P38 power steering conversion ??

[albersj51]

I had a line on a Scout 2 steering system on the cheap, but haven't heard back. Taking TAW's advice I'm looking into the p38 converson as well. What's the spline for the u-joints on the p38 system? also, am I correct that the p38 pitman arm is of the correct length so no cutting/re-reaming is needed? Also, will the p38 pitman arm fit the series tie rod ends/joints without modification?

I hear late model astro/safari vans have the perfect intermediate shaft for the scout 2 conversion, is it the same for the p38 or is there another easily sourced part that works with it?

Other than TAW's site there is little info on the p38 conversion and I want the most plug-and-play (wishful thinking, I know!), cost effective option.

Thanks for the feedback!

Jason

[albersj51]

Found the pitman arm/tie rod answer, which is yes, no mod needed.

I found another question though...which pump/hoses to use?

Thanks!

[mongoswede]

I've been thinking about installing a manual scout steering setup into my truck. The units I see share the same bolt pattern as the power units, are pretty inexpensive, and would simplify the steering linkage. Also, later if i wanted to go to power steering it will be an easier swap.

[leafsprung]

fj60 box is also very viable. Longer and greater production than P38

[albersj51]

I've looked for the fj60 box too, but haven't found many for a good price.

[leafsprung]

try Ih8mud.com I recently found 2 RHD FJ60 boxes there for 50 ea so Im guessing LHD boxes would be a cinch

[albersj51]

Thanks for the tip, Ike! I looked there a few times, but didnt see any. I'll look again. I'd have to figure out the pitman arm/tie rods/drag link.

[leafsprung]

post a want ad they will come out of the wood work, stock pitman works. Youll need to change the drag link with any swap . . .

[albersj51]

True. the original plan was to use series TRE's by cutting the drag link amd welding into larger DOM tubing...but thats just seems too cheap..even for me

[yorker]

fj60 box is also very viable. Longer and greater production than P38

I bet they are cheaper to rebuild if need be too. :thumb-up:

[albersj51]

I bet they are cheaper to rebuild if need be too. :thumb-up:

Very good point! I know the scout pumps cost my right arm to rebuild!

Question: mercedes jim recommends using fj60 TREs due to strength/availability...how do you get them to fit in the series passenger side "hub"? dont know the name, its the piece at the swivel housing where two TREs meet. Does it have to be reamed to fit, or does it slide in without modification?

[yorker]

Are you talking about the TRE taper? Jim said they fit as is IIRC. I think it has been subject to some debate on the old G&R forum, you could search there. http://gunsandrovers.yuku.com/directory

[albersj51]

Thanks, yorker...read that and it made my head spin! :)

[Mercedesrover]

FJ60 box and pitman arm, Rover tie-rod ends, 5/8" heavy wall tube tapped to the Rover 11/16"x16 thread. The Rover ends fit the Toyota pitman arm already so there's no need to figure out tapers. Here's a link to a page (http://www.seriestrek.com/steering.html) I put together about it. I run the exact same set-up on my 88 and my 109.

[albersj51]

thanks, jim! I've read through your page many times...good stuff!

Where did you get your heavy duty tie rod ends?

Also, when you sleeved the rover column, what all did you have to do? Ill likely take it to a machine shop, so I want to know what to tell them.

Thanks again!

[Mercedesrover]

I cut off the worm gear at the bottom of the shaft. The shaft is very hard so you can't turn it to a common diameter. As such, I ground it best I could and sleeved it with a 3/4" OD piece of pipe and welded it on both ends. The 3/4" OD is common for Borgeson universal joints. (http://www.borgeson.com/) I used their joints on both ends and a "double-D" slip joint in the middle. Good guys there at Borgeson.

[albersj51]

I see what you did! Looking at your pics, you slide the OD tube over the bottom 6" or so of the inner column, welded it to the column, then slid the u-joint over the OD tube then put the outter column back over it? Did you weld the u-joint to the OD tube to hold it in place or is it snug enough and the tension from the intermediate shaft holds it in place?

If thats the case, I can probably do it myself.

[Mercedesrover]

I welded it to the sleeve. The intermediate shaft needs to be a two-piece shaft that will collapse in the event of an accident. This is very important. Yes, I know that a Series truck isn't the safest thing in the world but there's no need in turning the steering column into a jousting stick aimed at your face. Some sort of slip shaft needs to go there. I use a "double-D" shaft from Borgeson.

I machined and installed a bronze bushing in the bottom of the column that rides on that sleeve as well. That's what that zerk fitting is for. The sleeve was notched for a heavy snap-ring and washer that rides on the bottom side of this bushing. This allows you to put a little pre-load on the top bearing that keeps the steering shaft stable in the outer column.

[leafsprung]

you dont need to sleeve it, the rover shaft is hollow so you can buy 36 spline 3/4 shafting, turn it down to fit inside of the rover column and weld it. At that point its all bolt together.

http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/projects/pbr/pscolumn.jpg

[albersj51]

Ike, that's the exact part I said I was going to question you about!
You guys will have to forgive my dumb questions, this is my first conversion of anything...heck, my first resto! The goal is to learn and do as much as possible myself! Keep in mind I have zero fab knowledge/skills, but willing to learn.

Ike, I havent pulled the column from the box yet, but the top of your end piece looks like where the column enters the standard box,.is this correct? Where did you get the spline shaft and the other half of the end cap? Did you use a bearing and if so, where did you get it?

Thanks,

jason

[leafsprung]

-yes thats the stock mounting flange on the original column
-36x3/4 splined shafting is available from borgeson
-the other half is a bearing retainer with an integral mounting flange - I made it.
-I used a sealed bearing I obtained from a local bearing house.


Hope that helps

[albersj51]

Thanks, Ike! Sounds like a visit to the machine shop is in order!.

Based on everything, the FJ60 seems like the way to go. No need to re-ream the pitman arm or cut it shorter, LR TREs work. The new drag link and column bearing are the same for all conversions.

Thanks guys

[greenmeanie]

Very good point! I know the scout pumps cost my right arm to rebuild!



If you mean the Scout box then Autozone sell an overhaul kit for $29. Pump is just a generic GM spam can.

Here's the PS set up I did which takes a little from many of the previous posters. Shaft was modified by Ike as described. Joints and slip joint are Borgeson. The mounted bearing came from McMaster Carr and I made up the bracket from metal stock. It uses the upper outer column with no mods and keeps the steering wheel in the exact position it had with the original system. It also uses the original steering box mounts and is VERY strong.
http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4934&stc=1&d=1302644551

[albersj51]

Thanks, Greenmeanie!

So you got the column bearing from mcmaster? Would you happen to have a PN? That's exactly what Im missing! I can get the intermediate shaft/u-joints from borgeson and make the drag link from DOM tubing, taping it for LR TREs, but the column is what hangs me up. If there is a pre-made bushing that I can bolt to modified column, then im in business.

[greenmeanie]

I don't have the number at hand. The McMaster catalogue is pretty easy to workl with though. You want a mounted bearing with a 3/4" ID and the smallest square flange available. IIRC I had to slot the mounting holes in the flange slightly to match the bolt pattern on the flange at the base of the outer column. I think one of the Toyota vendors (Inchworm maybe?) sels this part already modified.

[albersj51]

you are a scholar and a gentleman. Thanks!

[Mountain132]

Thanks, Greenmeanie!

So you got the column bearing from mcmaster? Would you happen to have a PN? That's exactly what Im missing! I can get the intermediate shaft/u-joints from borgeson and make the drag link from DOM tubing, taping it for LR TREs, but the column is what hangs me up. If there is a pre-made bushing that I can bolt to modified column, then im in business.

Make sure you find a set of 11/16X16 left and right handed taps or weld in inserts for the drag link. Everything I could find was 11/16X18. There may be a few guys on here that have them

[albersj51]

Good call! If I cant find any, I can do it the south carolina way (ie redneck engineering), and cut the current drag link in half and weld it into a longer piece of DOM tubing. I'd prefer to not go this route but if I must I will.

[albersj51]

Looks like mcmaster has the left and right taps (for thd cost of my first borns soul). Anyone know if its NS NF or whatever? Also, what chamfer would you recommend, taper (seems too tapered), plug or bottom? My gut says bottom.

[Mercedesrover]

...and cut the current drag link in half and weld it into a longer piece of DOM tubing...

Please don't do that. Welding tie rods is a scary thing.

[Mercedesrover]

Looks like mcmaster has the left and right taps (for thd cost of my first borns soul). Anyone know if its NS NF or whatever? Also, what chamfer would you recommend, taper (seems too tapered), plug or bottom? My gut says bottom.

They call it a "national special" but that doesn't really matter.

You'll need:

Part# 2595A854 - 11/16x16 RH taper @ $42.25
Part# 2584A911 - 11/16x16 LH taper @ $32.53

A taper tap will help you get it started straight in the hole. It's important that you tape this hole very straight as you'll be going very deep. If it's off in the beginning it will bind up before you finish. Keep in mind you'll be taping this hole the hole length of the tap. Even better, if you have access to a lathe it would assure you make it straight.

[albersj51]

Thanks, Jim!

[Mountain132]

Drag link, DOM tubing with 7/8-18 inserts from spidertrax