25D Distributor Drive - Stranded Rover

[printjunky]

My newly back on the road SIII (Rochester conversion, clutch master/slave/flex, speedo cable, reverse light wiring, transfer case refill/cover reseal, valve adjustment , and a few other things I'm forgetting) suddenly died on the road just like I turned the key off. 15 minutes of diagnostics revealed that the distributor drive dog ears had both sheared right off!!!!


First of all does ANYONE have a drive dog for a 25D dizzy? (cannot find one on RN site) And secondly, if you do, is there any way you'd run it to the post office and overnight it? I'lll of course pay for the part and shipping it (would be up to $25 to ship - obviously the closer to the midwest you are the less it would be). My alternative is an approximately $100 tow.

Thirdly, has this happened to anyone else? I imagine it's most likely just metal fatigue on a 36-year-old distributor. But I could be wrong. Could it be indicative of some other thing wrong or going wrong? Is there anything I should check before throwing the dizzy back in (if I find a new drive dog).

[bobzinak]

british victoria has them, $22.00. in case you didn't know there is another drive dog in the disributor drive system. beneath the triangular aluminum piece that the distributor fits in. it has two ears that fit into the cam drive gear, the top of the drive dog is the offset groove the distributor fits in. I had one of those break off and the rover pinged like crazy. I thought it was the distributor, just telling you this so that you can check the lwer drive dogs to make sure they are not damaged. just be careful putting it back in the way it came out. otherwise your timing in the distributor will be off by 180 degrees. I have not ever heard of anyone else that had your problem with the distributor drive dogs. I just wonder what caused it? best of luck getting back on the road...if you get in touch with british victoria they may be able to fed-ex it to you today...bobzinak.

[printjunky]

After visiting my local British car generalist/repair guy and getting a confused look when I asked if they had any 25D's hanging around (these things went into HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of British vehicles over about 16 years (the earliest date I can find is 61, the latest is 77) and among DOZENS of makes and models - Austins, Leylands, Jags, Wolsleys, Triumphs, Morgans, Sunbeams, MGs (lots!), Reliants, Fords, Rovers, Talbots, Morrises, BMCs, even a couple of Lotuses (Lotii?).

And I got what amounted to a blank stare? Incomprehensible. These guys are seriously (somehow) the real deal. They (always) have a dozen MGs in the lot, a couple of (GORGEOUS) XKE convertibles in the garage, a TR2A, at least one TR3 and a ton of other assorted British (and some random Euro trash) iron in their yard. And the owner (who was out to lunch - I spoke to one of his wrench monkeys, who called him on the phone to confer) has been at this for at least 20 years! I keep trying to give them business and most of the time, I get that same blank stare. Bullet connectors - blank stare, some long ago conversation about dash bulbs - blank stare then rifle through a junk drawer (found 2, though he was surprised). He did help me on a coil once, but a coil is a coil is a coil, pretty much.

OK, rant over (but still ... !) So anyway, after some webby searching, I got on the horn to Jeff at Advance Distributors in the Twin Cities area (http://advanceddistributors.com/index.htm) and he has an incredible WEALTH and depth of knowledge and minutiae about Lucas distributors. He was very forthcoming with technical info - willing to take time to email thoughtful responses. Looks like he does awesome work and takes pride in that. I will eventually have him get my original 25D in better than new condition! He was very nice, and was also willing to drive the 7 miles to the post office to overnight the part to me (unfortunately I hedged on hoping for luck at my local guy and it ended up being too late to get it there). So I'll have to have the thing towed. Suck!

[SafeAirOne]

So I'll have to have the thing towed.

Glad you found a good distributor guy. Sounds like a resource worth knowing about for you petrol folks.

I'm guessing that you're not married--It is generally the wife's responsibility to drive the "normal" vehicle while the husband (you) steer the rover as it's being tow-strapped home in the middle of the night when the traffic is at its lightest.

At least that's the way it's been working out at my house over the years...

[Apis Mellifera]

Just as an FYI, you could use the complete distributor from basically any British four cylinder from the early 50s through the 80s. Had you not had this sorted already, I was going to suggest that you ask to borrow/buy a complete distributor from whatever the local shop had to drive the Rover home. The curve wouldn't optimal, but the engine will run. I have a 45D in my MGA that originally had a DM2

[printjunky]

Apis, I knew I could (for example) just throw a 45D in there. And when I got the blank stare from the Jag shop mech, I also said "Or a 45D ..." and got the same.

I did go back to that shop and spoke to the owner. (in desperation, because my gear from Jeff at Advanced Distributors won't be here til probably Tuesday, since I missed the overnight window, and I need to move the thing ASAP) I showed him my dizzy again and explained my dilemma. He still looked at me like I was crazy, and he said "Oh, yeah, I recognize that. We pull 'em and just throw 'em out cuz they're junk, and replace them with Pertronix units." I proceeded to show him that, yes, I know what he's talking about and mine is a pertronix-converted unit, because when he said "Pertronix" he said it like he was speaking to someone who speaks a different language.

Anyway, he asked the same mechanic I'd gotten no help from earlier, if there was that blown up distributor still in that box. It was sitting on the passenger seat of the XKE it came out of in fact. He pulled a box out of the Jag and in it was a 22D with a hole blown through the housing. (!) But the gear's the same so I took it ($50 - a bit high, since the gear should be around $25, and that was the ONLY thing left salvageable on the unit, but whatever). So I brought it home and spent probably 5 hours swapping that damn gear. The big problem was the pin. I just couldn't get the pin to go back in reasonably. I even tried pressing it (albeit with a vice). Luckily there were two (I ruined one). I got the second one to go in, finally.

There's still a problem (After some retiming, I got the engine running, but when I turned the engine with the handcrank to get to TDC, I noticed the dizzy made a weird popping sound and the shaft kind of jumped about every quarter turn. (Enough to pop the rotor off once, even! [though the rotor is on slightly less securely than normal with the Pertronix magnet below it]) And when the Rover finally started up, it seemed like the distributor was making a pretty crazy racket. Sounds like bad valve noise, but I just set the valves a few days ago, and the sound is localized (by ear and feel) to the distributor (maybe I didn't need a valve adjust as badly as I thought. Maybe it was the dizzy all along.

Anyway, that might be some clue about why the ears sheared off in the first place. I'll have to pull it out again and see if I can see any more clues.

[I Leak Oil]

Perhaps the grub screw(in back of the oil filter housing) that locates the inner dist. gear backed off or sheared off. This might cause the symptoms you're getting.

[printjunky]

Leak, headed back down to pull the dizzy and diagnose. Don't recall that screw and it's not in my manual that I can find, but I'll look for it. Thanks.

[printjunky]

So I pulled the dizzy and intermediate gear (secondary dog) between the distributor dog and the oil pump gear. Turned the motor over with the handle (with my foot!) while watching down into the distributor bore. The same "popping" thing is happening, that is, as the crank handle comes down past the hard spot in the rotation, at the same time as it "releases" to the easy part of the stroke, the gear down the bore "pops" around to it's next position. The gear acts as if it's under spring pressure ... that is "creep, creep, creep, POP!" I'm sure part of that is my own perception being colored by the resistance, then release of the crank handle. But the gear definitely "pops." It even makes a springy-sounding "pop" noise.

It's been suggested that the "grub screw" might have backed out, or sheared off. I went down to try and see about the grub screw (Rover's stranded [since Thursday!] a few miles from home) but can't locate what ILO was talking about. Can anybody elaborate on the grub screw location and any other things I should know about it? I'm not seeing it, on the truck, in the bible, and I can't find my Haynes at the moment.

[Moose]

The grub screw that was mentioned is located behind the oil filter unit. You need to remove the oil filter unit from the block, peel off the gasket and you will see a small hole in the block. The grub screw is located in there. If you remove it and it is still intact, the drive gear will drop and you will need to go through the process just discussed in another thread to get everything lined up again. Just a heads up.



It's been suggested that the "grub screw" might have backed out, or sheared off. I went down to try and see about the grub screw (Rover's stranded [since Thursday!] a few miles from home) but can't locate what ILO was talking about. Can anybody elaborate on the grub screw location and any other things I should know about it? I'm not seeing it, on the truck, in the bible, and I can't find my Haynes at the moment.

Brett

[printjunky]

Thanks for the added info Brett.

Before I get down there and get back into it in the morning, if the screw is missing, damaged or destroyed, what options might I have for sourcing something locally? Another thread mentioned a possible thread size, but got no response. (http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5712&highlight=grub+screw&page=2).

Is that correct (5/16-28), and would that plan (either a headless set screw in that size, or cutting a bolt and slotting it) work? Anyone know what the length should be?

[printjunky]

About to head down and pull the oil filter housing off ... anyone know the size of the grub screw?

[I Leak Oil]

Just came in from tearing down my new to me 2.5D. It's metric but looked to be about the same size as a 2.25 petrol so I'd say it's 5-16 unf.