Frame Discussion

[jumpmaster54]

Does anyone on here have any good or bad news on Waxoyl? I have surface rust only on my 1967 109 Frame and most of the factory coating is ready to come off. I also want to treat the inside. Does the waxoyl spray that goes inside work? Its pricey for the kit, lik $500 at Rover's North but I am ready if it is worth it. Does it stop the surface rust and seal that as well?

Thanks

Sarge

[Firemanshort]

I bought the rattle can of the balck exterior wayoyl from RN. I use it as a final top cover on any work I do on the frame that results in me scratching away the paint. (replaced rear cross member and so forth)

I also use it to touch up paces that become expose through power washing and agressive off roading. If you go with a nice moderate coat - I think the stuff does really well for several years. It is a little pricey per rattle can ($15) - but less bother than a holy frame.

http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-5727-waxoyl-hardwax-underbody-500ml-aerosol.aspx

[stonefox]

Does anyone on here have any good or bad news on Waxoyl? I have surface rust only on my 1967 109 Frame and most of the factory coating is ready to come off. I also want to treat the inside. Does the waxoyl spray that goes inside work? Its pricey for the kit, lik $500 at Rover's North but I am ready if it is worth it. Does it stop the surface rust and seal that as well?

Thanks

SargeFor $500 you could have your frame galyied inside and out .Done end of story and no messy waxoyl to work around for the next decade.

[SalemRover]

Waxoyl will do a great job of trapping water and rust already present so that they may rust undisturbed. I would not treat rusty metal with waxoyl, new metal is a different story but certainly not pitted rusty steel. You should clean the metal as best you can and then use a neutralizing agent to stop the rust. Finally a converting paint can be applied. POR-15 is popular and works well, eastwood is another good product. The only advantage waxoyl has in my opinion is that it resists chipping very well. Exposed outriggers around the wheel wells would be a good place for it as it would prevent the hard paint from chipping from stuff kicked up by the tires.


-Jason

[Broadstone]

I agree with Jason on this one. I am of the opinion that waxoyl is great if applied to a new chassis. Having galvanised everything that could rust on mine is the best piece of mind. However I still used waxoyl, injecting it into the galvy bulkhead in case there was an area that blasting and acid could not get quite clean enough. I did it the traditional DIY Englishman way with a sprayer trigger, length of hose with a small nail in the end to spray 360 degrees.

Keep in mind though if you do apply the stuff and should someday need to weld it is flammable. That would not be ideal for the chassis harness running through the frame or the fuel tank. Or......

[TedW]

Waxoyl will do a great job of trapping water and rust already present so that they may rust undisturbed. I would not treat rusty metal with waxoyl, new metal is a different story but certainly not pitted rusty steel. You should clean the metal as best you can and then use a neutralizing agent to stop the rust. Finally a converting paint can be applied. POR-15 is popular and works well, eastwood is another good product. The only advantage waxoyl has in my opinion is that it resists chipping very well. Exposed outriggers around the wheel wells would be a good place for it as it would prevent the hard paint from chipping from stuff kicked up by the tires.


-Jason

I must respectfully disagree with Jason on one point: My (original and nicely maintained) frame has seen 40 Maine winters. When I bought my truck 20 years ago I waxoyled the frame inside and out - with subsequent touchups as needed.

The frame has held up beautifully, salt, sand and salt air notwithstanding. I found the waxoyl to stop existing rust. Also, it tends to displace moisture when it goes on and protect the metal thereafter.

That's my experience - yours may differ. But IMHO the stuff works great.

I suspect we will get comments from the RN Waxoyl team on this issue as well.

I do agree of course that galvanizing is the best solution - it just may not be practical or possible in all cases.

Ted

[jumpmaster54]

To galvanize a frame, one must strip it all the way down and then take it to a galvanizer correct? I guess I would have to get opionions on my frame before that decision because if I were to tear it down, I will most likely have a need for many parts as this truck is all original and I am sure to have a tough time with removing some brake and fuel lines.

I may then just go with a galvy frame (with the additional cost of course). I will attach some photos of my frame. Thoughts on this original frame?
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/rearframe002.jpg
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/rearframe001.jpg
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/outriggerrtrearfrontofreartire003.jpg
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/rearright004.jpg
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/fronthorn.jpg
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/frontframe006.jpg

[jumpmaster54]

Not sure if pics worked. I did it the same as always. Maybe too many. Ill try in two posts.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/frontframe006.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/fronthorn.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/rearright004.jpg

[jumpmaster54]

Why am I getting a security warning every time I navigate to a page in this forum. My photos are not downloading like i have done previously?

Sarge

[albersj51]

When I hade my frame and firewall galvanized, I had them acid dipped first to remove all paint, rust and grease. The galvanizer usually requires it to be very clean before they dip it. Best thing to do is get the body off and really look at the frame and assess from there. Either get it dipped, blasted or buy some wire wheels and get it clean so you can get a good assessment. Id wire wheel it first before you spend a lot of $$ on blasting., I also recommend getting it chem stripped as that gets the insides clean as well, which means better zinc adhesion.

[bkreutz]

Why am I getting a security warning every time I navigate to a page in this forum. My photos are not downloading like i have done previously?

Sarge

Your photos came out fine in both posts, so whatever is happening is on your end. (what, I have no idea, every time I have computer problems I call my son and he fixes it:D)

[jumpmaster54]

So from the photos, can anyone tell if it is worth the stripping and galvanizing? I am just trying to plan out my rover redo.

Sarge

[albersj51]

Hard to tell from the pics. The rear crossmember (bumper thing), is one of the first things to rust out. Get under and look at it, tap on it and see if there are holes. Also check the front horns, outriggers and tranny/engine crossmembers. The only way to tell is to clean uo the areas of concern and tap on them and see what happens.

[swingkeel]

Sarge,

I agree with Ted. From the pictures you have posted it looks as if the frame is solid although it is hard to imagine that an original frame from 1967 has no internal corrosion, If it were me, I would clean the outside of the frame with a wire brush and paint it with POR15 . I would Waxoil (or home brew) the inside. Why tear the whole truck down if it isn't necessary?

I also have a 1967 109. Lets see some more pictures!

All the Best, Michael

[jumpmaster54]

Here are a few more photos.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/LandRoverPics006.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/LandRoverPics004.jpg
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/LandRoverPics015.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/LandRoverPics045.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/LandRoverPics031.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo179/jumpmaster54/LandRoverPics017.jpg

[SafeAirOne]

All in all, it looks like a pretty straight rover.

If you need center seats (3 individual fold-and-roll type, not the bench type) or the rear seats to make it a 12-seater, PM me--I have rear and center seats sitting in my garage attic that I'd like to sell.

[bpj911]

Did you just get this? I saw it's twin (or this one) in omaha on a transport truck last week.

[o2batsea]

All things considered you should buy a new galvanized frame. The time you'll spend stripping and grinding getting it ready, plus the fact that there may be rotten areas inside that you cannot get to that will just continue to rust even after a galvanizing bath makes it unwise to go that way.
Right now is a great time to buy. The dollar is stronger than it has been in a long time, and a new 109 leaf chassis is only about 1700 pounds. Even with shipping it is very attractive. You can also have it customized with things like receiver hitches and jack points.
Galvanize stuff like your door frames and bonnet frame and your brackets and cappings, and your bulkhead, and your T posts, where it makes economic sense (especially for the NADA 6 bulkhead which you cannot get repair pieces for)
I am in exactly the same pickle with my 109 wagon, but decided to go coil chassis instead since I'm putting in a Tdi, R380 and LT230. Designa Chassis can build it for me for cheap.

[RoverDover]

Its not really worth galvanizing an old frame if you have to wirebrush, sandblast and then acid dip it. use paint and Waxoyl ( or any other rust proofing oil or wax) on an old frame without dismantling the truck. If you are going to strip your truck down to bare chassis you had better be sure the frame is worth galvanizing and rebuilding. It would be a shame to galvanized an old frame that appears solid only to have a fatigue crack appear after a few years.
If you are going this far, buy a new chassis.

[SafeAirOne]

To tell you the truth, I didn't see anything in the photos indicating there was anything obviously bad about the current chassis. Of course, you should inspect as much of the inside of the chassis as possible along with the usual trouble spots, but if that all looks good, I can't imagine any reason to replace it with a brand new galvy chassis unless you have 4 grand burning a hole in your pocket.

If all looked OK, I'd probably just wash off the chassis and hose the outside of it down a couple of times with rust converter/primer shell (http://www.theruststore.com/Rust-Converters-C10.aspx) or something along those lines, then paint it. There are treatments available for the inside of the chassis as well, though I have no personal experience with them.

If your chassis is solid, you could take a few simple, economical measures and have it last another 50 years with routine preventative maintenance...

[superstator]

I'm in the midst of replacing mine, but it had several spots rusted through, and several more spots where a PO had done a bad job repairing rusty sections. It's not cheap, and it's a lot of work. Not to mention it snowballs quickly - if the chassis is bad, the bulkhead and doorframes probably are bad too. Are your springs sagged out? Will you run a new wiring harness while the body is off? Might as well rebuild that engine while it's out. Hmm, never noticed this leak on the tranny before... Next thing you know, you've spent $10-15k fixing some "surface rust". :D

Yours looks pretty good from the pictures. Unless you actually know you have a problem somewhere, or are itching to do a frame-up, I'd just leave it alone. I agree there isn't much point galvanizing an old frame unless you're 100% sure it's good and it doesn't need much cleanup or repair, in which case why are you taking it apart in the first place? And if it really does need replacement, that'll become obvious soon enough.