Loud Clanking and rough idle

[KelseyM]

Hello all,

I was driving home last night and all of a sudden this noise started coming from the engine when under load. I recorded a you tube video to share the sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pQ-3GjK-Mo

Now the truck runs very rough at idle, maybe a timing issue?? Not sure so I posted for your guys help

[Terrys]

Hmmmm. Doesn't sound good. Not sure I'd run it it till I had a real good look-see.

[CdnSeries2a]

Sounds nasty, maybe a lifter?

[Bostonian1976]

Rod bearing?

[KelseyM]

Im not going to drive the truck until I find out whats wrong, I pulled the valve cover off and everything seemed to be in order... but I am not sure how to start diagnosing the issue

[JimCT]

almost sounds like the fan hitting something, I would check for bad motor mounts, could be shifting and hitting the shroud under load

[Cutter]

Sound frighteningly similar to my engine when the main bearings disintegrated. Hopefully it isn't.

[LaneRover]

Any chance you did an alternator conversion? My alternator bolt holes went a bit 'oblong' and as a result the alternator fan would rub on some metal once I got to a certain number of revs.

[KelseyM]

No, I still have the generator installed. I just started the truck again and it wouldnt stay running on its own, its seems pretty clear the timing is off.

[KelseyM]

just shot a video with the valve cover off, you guys see anything abnormal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrB6RPFFOfI

[KelseyM]

Whoops! Coil wire came off, here is it running

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAi4jpwCKYg

[LaneRover]

I didn't hear the knocking in the last video.

Does it only happen under load?

[KelseyM]

Yes, from a cold start it doesn't really make the noise but after running for about a minute it makes the noise in the first video I posted.

[LaneRover]

In the video it sounded like 'dieseling' to me. If that only happens under load then check to make sure the weights in your distributor aren't frozen.

If it happens all the time when it is warmed up, I'd look for something that has shifted or loose that somehow rubs on something else once warmed up.

[scatterling]

This sounds very similar to the problem I posted about a few weeks ago. Still don't know what it is. Does your sound only occur when your foot is on the gas? If you coast at any speed does it make the knocking? Mine sounds like it was coming from the bell housing but nothing is touching or rubbing in the clutch/starter motor area. Does it make the sound if you are driving and put your foot on the clutch and then rev the engine? Will it make the sound if you are parked and in neutral and rev the engine?
...sorry for all the questions

[KelseyM]

I believe I hear it faintly when the engine is at idle, but it really only appears when the engine is under load. If I rev the truck I can hear it but it has to be a pretty high rev.

scatterling- it makes the noise in netural, with or without the clutch in. Yes only on the gas, when I come off the throttle in gear it goes away.

Heres the strange part, I just took the valve cover off (for the 3rd time today haha) and the engine started right up. Idled great, but when I put it back on I couldnt get her to start...

I feel like the sound is coming right from above cyl 2 or 3. I am thinking about pulling the head off tomorrow if its not raining to bad. How big of a task is this that I am thinking of taking on? I mean I know its not going to be done in 10 min but I suppose I dont really have a choice if I want to find out the problem.

[Cutter]

Get an automotive stethoscope and try to pinpoint the sound. I never had issues with the engine not running. The knocking wasnt evident until the oil warmed up and there was a load. I just drove mine until it got so loud I knew exactly what it was, not a great idea. Had to have Matt at Overland rebuild a significant amount of the ways they were so chewed up.

[Momo]

Kelsey, it sounds like a con rod knock to me. Too synchronous and too "dense" a noise to be a loose mount or exterior component. Not pinging, it's too isolated for that. If it is a connecting rod bearing versus a main bearing, that isn't any better news because once you have the bottom end opened up you are going to want to rebuild the whole thing. How much oil pressure are you getting?

[KelseyM]

At idle about 25psi and normal driving 50...I am assuming that to replace both of these I will have to pull the motor correct? I am at work and dont have my bibles with me.

[rwollschlager]

when my head gasket blew this winter it sounded very similar, it idled fine but as soon as rpms increased there was the knock. Check the oil for coolant and the coolant for oil, and do a compression test of each cylinder.

-Rob

[KelseyM]

I will check it out when I get home...

Is it possible the timing chain could have slipped?

[I Leak Oil]

I will check it out when I get home...

Is it possible the timing chain could have slipped?

It's a rover...anything is possible!

[KelseyM]

Haha, very true.

I started the rover up just now, after getting the truck slightly warm so it would stay running(rough) I started pulling plugs to see if the idling would make a difference. Cylinder 1 and 2 did not seem to make any difference when I pulled them.

I am going to pull apart the distributor to see if it is the weights, is there any way to tell if they are unbalanced?

[LaneRover]

Haha, very true.

I started the rover up just now, after getting the truck slightly warm so it would stay running(rough) I started pulling plugs to see if the idling would make a difference. Cylinder 1 and 2 did not seem to make any difference when I pulled them.

I am going to pull apart the distributor to see if it is the weights, is there any way to tell if they are unbalanced?

Not sure about the unbalanced part. Mine were 'frozen' in place. I took them out, sprayed them with 'breakfree' made sure I wiped them off and then put them back. No more dieseling under load.

[KelseyM]

Oh ok, I miss read your previous post. Ok I am going to pull them now and let you guys know how I make out...

I checked my fluid, does not look like a head gasket oil and coolant are clean.

[SafeAirOne]

I checked my fluid, does not look like a head gasket oil and coolant are clean.


That doesn't rule out the head gasket--it could be burned out between your #1 and #2 cylinders (see the non-Rover example below). I'd just do a compression test.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3352/3204139923_d755dd7ffb.jpg?v=0

[Bostonian1976]

That doesn't rule out the head gasket--it could be burned out between the #1 and the #2 pistons. I'd just do a compression test.

Mark what do you know about head gaskets? :)

[SafeAirOne]

Mark what do you know about head gaskets? :)


Touche. :p

[KelseyM]

Could be, I just took apart the distributor, and reassembled it. Everything looked to be in order, and afterwards the truck started right up and idled much better than previously. However I could still remove both spark plug wires and it idled the same.

I dont have a compression tester, I will have to pick one up tomorrow

[LaneRover]

Could be, I just took apart the distributor, and reassembled it. Everything looked to be in order, and afterwards the truck started right up and idled much better than previously. However I could still remove both spark plug wires and it idled the same.

I dont have a compression tester, I will have to pick one up tomorrow

But does it still knock under a load?

[KelseyM]

Yes, I can faintly hear it at idle but the more load I put on the motor the more significant it becomes.

[KelseyM]

Just removed the oil pan and found this...hopefully this can narrow it down a bit.

[Nium]

Running the engine anymore is probably ruining the engine even more.

[KelseyM]

Battery is now disconnected

[LaneRover]

Ouch! Well, at least the distributor is better for once the engine is fixed ;-)

[redmondrover]

My son and I heard that same sound just before the engine in my '59 88 blew--on the freeway with a semi bearing down on us. When the engine failed, we were enveloped in a cloud of black and white smoke and, out of the corner of my eye, I saw bits of my engine skittering across the freeway. Luckily, nothing locked up and we did a dead stick landing into the emergency lane.

The attached pictures show the damage. The bolts on the number one connecting rod failed and when they finally gave way, the crank knocked the connecting rod into the block wall and separated the left side motor mount and the dipstick area from the block.

5014

5015

5016

[Momo]

Redmondrover, that will buff right out.:D

Kelsey, either that is babbit debris in your hand or green beans and 40 weight.
Ouch. Lots of it too. Hope you didn't score the crank.

[badvibes]

redmondrover-

Wow I'd say that qualifies as a catastrophic failure!

Jeff

[KelseyM]

redmondrover: Thats crazy, I think J-B Weld may just hold it ;)

Momo: Yea, it doesnt look good and haha, I thought the same thing when I first saw it "Did somebody put green beans in my oil???"

So what to do now? It seems like I am going to have to take apart everything at least to check it out so engine rebuild??

[SafeAirOne]

So what to do now? It seems like I am going to have to take apart everything at least to check it out so engine rebuild??

That pretty much sums it up.

[yorker]

Redmondrover that is the best Land Rover engine failure I have seen yet!:thumb-up: KelseyM's was heading in that direction...

[yorker]

So what to do now?
Time to shop for a 200TDi? :D

[Momo]

+ 1 for Yorker's suggestion!

[I Leak Oil]

Redmondrover that is the best Land Rover engine failure I have seen yet!:thumb-up:

Yes indeed! Remondrover deserves some sort of award for that! What to name it now? Hmm.....How about the "JB Weld Project of the Year Award"?:D

[martindktm]

I had this happened to me with a 1984 Pontiac Fiero. Before that I was used to own Renault 5 with pretty high revving engine...

I think the 2.5 Iron Duke from the Pontiac didn`t like to rev at 4500 Rpm for very long on the freeway. 2 connecting rod came out of the block that time...Huge cloud of smoke and fire caught in it. Was in winter so I threw snow at it...It was 4 speed and was on the red line at 110-120 km/h (60-70mph)....Installed a new block and a 5 speed tranny in it and never had problem after that...


Good luck with your Rover.

[martindktm]

How about the "JB Weld Project of the Year Award"?:D


Mouhahahahahahaha:D:D:D

[redmondrover]

It was a spectacular failure. I had some advance warning and pulled over a couple of times to check it out. I misdiagnosed the jackhammer noise as an exhaust leak...

Aside from the obvious bummer of a blown engine, what made this worse for me was that I bought the 88 only 3 weeks before in large part because the engine was a crate engine sold by our hosts to the PO and only had a few hundred miles on it. I mentioned this in my posting to the "Show Us Your Series" thread in late February. I figured that engine would last the rest of my life....

Fortunately, my mechanic (Gord'n Perrott @ Lamorna Garage) had another engine that he had built ready to drop in. I was back on the road in a couple of weeks. He saved the pistons, motor mount and dipstick peices for me as trophies.:thumb-up: