray.

9) The exhaust manifold exits to the side instead of straight down.

That's everything I can think of. Most of the parts suppliers don't list the earlier parts (or acknowledge that they exist). The parts manual on the CD does show the earlier parts and part numbers, if you look carefully.

My guess is that most of the S-IIs out there have been upgraded over the years, so yours may no longer have all the same original parts.

[JackIIA]

thanks for this detailed answer. this is the first such blow by blow i've seen anywhere online after quite a bit of reading. appreciated.

[JackIIA]

just a bump on my weight question for the 4cyl.

anyone know?

550lbs 650lbs 750lb?

[LaneRover]

I know shipping weight for my ex-mil engine in the crate was said to be 750#'s. Thats with starter, alternator everything, basically could have been started in the box.

[JackIIA]

Thanks Lane.

I actually heard back from Turner this am. They were nice enough to give me a weight for a 2.25 'full engine' with no ancillaries, in an export crate. Total was 220kg...or 485lbs. That also jibes with what I've heard from Blanchards, that the weight is no more than 550lbs. So, at 650lb rated, I should be OK.

Any idea if that 750lb rating was the result of a best guesstimate by a shipper or an exact weight? Can't imagine a starter, alternator, oil filter, etc would add that much weight, if my numbers are correct.

[LaneRover]

Could be that the military crates are a lot sturdier so that they can be stacked and stored. The engine sits on a stout steel cradle, the wood is quite heavy with 4X4's on the bottom and a pretty thick steel 'band' that bolts the top on and is strong enough to lift from the rings at the top.

All that with it being a 'complete' engine (with clutch too!) would add quite a bit of weight. I don't know if it is an exact quote but it is what RN told me when I got the thing.

Brent

[JackIIA]

OK, that makes sense to me. Thanks Brent.

[gudjeon]

Long block by itself is 500 lbs.

[mongoswede]

just a bump on my weight question for the 4cyl.

anyone know?

550lbs 650lbs 750lb?

Close to 750 pounds for a complete engine. The 302 engine swap works well because the 302 is almost the same weight so nothing has to be done to the suspension.


Edit....I must have been thinking of the weight of the engine with transmisssion and transfer case at around 750 lbs. Looks like a ford 302 is about 460 lbs.

[SGS714]

Thanks Lane.

I actually heard back from Turner this am. They were nice enough to give me a weight for a 2.25 'full engine' with no ancillaries, in an export crate. Total was 220kg...or 485lbs. That also jibes with what I've heard from Blanchards, that the weight is no more than 550lbs. So, at 650lb rated, I should be OK.

Any idea if that 750lb rating was the result of a best guesstimate by a shipper or an exact weight? Can't imagine a starter, alternator, oil filter, etc would add that much weight, if my numbers are correct.

Don't forget the weight of the pallet and stand.