Starter motor, solenoid???

[knac1234]

Good morning all,

So got to work (Rover fired up first time as almost always), parked it, came out 20 min later to go somewhere else on the property, and it would not start.

I turned the key all the way as normal to start it, and there was a whirring sound.

Turned it off, checked the battery with a charger (I broke down at the maintenance garage on the property!!!), and it was fine. Connections look fine.

I am inclined to think it is the starter motor. I might try the whacking it with a hammer trick, or the rocking it back and forth while in gear trick to see if it will engage/start.

Anyone believe it to be the solenoid instead?

Also, I have a spare motor in my parts stash at home, but it's been in that box for probably 10 years. Any way to tell if it is a SIII starter or if it's one from an earlier one....or were the II/IIA/III motors identical? I could take it to Autozone to have it tested as its condition is unknown.

Cheers,
Julian

[jac04]

If it was the solenoid, the starter motor would not turn over. Sometimes the starter pinion gear gets caught on the starter motor shaft and does not move into position when the starter is engaged. Tapping on it may help, but the solution would be to remove the starter and see why it is hanging up (rust, no lube, old dried-out lube, etc.).

[mongoswede]

My 68 109 is just parked in my garage all the time and the battery isnt properly charged. It has enough to spin the starter but not enough to turn it fast enough to engage the flywheel. I forget the name of this type of starter but basically the violent acceleration of the starter throws the engagement gear forwards. If the voltage is too low this will not happen but the starter will still turn. Try jump starting the rover with another running vehicle...if it starts normally then suspect the battery or charging system.

[knac1234]

Thanks guys.

Jac04--Ironically I was going to be replacing the exhaust manifold this weekend, so the starter should be more accessible and "easily" removable. Anything specific to lube on it if I were to remove it?

Mongoswede--Actually hooked it up to the a rolling large battery charge....set it to the 150A engine start setting....no difference as opposed to the battery alone.

Cheers,
Julian

[knac1234]

Well, took about 30 seconds. Rocked it back and forth in second gear, and it fired up immediately!

Was fine for several more starts, but then needed the rocking treatment at the post office.

So, looks like I'll be fine with my rocking backup plan

In the meantime, I'm going to find that motor in my parts stash and have Autozone test it out.

Cheers,
Julian

[SafeAirOne]

So, looks like I'll be fine with my rocking backup plan

Should that backup plan fail, there's always this backup plan:

[Terrys]

The gear(and spring, or cush) is called the Bendix. If it's not engaging, rocking the truck has nothing to do with the reason it's not engaging. Rocking the truck is only a move made when either the bendix "locks" onto the top of a tooth on the ring gear, or the ring gear has a series or teeth so significantly worn the the bendix isn't meshing with teeth on the ring gear.
Generally the Bendix not 'flying out' is because you have a leaky rear seal, and oil leaking pst this seal is slung outward from the back of the flywheel. Oil get's onto thestarter shaft, and when it's cold, presents enough resistance that the bendix stays in place.

[singingcamel]

Pull the starter and look at the bendix gear, probably worn gear if good, clean the shaft and spring. Clean all the connections , bench test it.

[knac1234]

Thanks guys....

When replacing my exhaust manifold Saturday, I will pull the starter (should be easier to get to) and have both it and the spare I found in my parts stash tested!

Cheers,
Julian

[rickv100]

Another thing to look at would be the electrical connections inside the Bendix gear. I had an issue with a non-LR starter once where the copper washer that makes the connection would short when it stopped in a certain spot. You would have to turn it over a couple of times to try to get it to advance where you can get a good electrical connection.

Rick

[Terrys]

Another thing to look at would be the electrical connections inside the Bendix gear.

You're confusing which starter a series truck uses, with one as used on later vehicles, like RR,Ds and Defs.
The series starter has nothing 'electrical' on tne bendix end. They use an outboard solenoid, as opposed to later ones whose solenoid armature makes the electrical connection, and mechanically throws the gear out. Those starters do not use a cush spring either.
Early series starters had a cylindrical commutator, mounted axially. The later ones, seen on S3 and onwards, used a flat, disc type commutator. The later type have a more positive brush mechanism,, where the early ones used a coiled spring whose end 'pushed' the brush inwards. But your point about the electrical connection is a valid one, as early starters often had corrosion in the brush box which kept them from sliding fully up to the commutator. I don't think that's the OP's issue as he indicates his starter is spinning, just not engaging. (alot like me, most days)

[knac1234]

Terry,

So are the earlier starter motors (SII-IIA) interchangeable with the SIII? It appears so from aftermarket parts descriptions at least. Just in case the one in my storage is an earlier one, would be good to know.

Julian

[Terrys]

Ayup.