Redesigned Defender

[O'Brien]

Grabbed an image of the redesigned defender from the Financial Times. LandRoverUSA (https://twitter.com/#%21/LandRoverUSA) started tweeting about the defender model in general out of nowhere today, so it seems like this might be a sign that LR wants to bring the defender back to the US market. Colin Green, managing director of Land Rover U.K., told Auto Express that, “If we get it wrong, we are messing up one of the industry’s biggest icons.” I really think they blew it, totally missing tying in the original front end design that has basically defined Series/Defenders since '48. I'm sure we'll get more info when it debuts at Frankfurt next month. Thoughts?

[siii8873]

YUK

[superstator]

Ewww.

[bkreutz]

Has more than a passing resemblance to a Freelander. :eek:

[Winemark]

Has more than a passing resemblance to a Freelander. :eek:
I was thinking the same thing. Really not a cool looking truck at all, way to screw up an icon

[swray]

My 6 year old son said "Gross". "What an ugly Rover"

[Skeeball]

What do you expect? They already ruined the Discovery and the Range Rover.http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

[LR Max]

Looks like they tried to make a Nissan Cube rugged.

[rejeep]

why fix whats not broken?

[O'Brien]

looks like they added a side view over at funrover.com (http://funrover.com/featured/land-rover-dc100-revealed/)

http://funrover.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/def2.jpg

[Triumphdaytona2007]

thats hideous!!

[KevinNY]

Puke

[Broadstone]

"[The DC100] isn't a production-ready concept but the beginning of a four-year journey to design a relevant Defender for the 21st century."

That quote was from the BBC. I assume that still gives the design team 4 years to come to their senses. I would find it hard to believe that they eliminate the iconic defender design. It could be a Range Rover spawns the Range Rover sport type of situation that both have their niche.

[Cutter]

Granted redesigning the defender is a fairly impossible task, this is utter ****e. I'd say more but I'm irritated beyond belief (I'm a designer so I get pretty worked up about missing the mark so far).

[cetesse]

Granted redesigning the defender is a fairly impossible task, this is utter ****e. I'd say more but I'm irritated beyond belief (I'm a designer so I get pretty worked up about missing the mark so far).

Wheels = super distracting
Front end = super distracting

I wonder what the reaction to the rest would be if you put regular wheels and a current Defender front end on it? Or do they need the sloped front end for new safety regulations??

Was super excited to finally see this....but wow my wife likes my Series III better now with its faded military paint from 20 years ago.... ugh!!!

Land Rover -- DC100v2 a bit less offensive (IMHO)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150351806155240&set=a.10150351806150240.395127.634135239&type=1&ref=nf

[Winemark]

the only upside to that design is that it will make older Defenders far more valuable and make me appreciate my Series that much more

[RoverDover]

I dont even want to know what kind of mechanicals are under this yuppie mall cruiser POS. No one is gonna want one of these in a 130 work truck. I am going to keep my 90 forever because the will never make anything worth owning again.

[crankin]

Nissan already did it...

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2008/11/2009-Nissan-Cube-Live.jpg

[amcordo]

C'mon folks - you should have seen this coming. How many ownerships ago was the Defender designed in? It was a completely different company back then. Their market just isn't the same anymore, so why would they create a machine even similar to the Defender? They're not the working people's vehicles - they're luxury so of course the new model reaches for that rather than practicality. Sad, but makes sense.

[amcordo]

Oh. And if I was going to spend whatever assinine amount they're going to charge for it I would just buy a Grand Cherokee or a nice Cadi and drive in more luxury/reliability. AND look good while doing it. Fools.

[mongoswede]

Looks suspiciously like a Kia

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-94Li4jc6Yqc/TVyt5UdMAAI/AAAAAAAAAZ8/VFEgzW71aSY/s1600/kia-soul-white.jpg

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5185&d=1314741703

[rickv100]

The roof looks like it is from the Toyota FJ55 and the window angle reminds me of a Mini.

I think Toyota trucks pretty much have the utility market sewed up anymore.

Might want to see if the new Defender is even a 4x4.

Rick

[jac04]

We can only hope that the designers come to their senses, as someone already mentioned. I would hate to see the day when I am embarrassed to own a Land Rover.

[SafeAirOne]

The roof looks like it is from the Toyota FJ55 and the window angle reminds me of a Mini.


Is it any wonder? Have a look at the website of Tata (http://www.tatacarsworldwide.com/products/index.asp) (this week's owner of Rover). You'll see nothing but uninspired knock-offs of existing vehicles for the worldwide market and microscopic go-karts for their home market.

[Cutter]

C'mon folks - you should have seen this coming. How many ownerships ago was the Defender designed in? It was a completely different company back then. Their market just isn't the same anymore, so why would they create a machine even similar to the Defender? They're not the working people's vehicles - they're luxury so of course the new model reaches for that rather than practicality. Sad, but makes sense.


I agree with you to a point- Land Rover's currently has nothing to do with the market that the series/defender was catering to. In fact the simplicity, reliability and utility demand by that market means the current land rover is the last company that should be making a defender, and Toyota rightfully has taken that market from them. The land rover rep said that this was an exercise to find a "relevant" design for the defender- I tend to think the defender market isn't "relevant" to Land Rover anymore despite being the foundation of the company...

That said, the Defender has some serious brand value, and incredible recognition around the world (if you drove up in this no one would associate it with a defender, thats the problem). The Defender still has a market, same as the the G-Wagon. Spartan, functionally driven and intensely capable are still sought after (even if people don't use those capabilities), and when you have an iconic design with that much mind share, why throw it away. The thing that makes the Defender so great is the design is so unchanged since the S I, simply because it was so austere, timeless and driven by function. Just because this anomaly in the car world doesn't mean to toss that aside and inject the "style juice" that is the antithesis of the defender to conform with the brand. That isn't what the people who want a defender are after, they are after authenticity and performance. And yes, they will pay a lot for it, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Don't want to ramble so I'll stop.

[I Leak Oil]

It's not my cup of tea either and I think I just puked in my mouth a little. Not surprised by it either. As a company they are going to do what they need to in order to survive.

With that said, series trucks weren't wildly popular when they were being built either, they weren't for everyone. Who knows, maybe in 40+ years my kids will be restoring one for their kids......For now, I'll stick with my series.

[TedW]

Looks suspiciously like a Kia

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-94Li4jc6Yqc/TVyt5UdMAAI/AAAAAAAAAZ8/VFEgzW71aSY/s1600/kia-soul-white.jpg

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5185&d=1314741703

With those headlights it's a shoe-in for a role in Cars 3.................

[amcordo]

I agree with you to a point- Land Rover's currently has nothing to do with the market that the series/defender was catering to. In fact the simplicity, reliability and utility demand by that market means the current land rover is the last company that should be making a defender, and Toyota rightfully has taken that market from them. The land rover rep said that this was an exercise to find a "relevant" design for the defender- I tend to think the defender market isn't "relevant" to Land Rover anymore despite being the foundation of the company...

That said, the Defender has some serious brand value, and incredible recognition around the world (if you drove up in this no one would associate it with a defender, thats the problem). The Defender still has a market, same as the the G-Wagon. Spartan, functionally driven and intensely capable are still sought after (even if people don't use those capabilities), and when you have an iconic design with that much mind share, why throw it away. The thing that makes the Defender so great is the design is so unchanged since the S I, simply because it was so austere, timeless and driven by function. Just because this anomaly in the car world doesn't mean to toss that aside and inject the "style juice" that is the antithesis of the defender to conform with the brand. That isn't what the people who want a defender are after, they are after authenticity and performance. And yes, they will pay a lot for it, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Don't want to ramble so I'll stop.


I couldn't agree with you more in wishing that they'd rethink this. But I just don't see it likely that they'll do anything but a uni-body luxury box.

Look at it in terms of the North American market: if they bring the Defender here they're going to be introducing it as an entirely new product line (barely anyone outside of loyalist circles know about the existing Defender). So they've got a few options in that regard.

1. They can introduce the Defender as an offroad vehicle similar to a Jeep. Great. They'll have to hit a pricepoint that is reasonable when compared to a Jeep, or show that it's WAY better. In any case, Toyota tried exactly this with the FJ and the results are them discontinuing it.
2. They can introduce it as another great Land Rover luxury car and ride off the public's feelings towards the existing Land Rover line. In which case it's not going to be a super-functional utility vehicle. Or even if it is, it'll have to priced high enough not to devalue their existing product offerings - putting it out of reach of all but the most wealthy off-roaders.

[Cutter]

I couldn't agree with you more in wishing that they'd rethink this. But I just don't see it likely that they'll do anything but a uni-body luxury box.

I agree, there may be a small market for what we all want but not enough to justify it. And they aren't the company to do it.

[amcordo]

I agree, there may be a small market for what we all want but not enough to justify it. And they aren't the company to do it.


:'(

[Broadstone]

Cutter you said. "I tend to think the defender market isn't "relevant" to Land Rover anymore despite being the foundation of the company... "



What about the ministry of defence, RNLI, other country's militaries, police and aid agencies around the world. All big contracts for Land Rover that they would essentially be abandoning with the end of defender production. Well i say ending because I refuse to call that thing a defender!!

[greenmeanie]

Land Rover stated years ago that they were moving away from the Defender as the base for the marque and it is now the Range Rover. No news there.

Land Rover are not enthusiasts. They are a company in the business of making profit and the hand built Defender is just not nearly as profitable as an overpriced SUV for the style concious.

As regards the utility side of things even the UK MOD has been moving away from the Rover in a lot of roles so those contracts are even seen as having a limited life.

From the Beeb John Edwards, Land Rover's global brand director, added that the company was "determined that the new Defender will be true to its heritage, while meeting the requirements of a changing global market". Ok, so they'll reuse the name then.

Its you get when a Mini mates with an LR3 while a Freelander drools to itself in the back ground

[rickv100]

Another thing to think about is the fuel standards, crash testing and everything else Land Rover will have to build to in order for the new Defender to sell in the US market.

The original reason they pulled the Defender out of the US market was the requirement to add air bags to the design.

I don't think you could build a strictly utility vehicle any more.

Rick

[I Leak Oil]

I don't think you could build a strictly utility vehicle any more.

Probably not it the strictest sense but Jeep is doing a pretty good job of selling wranglers and rubicons. Jeep has also done a fairly good job of sticking to it's original concept considering all the modern safety standards it has to meet. It can be done if the willingness is there.

[rrc.swb]

It looks like the Honda Pilot concept.

http://techmediacars.com/wp-content/uploads/honda-pilot-design-4e264837d556c.jpg

[TedW]

Probably not it the strictest sense but Jeep is doing a pretty good job of selling wranglers and rubicons. Jeep has also done a fairly good job of sticking to it's original concept considering all the modern safety standards it has to meet. It can be done if the willingness is there.

Very good point, IMO.

[lrdukdog]

It really does look like a cartoon. Does it come stock with the HUGE exhaust amd GIANT super base speakers? Who is the target buyer, someone with baggy pants belted around their knees? No chance of me buying one. So long Land-Rover as we all know it.:mad:
Jim Wolf

[rickv100]

I think that the Wrangler is the only convertable SUV on the market. I wish that Toyota had done that with the FJ.

Land Rover wants to stay on the high end so I can not see a market niche for them.

It would be an opportunity for Jeep to pick up the military contracts if they are so inclined.

Bright side is it makes you enjoy the Series trucks even more.

Rick

[LaneRover]

I could care less what they do with the new stuff IF they start making any of the series vehicles again in India for the 3rd world. Just make them very basic . . . is that too much to ask? Wouldn't a 'new' Series 1 for the 3rd world be nice? Especially if some of the parts (even just body parts) could be used as spares for our old models?

As for Land Rover no longer being based on the Defender model but now it is the Range Rover. I believe that LAnd Rover wants to think that. But I think that Range Rover gets a lot of its Cache from the Defender. I think that the Defender supports more Range Rover, Discovery, etc . . . sales than they think.

Its not just that Land Rover makes 4 wheel drives and that the Range Rover is capable. It is the history of the marque that continues to this day through the Defender that really gives Land Rover its heritage.

[RoverForm]

Has more than a passing resemblance to a Freelander. :eek:

Looks like they tried to make a Nissan Cube rugged.

all that plus a little evoque. these old marques should really look into hiring people with car design credentials AND who are also enthusiasts/purists

looks nothing like what a defender is or should be.

when i think of a modern, functional, reliable utility vehicle for use in the US, the first thing i think of is a tacoma. in my international developing world travels, i see both modern and 30 year-old decrepit toyotas filling the void that was left by land rover some decades ago. they are being used from the bottom up by poor working people to the UN and NATO.

if i was going to buy an upgrade from my SIIa, it would be an 80s defender or a new tacoma. but never something as pointless as whatever that thing is.

[superstator]

Maybe it's just me dreaming, but I felt like after the auto industry collapse there was a big trimming of that fat that should leave room for smaller niche makes out there. I think if I were in charge for a day, I'd spin off the Defender as a whole new company, and let it have it's own focus. Go back to when a Land Rover was a Land Rover, and a Range Rover was a Range Rover, and if they get spot welded by the same machine that's just a happy coincidence.

There's a market for the utilitarian / "adventure" vehicle. I think they could compete with the Wranglers and Tacomas of the world, but not at the same time they're competing with a GL500 or Escalade. Trying to shoehorn something in between the two seems destined for failure - the luxury seekers will smell farmer, and the farmers will smell pretension.

[Jim-ME]

If the world economy continues on its present path I don't see how there will be a market for that vehicle. I really hoped that TATA would bring Rover closer back to it's roots. Always a dreamer.
Jim

[RoverDover]

This is such an abomination that if Jeep sold a diesel Wrangler I would sell my Defender and buy a brand new JK.

[Skookumchuck]

I just ate meatloaf again and I finished inner 1/2 hr ago. I hate the look of this SUV. It makes me want to go out and hug my Series and tell im I'll never sell, we can both just fade away in our glory and think about the good old days, $0.25 a gallon gas, being athletic instead of arthritic. And we can appreciate each other and go drive up another mountain looking for fish, fowl and Game.....:D

[mongoswede]

Unfortunately the auto world took after the shoe world. You know....you go buy a pair of hiking shoes and they are the most comfortable shoes you have ever owned. The particular model lasts for years and when you go to replace them you find that they exist but have been redesigned. These new ones are of course cheap, uncomfortable and fall apart after 1 month. You then lament how you should have purchased 12 pairs of the old ones.


Saabs, Volvo's, Land Rovers....all companies who offered a similar model car for more then a 10 year stretch. Perhaps...just perhaps...car companies dont need to redesign the looks of a line of cars every 12 seconds. Update the drivetrain and modify for safety improvements. Heck....a unitized body construction defender could have been done that still looked like a defender. Of course the Series/defender appeal is its complete utilitarian design and field serviceability....granted about .01% of us truly need that. :)

[RoverForm]

and whatever happened to this:

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Land-Rover/Land-Rover-Defender-110-SVX-1.jpg

wasn't THIS supposed to be the new defender? modernized, but with that classic look plus a face lift?

i mean it's not an ideal design but it still looks like a defender... hell, i would actually even consider owning one of these, as opposed to that atrocity posted earlier.

[knac1234]

and whatever happened to this:

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Land-Rover/Land-Rover-Defender-110-SVX-1.jpg

wasn't THIS supposed to be the new defender? modernized, but with that classic look plus a face lift?

i mean it's not an ideal design but it still looks like a defender... hell, i would actually even consider owning one of these, as opposed to that atrocity posted earlier.

I'd be all over this model. UK LR website quotes the Defender as about $34K (£21K)....about the top end of what I'd want to spend on ANY new car these days.....but I'd consider this (but 2 door SWB....I just like em smaller!).

Julian

[mongoswede]

I'd be all over this model. UK LR website quotes the Defender as about $34K (£21K)....about the top end of what I'd want to spend on ANY new car these days.....but I'd consider this (but 2 door SWB....I just like em smaller!).

Julian

the mid 90's defender 110's sell for $60,000 USD to $80,000 USD here in the USA...always makes me laugh considering they are based on farm vehicles.

[Jim-ME]

That is because you can't get them new. I'd bet the price would be much less if they were imported.
Jim

[Broadstone]

the mid 90's defender 110's sell for $60,000 USD to $80,000 USD here in the USA...always makes me laugh considering they are based on farm vehicles.


The models built in the 1990's arent even legal to import yet only up to 1986 is. But seems as if opertunists are taking 300tdi and td5 models and vin swapping them and calling them 1983-1986 model years anyway. Asking 60-80,000 dollars is one thing but actually getting it is another. The people paying the stupid high prices would most likley not even know if they have a spark plug or glow plug, let alone know how to change either!! They will most likley love this abomination, if its expensive it must be good.

Think about it when was the last time anyone in a Land Rover model newer than 2004 (last year of the discovery before it became LR3) ever waved to you. I look at every Land Rover I see while driving the 110 or the series and most do not even notice you. I get more attention and waves from jeep drivers! I do however find it very rewarding to see the look on childrens faces when you pull up next to them, they don't know what it is but the love it. They know its different and they know it's special, if only to us. I think us purists are quickly becoming the minority.:( Or is it that we are unwilling to let go of the past.:rolleyes: However rusty it may be!!

[mongoswede]

The models built in the 1990's arent even legal to import yet only up to 1986 is. But seems as if opertunists are taking 300tdi and td5 models and vin swapping them and calling them 1983-1986 model years anyway. Asking 60-80,000 dollars is one thing but actually getting it is another. The people paying the stupid high prices would most likley not even know if they have a spark plug or glow plug, let alone know how to change either!! They will most likley love this abomination, if its expensive it must be good.

Think about it when was the last time anyone in a Land Rover model newer than 2004 (last year of the discovery before it became LR3) ever waved to you. I look at every Land Rover I see while driving the 110 or the series and most do not even notice you. I get more attention and waves from jeep drivers! I do however find it very rewarding to see the look on childrens faces when you pull up next to them, they don't know what it is but the love it. They know its different and they know it's special, if only to us. I think us purists are quickly becoming the minority.:( Or is it that we are unwilling to let go of the past.:rolleyes: However rusty it may be!!


According to the "legal models to import list" I think it was a 93 defender 110 and a 97 defender 90 are legal for import...might have that backwards. But they did sell defender 90's here for a while and they were always stupid money. I have seen new legaly sold in the USA defender 110's but again I suspect that was from a limited year.

[bkreutz]

97 was the last year for D90 sales in the US, not sure if one could import a non US spec Defender of the same year. The 97 is the most desirable since it's the only year (at least US spec) with roll up windows. I've had my eye out since I worked for a LR dealer (left in 03), but can't justify the cost.

[SafeAirOne]

Now all us young-ish folks know how it felt to the not-as-young-ish folks when the new Ford Mustang came out:
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http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~bmclean/pics/78hrdtp.jpg

;)

[rwollschlager]

ok, so I'm up at this hour of the night and I just finished watching the live press conference/release of the DC100 at the frankfurt auto show, part of me feels like I waisted an hour of my life, another part is almost excited to see how this turns out. They released a second concept tonight, called the DC100 sport, to appeal to the "traditional land rover owner" and it does look slightly more promising than the first. Despite looking like a slightly more boxy range stormer with a convertible top, it does look quite fun. However, it does look like Gerry McGovern is trying to bring back the freelander SE3 rather than continue the defender. When he said they incorporated some styling clues from the original defender models, I couldn't find any similarities between the two other than they both had four wheels. Mr. Mcgovern did continue to reiterate, and almost stress, the fact that these were both concepts and as if they would be open to suggestions and changes before the DC100 is due for production in 2015, lets hope they listen.

anybody can watch the press conference here: http://www.landrover.com/us/en/lr/defender-concept/dc100/
-Rob

[siii8873]

If you type in land rover on facebook they have a survey for the DC100. They ask a few questions and ask for comments.

[xsbowes]

The DC100 looks like a Honda Element or the Kia Soul. Where's the giant Hip-hop hamster owner?!?!

If thats what the future of Land Rover looks like, Iveco needs to start marketing in the U.S.

http://web.iveco.com/italy/collections/Photo/PublishingImages/Gallery%20Massif%20Off%20road/Esterni/accessori.jpg

Iveco Massif, was the Santana PS10, which grew from Series II produced in Spain.

[Cutter]

Wow that dc100 sport takes the kia soul into isuzu vehicross territory! what an abortion. I have to say that the dc100 looked better in the video than the renderings, but still not a defender despite the "right" words pouring out of the shill's mouth. Strip it back, simplify and something could come out of it, but I have 0 faith.

I loved how the sport lead up talked about people who wanted a more performance driven vehicle, or a dependable urban partner....god. Well they know their current market.

[fishguy]

If thats what the future of Land Rover looks like, Iveco needs to start marketing in the U.S.

http://web.iveco.com/italy/collections/Photo/PublishingImages/Gallery%20Massif%20Off%20road/Esterni/accessori.jpg

Iveco Massif, was the Santana PS10, which grew from Series II produced in Spain.

Lifted from Wikipedia: So much for the Massif.

The Iveco Massif is a utility 4x4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-wheel_drive) vehicle mainly aimed at the utility services and military markets and is part of Iveco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iveco)’s 4x4 and off-road range which also includes the Trakker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iveco_Trakker) lorry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorry) and Daily (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iveco_Daily) 4x4 van (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van). Massif was produced by Santana Motors from 2007 to 2011. In 2010, the sales of the Iveco Massif were not as expected and Iveco decided to stop the agreement with Santana. In 2011 the owner of Santana, the Government of Andalusia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusia), decided to close down the company and its car factory and 1,341 people were laid off or retired prematurely.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iveco_Massif#cite_note-Santana_Motors:_end_of_the_story-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iveco_Massif#cite_note-1) From 6,692 cars made in 2007, the company manufactured 1,197 in 2009 and no more than 769 in 2010.

[dunerunner]

I guess you could always burn $120,000 or more on a Mercedes G-Class and make it look like a Defender........Sort of?

http://photo.netcarshow.com/Brabus-Mercedes-Benz_G-Class_V12_S_Biturbo_2009_photo_01.jpg

http://crisslife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/brabus_g_v12_s_biturbo_widestar_mercedes-benz_g55_amg.jpg

[SafeAirOne]

In 2010, the sales of the Iveco Massif were not as expected and Iveco decided to stop the agreement with Santana. From 6,692 cars made in 2007, the company manufactured 1,197 in 2009 and no more than 769 in 2010.


I wonder why manufacturers don't want to build true defenders (or things similar to Defenders) anymore?? After all, they sold 769 units in 2010 :rolleyes: