Galvanizing, hammer rivets, and asst questions!!!

[knac1234]

Hello all,

When we reach June/July, I might be starting some cosmetic light resto on the S3. I am replacing a few panels, and kicking around doing some galvanizing as I'm going to paint the truck too. So, just got a call back from the galvanizer in Denver, and they will do most all of my parts, including my roof rack, for a reasonable price.

So, questions are:

-Removing the corner tub trim that is hammer riveted on.....how do I remove the rivets without damaging the trim?? Will the tub "come apart" at the corners if that trim is removed? How do I reinstall the trim using hammer rivets (difficult, special tools)?

-Roof.....I was going to start on this in the next couple of weeks as I have a spare one. If I remove the gutter trim, can I reinstall it using regular rivets (as you don't really see them as much)? When I remove the gutter trim, will the roof "come apart"....or will it stay in one piece still (sorry if that sounds ridiculous)!

-Hammer rivets on the side of the tub (center area).....I think there are some supports held in place from behind.....I need to remove these so that the body shop can fill a little right there and sand (they said they cannot power sand between that group of rivets).

-Skin.....I came across a new door skin for my rear standard door. Is it as simple as prying the old skin off (drilling out the rivets also around the door handle), and then laying the new skin on the frame, and bending it back around the frame and reriveting?!

Just weighing whether it will be a nightmare to remove and reinstall this hammer riveted stuff. If there's ever a time to do it, it is now, but perhaps the "newness" isn't worth the headache????

Cheers,
Julian

[sailtech]

The tub won't come apart when you remove that trim. In fact, it won't come apart if you remove all the trim. I used a air chisel, and the aluminum rivets cut like butter. Reinstallation was much easier than I expected. You just need a bucking bar and an air tool. I got mine from http://www.bigflatsrivet.com/tools.html

Haven't started on the roof yet, so I can't help there.

-Hammer rivets on the side of the tub

These can be removed with the air chisel from the inside of the tub. Again, reinstallation wasn't difficult.

-Skin....

I bought new doors, so again I can't help.

[albersj51]

Hey julian,

i just carefully drilled the hammer rivets out. The tub is spot welded so it stays together. As for redoing hammer rivets I hear you need an air chisel and bucking bar. Check out www.roverhaul.com in the rivet section.

The skins are just as you said, gently pry up on the edges a little at a time. Then use a hammer and some wood to bend them back and rivet the handles.

[knac1234]

Thanks for the tips on the sites.

I browsed both, but am still having trouble getting my head around how an air chisel and bucking bar inserts these round head rivets!

Anyone have pics having done it before?? I've pop-riveted a million times with the MGs, but this seems very different. Checked you-tube and done some searches to no avail.

Thanks,
Julian

[SafeAirOne]

The rivet driver tip has a cupped shape that fits over the round manufactured head of the rivet. Once the rivet is in place in the hole, a heavy piece of metal (a "bucking bar") is held flat against the other end of the rivet while the pneumatic rivet gun vibrates the rivet. The rivet shank fattens as it is being driven, causing it to expand in the hole. The part of the shank that was protruding out the back is fattened beyond the diameter of the hole, creating a "shop head" on the back of the surface thereby locking the sheets together.

[SafeAirOne]

Kind of a large .pdf, but if you look on page 4-21 here (http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99c827db9baac81b86256b4500596c4e/$FILE/Chapter%2004.pdf), you can get an idea of what's happening.

EDIT: The link below was a pretty good post on Solid riveting earlier. Note: some of the images that I linked to in this thread are "x'ed out; Click on them and the larger versions will appear, for whatever reason:

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5651

[knac1234]

Mark,

That was very helpful....especially your diagrams.

So, I can use the compressor at work, which is adjustable on PSI....will this rivet gun do the job off ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-RIVET-GUN-W-6-PC-RIVET-SET-KIT-UP-1-4-RIVETS-/290561829617?_trksid=p5197.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DRPSI%252BSIC%26itu%3DUCP%252BUA%2 52BMAGEXP%252BUCI%252BIA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D 10%26pmod%3D290390952932%26po%3DLPV%252BLVI%26ps%3 D63%26clkid%3D8923328696040266812

If I am understanding it correctly, the "rivet set" that comes with it, in the sizes of 3/16 and 1/4, should do the job and is the part that is held against the front side of the rivet (the round head)? This bucking bar that goes on the backside of the rivet.....will a piece of steel work in its place or do I need an official bucking bar?

Cheers,
Julian

[sailtech]

The bucking bar has a round indentation in the end that helps keep it on the rivet.

[SafeAirOne]

That one should work--It has a built-in regulator so you can dial-in whatever pressure you need right there at the gun.

I've never dealt with these folks, but if you don't plan on ever riveting ever again and don't really want to buy a rivet gun, you can rent one here (http://www.hangartoolbox.com/Pages/35.aspx).

Anything that will fit in the space on the back of the panel being riveted and has a smooth flat spot and a bit of mass (a couple of pounds) will work for a bucking bar. As piece of 1" square barstock, 3" long, the head off a mediumm ball-peen hammer, etc...

A note about rivet sets:

To be truly correct, the rivet set used should be designed not only for the size of rivet being driven, but also for the style rivet you are driving (universal head, button head, braizer head, etc...).

Once you figure out the shank diameter and head style of rivet you are planning on driving, it's a simple matter of getting the correct rivet set to do the job. The part #s can be found on this .pdf chart here (http://sabretools.com/pdf/rivet_sets1.pdf)--I think the p/n's are pretty universal, so you can get the correct set anywhere for $10-$15.

The rivet sets listed on the e-bay example aren't very well described. Presumably they are for universal-head rivets, which have a much more shallow dome. These sets may work, but they'll also have a much smaller contact area with the rivet head so they may dent up the head of the rivet a bit more and it may be a bit more challenging to keep the rivet set seated on the rivet head during driving too.

[knac1234]

Thanks.....

I can get just the gun also and different rivet sets than in that package.

The rivets on the tub/trim appear to be round head rivets....I am good using those on the roof gutter as well as that will be close enough appearance wise. So I probably will need a rivet set for 3/16 and 1/4 rivets for round head then.

For the price of that gun and set, I'm OK with a purchase even though I don't think I'd use it again.

Cheers,
Julian

[Terrys]

You could always cheat and go the way Land Rover did for the '73 and onward, and just use the 'pop' rivets.