24v to 12v conversion

[deezgunz]

I've spent a few months chasing down an ignition/carb problem and concluded its an ignition problem. Its a 24v FFR so I've decided to rewire it with a GM spec 12v/12 circuit painless harness, delco starter, and a single wire alternator, dizzy with a pertronix as well as the other bits and pieces. The first order of business will be removing all the FFR bits so if anyone has any interest in this stuff let me know. All comments appreciated! Thanks!

[deezgunz]

first things first. i removed the last bits of the radio system.

cab with the FFR components
http://i44.tinypic.com/54k77.jpg
cab with FFR components removed. i'm relocating the battery and installing a lockbox
http://i39.tinypic.com/2gv9f86.jpg
FFR components. the cable is the power feed from the generator to the voltage regulator for the radio.
http://i42.tinypic.com/23vay53.jpg
power output on the generator
http://i43.tinypic.com/rivvr6.jpg

[deezgunz]

Today I removed the generator, dizzy, wires, coil, converter, and air filter/oil bath. This opened up the engine compartment tremendously. Once I get the civvy battery bracket/oil bath/air filter I will probably have to do some head scratching and fabrication to fit it to the frame.
http://i42.tinypic.com/10pttl4.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2lncrxk.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/710e95.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/14uj3h3.jpg

[disco2hse]

Great to see you making some progress. Aren't those high amp cables something else! :D

That is one thing that makes the 24V difficult to handle, up to 120A fries pretty much all third party electrical components these days, and the split charge diodes can cause some pretty amazing spikes :eek:

[LR Max]

Just had a thought: Save that little box that is behind the passenger seat! Turn it into a water proof, permenantly mounted first aid kit.

That would be slick!

[deezgunz]

I removed the instrument panel. I need to replace the 24v gauges with 12v's so I cracked open the panel. I was under the impression that the h2o, oil, fuel were in one sealed unit. I was mistaken. I learned the anatomy of the cluster is 3 individual gauges. My experience with the civvy series 3 is limited and I thought the gauges were the 3 round independent gauges that are mounted on the center dash. A more knowledgable fellow pointed out these were an after market add-on. I did a quick search for the rubber gaskets as mine need replacing but did not come up with anything. If someone has access to these please let me know. I take photos of all the connections before I remove them. I also label the cluster of wires with the appropriate system. Below are pics of the gauges and the dash. So far I'm not intimidated by the process.
http://i40.tinypic.com/nnlfte.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2ppn6zr.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/ess407.jpg

[disco2hse]

You'd be unlikely to find a seal for it. They are normally sold as a complete unit. Instead, what about a neoprene o-ring of the appropriate diameter? Or just fill it with silicon?

Personally, I'd have just replaced it with a 12V gauge set from a wreck.

That last photos looks strangely familiar to me :p

[Jim-ME]

I have a set of rubber O rings which I bought to go between the instrument and the dash. They might work for your application. PM me if you are interested.
Jim

[jac04]

You'd be unlikely to find a seal for it.
Parts are readily available from Nisonger Instruments:
http://www.nisonger.com/smiths-parts.htm

[disco2hse]

Parts are readily available from Nisonger Instruments:
http://www.nisonger.com/smiths-parts.htm

Well, bugger me. That's service fer ya :D

[deezgunz]

I removed the left front wing to include the inner portion to gain access to the starter motor. When I first bought the rover I removed the wings and reinstalled them with new hardware greased with Lucas red and tacky. As most of you probably know removing old hardware is difficult and in my case involved cutting the bolts with a dremel. The new greased hardware makes removing the wing a 10 min. job. I also had to remove the bolts from the exhaust to make room for the massive 24v starter to be removed.
http://i41.tinypic.com/rj2goy.jpg
I bought a single wire install starter from British starters.
http://i44.tinypic.com/199gfo.jpg

[SeriesShorty]

Looking good! You are moving way faster than I did with my truck. :o hehe

[JimCT]

the bendix on both of those starters look pretty different, unless it i just the angle of the photo

[disco2hse]

Hmm, the new one looks like the 24V one on my V8.

The difference appears to be the spring on the old one. Not sure if that will cause problems.

[scatterling]

The starter is the same one I used on my 109. It'll work fine.

[yorker]

the bendix on both of those starters look pretty different, unless it i just the angle of the photo The aftermarket gear reduction starters engage differently, as long as they mesh better than the Mean Green (http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?p=48003&highlight=green+starter#post48003) ones do they'll be ok.

[deezgunz]

The main wiring harness was removed today. To remove the heater/wiper motor wiring I removed the end cap of the dash. It appears water pooled inside it and rusted it out. Are there replacements for this?
http://i44.tinypic.com/24vnxj9.jpg
Here is the main harness. Not that bad of a tangle. I'm saving this for reference and possibly use some connectors. I also labeled areas although once its spread out its obvious what wires go to which component.
http://i42.tinypic.com/j98010.jpg
Here's a question for all of you experts. I plan to retain the directional/horn/dipper stalk and solder new blade connectors on it. Can I use the existing 24v wiring as a pig tail or does it pose a fire risk?
http://i44.tinypic.com/10mr1xc.jpg
Nice and clean dash/bulkhead. A total rewiring is going to make a less complicated set-up.
http://i44.tinypic.com/hv5qnm.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/j6n0h3.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/j6snrk.jpg

[disco2hse]

No problem with the 24V wiring on the indicator switch. No fire risk.

[deezgunz]

I decided to do away with the military headlamp switch. All the convoy features are cool but make for alot of trouble shooting if there is a problem. One of the primary goals of this rewiring job is to keep it simple. I have plans to keep the military dash and refitting a civvy headlamp switch. I planned to rewire the existing military fixtures but after removing them from the wing they are a bit rotten. Our host sells a kit so I think I'm going to replace them.
http://i39.tinypic.com/5193s6.jpg
I also plan to replace the headlights with some Hellas. I am considering replacing the buckets with the WIPAC part our host sells.
http://i43.tinypic.com/10rsbdd.jpg
Its time to order a harness. I looked at the Painless, keep it clean wiring, and e-z wiring. It's come down to either the keep it clean or the e-z wiring because of price. I believe the deciding factor will be the size of the fuse box as I plan to install it in the dash interior.

[scatterling]

the Wipac's with the Hella's are the way to go.
If you want to reuse the 6-way but only utilise the headlight function, there is a way to cut and reroute the switch. Easy enough and it all still looks stock on the dash. ( that's what I did to mine) Let me know & I'll dig up my wiring diagram.

[jac04]

I planned to rewire the existing military fixtures but after removing them from the wing they are a bit rotten. Our host sells a kit so I think I'm going to replace them.

I also plan to replace the headlights with some Hellas. I am considering replacing the buckets with the WIPAC part our host sells.
I sent you a pm.

[deezgunz]

I removed the driver's side wing to access the the frame in order to install the battery/air cleaner bracket (as y'all prob know the twin batt's on the 24v ex-mod are in between the driver/passenger seats). One of the "musts" on this conversion is to move the batts to make way for a secure cubby. The brackets are different so I may have to fabricate a few mounts. This will not be difficult because a friend of mine fabricates and welds!
http://i43.tinypic.com/20hyjq.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2q35253.jpg

[disco2hse]

Where are your petrol tanks? Do you have two, one under each from seat, or one in the front and one in the rear?

Normally the battery on later models (series IIA and III) is fitted under the passenger or driver's seat.

[deezgunz]

I tackled the rear electrics today. I started by removing the connectors from all the rear lights and found the utterly amazing amount of wiring for the convoy lights, fogs, 12 pin nato connector, and an additional hella input. By eliminating these components I'm pretty sure I can construct a rear harness of about 6 wires to feed the plate light, indicators, fogs, brake/running lights. There was also a hodge podge of different trailer hitches which I removed but I may replace the sankey hitch. The toughest part of this job was removing the rusted fittings that held the harness in place. I also discovered the main feed of the wiring harness is fed through the frame. I didn't know this bit of info...
http://i41.tinypic.com/2lc3a.jpghttp://i40.tinypic.com/hulrus.jpg

[akrvr]

I did 24-12V conversion and bought a 170A quad mount alternator for a Peterbilt. It fits the existing military alt mount with a few spacers. Get a double pulley. You can find alt on ebay

[deezgunz]

So now that flu season is over here we go with the alt, bat, dizzy, starter mtr post. This part of the conversion has taken the most time in planning and resourcing the parts. Funny thing is that I thought that this was going to be the easy part! One of the main parts of the conversion was to do away with the dual batt's and move one bat to the engine compartment. A buddy of mine took a civvy series bat mount/air holder and modded it out. The end product is awesome.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2guh5ah.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/11lsvsy.jpg
The flipping alternator was a bugger! Placement is crucial to clear the fan and other belts and pulleys. I bought a pangolin bolt on alternator mount thinking that it would go right together. This product does not fit on an ex-mod. One of the mounting points uses a bolt on the engine face that secures the thermostat area. At first I loosened up the bolt and water started to seep out and I quickly tightened it. The mounting points on the mount did not match up with my engine either. I suspect this is engineered for NAS rover. My buddy looked at the pangolin mount and cut it up and fabricated and awesome mount. Below are a few pics.

The mounting points on the pangolin product did not match up
http://i42.tinypic.com/2e1fus2.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/33mbucp.jpg

The redesigned mount is sturdier and doesn't use any mounting points that comprise proper functioning of the engine.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2j2u7mv.jpg

I also had to change the pulley to a dual belt and use the furthermost pulley point so the new belt will clear the other belts.
http://i40.tinypic.com/fn9qn7.jpg

The starter motor bolted on in 5 minutes. The new electronic dizzy required widening the original locking ring because the one that came with the dizzy did not fit. I cleaned it up and highlighted the timing marks with whiteout.
http://i42.tinypic.com/apbmdz.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2zir6eo.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2zz12kh.jpg

[Moose]

Pm sent re parts

Brett

[masonater]

Interesting, i had the same issue with my pangolin bracket. I thought i was going crazy as many people have installed them and i havent heard anything about fit issues. I ended up making some spacers to fit it together. Like you i thought it would just bolt right on.

[deezgunz]

I'm bumping this thread with more info on my 24v to 12v conversion. I took and break because of school and now I'm on the wiring job again. Oh yeah...I also bought a 73 SIII NAS 88!
http://i50.tinypic.com/5p4utz.jpg
Back to the 109...I spent some time figuring on placement of the new fuse box. I started off thinking about attaching it to the dash area but the box is a bit large for the space. The dash is also angled and is not conducive to mounting a fuse box. I thought about mounting it on the bulkhead but I want it to be protected. I also didn't want the engine compartment cluttered up as I bought a 12 circuit panel and and will have extra wires that need to be stowed. I chose to install it in the battery tray where the two batts used to sit inside the cab. It turns out to be the best choice as it is plenty of room for the panel and also room to stow the extra wires. I'm planning to lay the harness in place and make the connections. After I make the connections and ensure proper placemnt of the wires it is only then that I will secure the panel, clean up and protect the wiring.

12 circuit panel-more than enough room for expansion electric fuel pump etc...space is needed to stow extra wiring
http://i46.tinypic.com/ayao2c.jpg

angled dash-not good for fuse panel placement
http://i47.tinypic.com/210dmv7.jpg

bulkhead-not as protected as having the panel in the interior and will clutter up the engine bay
http://i48.tinypic.com/2i08avs.jpg

Panel will sit in the former battery tray situated between the driver and passenger seats
http://i48.tinypic.com/2ps2kuv.jpg