Road Wheel Wobble

[printjunky]

I was messing around underneath the Rover last night, and at one point I pulled myself up by a tire. And it moved. I tested it by pulling/pushing around the tire (while on the ground), and it wobbles in all directions. Not a ton. Maybe a quarter inch total travel. A little thunking. So I tested the other wheels. Both rears and driver's front do this. I had noticed a little squirreliness on corners this past week.

It may be notable that I had the half shafts out last week to replace the sort one. (though haven't been into the front end yet - hopefully not til spring).

This, I believe is usually a bearing issue. But, I did some searching and came up with little in the way of advice. Looked at the workshop manual, and it seems to indicate either a hub adjusting nut adjustment needed, or a bearing. Don't see what else it could be.

[SafeAirOne]

...either a hub adjusting nut adjustment needed, or a bearing.

Agreed, except "bearing" should be plural.

[LaneRover]

I would try tightening up the nut first.

[jac04]

Keep in mind that you will still get some 'wobble' and slight 'thunking' even if the bearings are adjusted properly. I have always done all my wheel bearings by the book with a dial indicator and you can grab onto a tire and feel the end play. Remember that the end play at the bearings is magnified greatly out at the outside diameter of the tire.

[TedW]

Keep in mind that you will still get some 'wobble' and slight 'thunking' even if the bearings are adjusted properly. I have always done all my wheel bearings by the book with a dial indicator and you can grab onto a tire and feel the end play. Remember that the end play at the bearings is magnified greatly out at the outside diameter of the tire.

Terri Ann has a wheel bearing adjustment technique she learned from a veteran LR mechanic - no dial gauge necessary.

IIRC, it goes like this:

1) Tighten race until it seats snug against the bearing.

2) Back race off 1.5 flats.

3) bend lock tabs and tighten lock nut

4) Enjoy malt beverage (well, I added that one).

[jac04]

^^Understood, and I'm aware of it. However, I've tried that method and it hasn't resulted in the end play as specified in the manual. A dial indicator & mag base can be purchased on line for a reasonable sum, and it is a great tool to have in your tool box.

[Terrys]

Terri Ann has a wheel bearing adjustment technique she learned from a veteran LR mechanic - no dial gauge necessary.

IIRC, it goes like this:

1) Tighten race until it seats snug against the bearing.

2) Back race off 1.5 flats.

3) bend lock tabs and tighten lock nut

4) Enjoy malt beverage (well, I added that one).
Not sure I'd buy into that method, except for very short trips. First off, you should be spinning the tire while tightening the inner nut. This goes double for freshly repacked bearings. Snug is a pretty relative term, relativity being what it is, I'm not going to bother to describe how I "feel" the wheel beginning to drag as I'm tightening the inner nut. I then back off One flat

[SafeAirOne]

I just use a a dial indicator. Takes 2 seconds.

[bpj911]

The way it's done at my house is to:

open beer
set a bunch of additional beers on fender
think and look at wheel while you drink beer while you point heater at yourself
get another beer
open toobox and see if you can find things while you drink a beer

pack bearings with hands
smear grease all over beer can (s)
assemble everything on hub

(important part)
-tighten bearing as tight as you can while spinning wheel with greasy hands. put in cotter pin or locknut or whatever you are working on.
drink a beer and try to talk on your phone to your buddies with grease everywhere and tell them what a bad ass you are for being able to work on your own vehicle.

[TedW]

^^Understood, and I'm aware of it. However, I've tried that method and it hasn't resulted in the end play as specified in the manual. A dial indicator & mag base can be purchased on line for a reasonable sum, and it is a great tool to have in your tool box.

Where can one find the indicator of which you refer?

[slorocco]

You should be able to find one, good enoug for this job, at Harbor Freight on line.

[jac04]

Where can one find the indicator of which you refer?
Just Google "dial indicator" and click on 'shopping'. Lots of on-line tool suppliers as well as Amazon.

[TedW]

Just Google "dial indicator" and click on 'shopping'. Lots of on-line tool suppliers as well as Amazon.

How do you use it in this case? I read the GB but can't figure it out.

[jac04]

How do you use it in this case? I read the GB but can't figure it out.
Mount the indicator base to the hub with the indicator tip against the stub axle. You are measuring relative motion between the hub stub axle. IIRC, the SIII green bible has an illustration of the dial indicator set-up for measuring the wheel bearing end play.

[SafeAirOne]

Mount the indicator base to the hub with the indicator tip against the stub axle. You are measuring relative motion between the hub stub axle. IIRC, the SIII green bible has an illustration of the dial indicator set-up for measuring the wheel bearing end play.


http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6234/6329157918_b02c6f30f0.jpg

[TeriAnn]

Not sure I'd buy into that method, except for very short trips.

I've put over 250,000 miles on my truck using that method over the last 33 years. It was taught to me by my LR mentor, Jim "Scotty" Howet who used to own a shop that was a LR factory authorized warranty repair shop for Series LRs. He was LR factory trained on Series trucks.



Snug is a pretty relative term, relativity being what it is

The term should be tight. You tighten the inner nut until it will not tighten anymore. You turn the hub to make sure everything is seated and the inner nut is tight. Then back off 1-1/2 flats, then install the second nut then fold over the washer tab. The first few times I tried it I checked it with a dial indicator.

Pay Young, a well known veteran LR mechanic in Southern California uses the same method but backs off 2 full flats instead of 1-1/2. Works for him but it feels a tad loose for me.

Bottom line is that the wheel bearings have a short life if they are loaded and a long life if they are unloaded. And they are not overly sensitive as to the unloaded clearance.

Now the way I was taught about wheel wobble is if you shake it side to side & get wobble tighten the wheel bearings. If you get no unusual side to side wobble by get vertical wobble to check the steering bushings.

[TedW]

Is the end-float / play adjustment the same for both front and back wheels?

[jac04]

Is the end-float / play adjustment the same for both front and back wheels?
Yes.

[bpj911]

This is a pretty academic discussion. I can't imagine anyone using a dial indicator to pack wheel bearings and I can't imagine anyone not knowing how to pack bearings working on a land rover at all. Let me be the first to say it. (i am a jack ass) Thanks

[Terrys]

I've put over 250,000 miles on my truck using that method over the last 33 years.Good for you. Mentor's credentials aside, the devil is in the details, some of which you need to freshen up on.





The term should be tight. You tighten the inner nut until it will not tighten anymore. Tight? Finger tight? Breaker bar tight? Something in between perhaps?


Pay Young, a well known veteran LR mechanic in Southern California uses the same method but backs off 2 full flats instead of 1-1/2. Works for him but it feels a tad loose for me. 1 1/2 flats is ok, but 2 is loose? A half a flat is about .003", and the tolerance is only .002", but they're not "overly sensitive"? Which is it? You're arguing against using a dial indicator for setting end float, but making a pretty good argument for it's use.




Now the way I was taught about wheel wobble is if you shake it side to side & get wobble tighten the wheel bearings. If you get no unusual side to side wobble by get vertical wobble to check the steering bushings. Any wobble related to wheel bearings is radial, and is going to be the same side-to-side, and top-to-bottom. By "steering bushings" are you referring to the swivel pin bushings? No top-to-bottom play, and you've ruled out loose wheel bearings and swivel pins. Side-to-side play, with no top-to-bottom play, look at tie rod ends, relay and steering box.

[cedryck]

I enjoyed the conversation, and pics showing the dial indicator method of setting wheel bearing runout. I used the method described by TA and have experienced good results, never a wobble, and this does not eat bearings. Always a good idea to give your wheels a shake, (grab one side at 3 o'clock, and the other at 9 o'clock and pull from side to side) after setting things up.

[SafeAirOne]

I've used both methods, but switched to the dial indicator method the last few times. I figure I've got the tools and it only takes 2 seconds, I might as well do it the way the book says.

The OP was a little alarming though, citing a quarter-inch of movement at the outer wheel circumference! That's HUGE!

[TeriAnn]

Tight? Finger tight? Breaker bar tight? Something in between perhaps?


Whatever. It doesn't matter what I say does it?

[printjunky]

A little update, especially considering SafeAir's concern. My perception seems to have been a bit exaggerated, at least on the rears. I had been working for a few hours getting custom seatbelt backing plates prepped, drilled and installed, and it was quite late, so I might have been a little loopy. I went out the next day, and the rear hubs barely tick. If I had to guess, doing a 12:00/6:00 shake, there has to be a 16ths or even 32nds range of movement. Tiny! And as someone said, that's at the outside of the tire, so quite magnified. The front drivers (LHD) is a little worse, but not much. The front driver's probably warrants some looking at/tightening.

It may (may not?) be notable, that I do not perceive any 3:00/9:00 movement. (At least on the rears. Don't remember on the front). And on the pass. side, I get no movement in any direction. Or at least nothing I found notable.

I'm going to wait it out on the rears for now, having no garage, and having winter breathing down my neck. And plenty of other things to do Rover- and other-wise before the serious snow flies here.

[SafeAirOne]

OK--That's not too bad then. I had some free time the other day and I actually did the math:

A 1/4" movement at the perimeter of a 31 inch tire equates to aboout 0.9 degrees of movement x 2 sides = just shy of 2 degrees total random movement from the front wheels.