Need Help Please - Loosing power and then she dies...

[MbogoRover]

Well due to having a shoulder surgery and the subsequent recovery and being busy running my business I have not made as much progress to date on my Series III, 2.25 109" three door as I would like but slowly I am getting things accomplished (finally got two side panel windows installed) but I am running into an issue that has me stumped and I really need some help.

My Rover runs just fine for awhile (approximately 10 to 15 miles) and then it begins to stutter, loose power, "throb" ( for lack of a better adjective), stalls out and then simply dies. It seems to start again reasonably well if I wait a few minutes, almost as though something is overheating and causing it to stall out or something.

It is a very troublesome and worrisome problem, as tonight my Rover it sitting on the side of the road about 10 miles from my home waiting for me to figure out the issue and correct it, as I could not coax it any further than that.

This has been an issue since I started actually trying to drive it starting in about February of this year (after I was able to get working on it after my shoulder had recovered enough from surgery to actually turn a tool) and this is the second time I have had this very same issue.

After the first time this occurred, I purchased and replaced the plugs, wires, distributor cap and condensor and was hoping that had fixed this issue (though I am still not sure exactly what the problem is) but apparently those new parts did not fix the problem, unfortunately.

Tonight is ran just fine for again, about 10 to 12 miles, and then as I was beginning to go up a long hill toward home (I have had the Rover at a friends shop for the last six weeks or so as that is where I installed the side windows and then I have been out of town for three weeks due to business) the stuttering and lagging began again and within 300 feet it had stalled out.

I would sincerely appreciate any and/or all help, thoughts, ideas or suggestions you all might have as to what is causing this issue and how I might be able to fix it. I have a new ignition coil that I plan to install tomorrow but I am fresh out of ideas and sure need some help.

Thanks in advance,

Mbogo

P.S. As a simple disclaimer, I am pretty new to Rovers and am not what I would call a great mechanic by any stretch of the imagination but I am trying hard to learn and have been enjoying the process.

*NOTE: Updated, as of 05/17/11, and moved the "updates" to this original first post/page:on page two of this thread*

Friday Afternoon, May 14th:So I installed the new ignition coil and, trying to learn and follow recommendations you have all mentioned about fixing one thing / altering one variable at a time, started it up and it ran for just a few minutes and stalled out - this while parked!

So I then searched and searched and searched for a second fuel filter and unless I am totally blind I could not, for the life of me, find any other fuel filter except for the glass sediment bowl/filter (again this is on a 2.25 gas, 4 cyl. engine). I had ordered a new replacement fuel filter, and an inline fuel filter, from RoversNorth but from my inspection and looking at the manuals I can't see where there is a place for the fuel filter element they sent me - I followed the gas line from the rear fuel tank all the way to the sediment bowl/filter and the only thing I could find was the sediment bowl.

Realizing I was A) searching for something that didn't exist or B) Totally as blind as a bat and didn't realize it I removed the sediment bowl, cleaned it thoroughly, as well as the wire/mesh milter and the gasket and reinstalled them.

I primed the fuel pump manually and started it up and it purred along just fine for 10 minutes.

At that point it was getting late at my "roadside garage" and I needed to head home for the night.

Saturday, May 15th:With high expectations, based upon the engines purr from the night before, I had my wife and kids drop me off at the pull-out my Rover has been guarding the last two nights.

She started right up and off I went, heading up the long hill towards home ...... I made it about a mile before the stuttering and stall came.

I coasted back to my "roadside garage" and waited for my wife's return so she could tow me home where, though my knowledge is no keener I at least have more tools and a better place to work!

Testing an idea out in our driveway, I let the Rover idle for 45 minutes, which it did without a hiccup - no stalling or any problems at all !!

So, to a degree I am back where I started but am wondering if the degree of incline is a contributing factor? Could going uphill bring a new diagnosis to anyones mind? Could it be and if so, how or why?

I will, to the best of my ability, keep going through each of the suggestions you have all posted, to try to find the answer but welcome and refinement or others ideas you might have.

UPDATED: Tuesday, May 17th:

As I have found time I have been tinkering with this problem and ordering some parts.

Today I took off the old rear fuel tank (which did have a small leak in it and I had plannned to replace even before this issue developed) and the most interesting discovery was all the junk that was in the end of the draw tube, where the fuel line screwed into the elbow of the draw tube. Frankly, if that debris had/has been there the whole time it's suprising that my Rover ran at all.

I am not convinced that the draw tube was the whole cause of this problem and I won't know until I have fully installed the new fuel tank and put everything back together and given it a test but that is where I am now, working on installing the new fuel tank (still waiting on a few parts, such as the fuel sender, etc...) I have a question regarding the new fuel tank put will post that question in a new thread so as not to confuse myself lol

UPDATED: May 26, 2011:

Here is a link to my post on these forums with an update:

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11750

[bkreutz]

Try removing your fuel cap and go through the scenario again. It sounds like the tank isn't venting. If it builds up sufficient vacuum in the tank, the pump can't overcome it.

[Lord Icon]

I agree, the tank getting vapor locked will starve the engine for fuel, so will a clogged fuel filter and a collapsed fuel flex hose,.... ask me how I know....:eek:

[artpeck]

Piling on it totally sounds like a fuel issue. Something is starving the truck and the fact that it builds suggests vacuum back pressure or vapor lock of some sort. See if the fuel line happens to be routed in very close proximity to something very hot like the exhaust manifold. This can cause the fuel in the line to vaporize also causing it to die out. An easy cheap change is the in line filter and also check the sediment bowl on the fuel pump. One caution on that is that if you do take the glass bowl off the gasket will likely have to be replaced so be prepared.

One other thought learned the hard way. When you are trying to isolate a problem change only one thing at time. Otherwise you never quite know what fixed it.

Let us know if you track this gremlin down.

[Terrys]

It does sound like a fuel problem, but your truck has several vent lines from the tanks, so I'd look for a line blockage before a vacuum issue. Check you pickup tube screen, sediment bowl, inline filter, and carb. Webers have a tiny filter at the inlet, others that don't get sediment in the bowl that can plug the mainjet. Running for a few miles then dying, then restarting after time is one off the clues to sediment that clogs the screen, then falls away when the pump suction ceases.

[MbogoRover]

Thank you all very much for your ideas and suggestions !

I have to attend our daughters kindergarten play this morning and then will devote the rest of the day to trying to correct this problem in the pull out my Rover spent the night in.

I will keep you posted to what I find out / learn.

[bkreutz]

I'm in agreement that the other possibilities are equally probable, I just check the simple stuff first. Doesn't take much time to remove the cap and drive it, if it doesn't correct the problem, then you can dive into the other suggestions having eliminated the vent system. (just don't drive it a lot with an open filler neck:D)

[singingcamel]

My bet is on the pickup tube and or fuel filter ! Any wagers out there ? 1/2 busch light?

[Terrys]

My bet is on the pickup tube and or fuel filter ! Any wagers out there ? 1/2 busch light?
I wouldn't take that bet because A) I agree, and B) even if I didn't I'd hate to win the prize.

[singingcamel]

Ok , How bout a full can then.

[bpj911]

I'd bet ignition. Coil or condenser. I know you said you replaced the condenser. I'd do it again. I sure have spent a lot of time chasing fuel problems that were ignition.

I don't see how it could run 15 miles with a plugged fuel anything.

[bobzinak]

since you have a series 111, might I ask if it still has the evaporative fuel cannister (part of the emmissions system0 that vents you tank through the over flow tank (under the seat base on the drivers side) and into the charcoal cannister (small round cannister above the fuel pump) if this has been remove and the hose blocked you will not have a vent in the tank.. if you take the line coming from the fuel tank to the pump and apply pressure though a small hose to put a bit of air through line to the tank, you can just stick a small hose on it and blow.. you will hear the fuel easily bubbling in the tank, you should not build up any presure in the tank. the series 111 do not vent through the fill cap. some series 11 owners us a very small drill 1/32 " and drill through the center of one of the pop rivits no the fill cap to allow venting of the tank. also if you have a timing light you can hook it up when it stalls out and turn the engine over, if it flashes in a regular pattern it probobly is'nt your ignition. I once had replaced my original nylon fuel filter with a metal one, it would get so hot that it would vapor lock. I have since been using a glass bodied fuel filter that makes it easy to see if I am getting fuel. there of course istesting the fuel pump to see if you are getting fuel by removing the fuel line at the carb and putting the hose in a jar and see if you are getting a decent amount of fuel at the carb, or attatching a fuel pressure gauge to the line to findd out the pressure, a common vacuum gauge will often times read both vacuum pressure and fuel pressure so it can be used to two common items on you land rover..it could be something like a sticking carb float, but I don't think that is the problem...hope thatr this helps, with you limited knowledge of rovers and the "problems" I'm sure you will find a myriad of recommendations on this forum. start with one thing at a time. believe me when I say that owning a old rover is a hobby, and it will teach you about vehicle maint. but I cannot think of any other vehicle that is such a head turner and can make you alot of friends, like the people on this forum..best of luck bobzinak...(owned the same 2a for over forty years)...

[Terrys]

Ok , How bout a full can then.
Reminds me of that contest where first prize was a Chevy. Second prize was two of them.

[Cutter]

Seems to be a lot of this going around the past week or two. Maybe a solar flare took out eveyones condensers...

For what it's worth I replaced my points and cond. with a pertronix so I didnt have to deal with this in future and could eliminate that part of the ignition from the problem solving.

[MbogoRover]

Okay, here is the update:

Friday Afternoon:
So I installed the new ignition coil and, trying to learn and follow recommendations you have all mentioned about fixing one thing / altering one variable at a time, started it up and it ran for just a few minutes and stalled out - this while parked!

So I then searched and searched and searched for a second fuel filter and unless I am totally blind I could not, for the life of me, find any other fuel filter except for the glass sediment bowl/filter (again this is on a 2.25 gas, 4 cyl. engine). I had ordered a new replacement fuel filter, and an inline fuel filter, from RoversNorth but from my inspection and looking at the manuals I can't see where there is a place for the fuel filter element they sent me - I followed the gas line from the rear fuel tank all the way to the sediment bowl/filter and the only thing I could find was the sediment bowl.

Realizing I was A) searching for something that didn't exist or B) Totally as blind as a bat and didn't realize it I removed the sediment bowl, cleaned it thoroughly, as well as the wire/mesh milter and the gasket and reinstalled them.

I primed the fuel pump manually and started it up and it purred along just fine for 10 minutes.

At that point it was getting late at my "roadside garage" and I needed to head home for the night.

Saturday:
With high expectations, based upon the engines purr from the night before, I had my wife and kids drop me off at the pull-out my Rover has been guarding the last two nights.

She started right up and off I went, heading up the long hill towards home ...... I made it about a mile before the stuttering and stall came.

I coasted back to my "roadside garage" and waited for my wife's return so she could tow me home where, though my knowledge is no keener I at least have more tools and a better place to work!

Testing an idea out in our driveway, I let the Rover idle for 45 minutes, which it did without a hiccup - no stalling or any problems at all !!

So, to a degree I am back where I started but am wondering if the degree of incline is a contributing factor? Could going uphill bring a new diagnosis to anyones mind? Could it be and if so, how or why?

I will, to the best of my ability, keep going through each of the suggestions you have all posted, to try to find the answer but welcome and refinement or others ideas you might have.

Thank you in advance and I will keep you posted with developments and/or questions!

Mbogo

[MbogoRover]

I'd bet ignition. Coil or condenser. I know you said you replaced the condenser. I'd do it again. I sure have spent a lot of time chasing fuel problems that were ignition.

I don't see how it could run 15 miles with a plugged fuel anything.

I replaced the condenser only a month ago and have driven less than 20 miles with it - could it really have gone out that quickly?

[albersj51]

possibly. Many on here have had bad luck with condensors, which is why a lot of us went with a pertronix.

most of us run an in-line filter just before the carb. Cut the fuel line, install the filter and attach some more line from the filter to the carb.

Another thought, could your fuel pump be going out? If it happens going up hill, maybe there isn't enough fuel being delivered to keep the engine running?

[bkreutz]

I've seen "bad condenser" syndrome where the engine will idle indefinitely but fail when run at a higher than idle speed. I even had one once where it would run fine then bog down when I pushed the gas but as soon as I let off, it would start running good again. Bout drove me nuts on that one, it had every symptom of a fuel problem. A couple of fuel pumps and carbs later, the condenser was the fix. New parts don't assure proper function, the way I think about them is that if they were all good they wouldn't come with a warranty.

[artpeck]

Sorry to ask a really stupid question but since it just happened to me I thought I would. I was driving recently and started up a hill to have it lose power, surge and stutter then die. Coasted to flat and it ran fine. Finally realized my gas gauge was overstating the fuel in the tank and it was close to empty. Probably not your issue given you could let it idle for so long but had to ask.

I honestly dont know about the condenser angle. Seems weird that a new part would fail so fast but I had cheap brake cylinders that I replaced that all failed in a few weeks so who knows.

One last suggesting I will resurface is vapor lock in the fuel line from it being routed near a source of heat. Didn't know if younchecked that our or not.

[SafeAirOne]

I was thinking that it sounds like an empty fuel tank too (or a broken/bad feed tube).

[Terrys]

I was thinking that it sounds like an empty fuel tank too (or a broket/bad feed tube).
I once remember finding a pinhole, from rust, in a pickup tube, fairly far up the tube. Sucked air when the fuel got below that level.

[bobzinak]

since it seems that your rover kept running for 45 min, I would dought if your problem is the condenser, although they can go bad quickly, I had a mallory distributor on my rover and went through 5 condensers in a month. from my internet searching some recomended sanding the condenser to make sure that it had a good ground...I had one that would get weaker as it got hotter, and slowly the rover would just stall out....but it seems that if it ran 45 min without stopping that the problem may be fuel related..get a vacuum/fuel pressure gauge and see if you pressure is ok, also if the amount of fuel getting to the carb is of sufficent amount. one other thing that it may be is a bad carb float. either one with hole in it so it doesn't "float" allowing the fuel float to sink partway in the carb bowl. or the float level is not high enough to allow enough fuel in the carb. having the rover at an angle would change the fuel level in the carb..hope you figure this out, I'm sure it will turn out to be something simple...bobzinak...

[singingcamel]

Pull the passenger side seat base, remove the cover plate underneath the seat, , the pick up tube is the connection that the fuel line goes to. remove the line , remove the tube and clean it out, The screen surrounding the pick up tube could be full of sh$#@ .
Going up hill and missing sure sounds like a fuel issue , not condensor.. www.singingcamel.com (http://www.singingcamel.com)

[MbogoRover]

Updated on Tuesday, May 17th (update notes are now all in my original, first post)

[MbogoRover]

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Updated on Thursday, May 26th (update notes are now all in my original, first post)