Hubs

[Ncrover725]

I have a 71 IIa 109 and am looking to replace my dual-matic hubs with new super winch freewheeling hubs here within the next week or so. Has anyone done this swap? I'm a curious to if it is a simple bolt off / bolt on swap or if there is more to it.

[Mercedesrover]

They're crappy and they leak.
Find yourself an old pair of Warns or Faireys.

[east high]

Yeah, superwinch hubs suck. IMO hubs shouldn't have plastic parts in them.

[SafeAirOne]

IMO hubs shouldn't have plastic parts in them.

I was wondering about the plastic parts. The description of the Superwinch hubs:

"These Superwinch premium hubs (blah blah blah)... ...Made from corrosion-resistant aluminum with cast-iron drive components, Superwinch premium hubs will give you a lifetime of dependable service. All metal construction sealed to keep out contaminants... "

[Ncrover725]

Some of the reviews I read said they were pretty decent

[o2batsea]

Just wondering why you want free wheeling hubs?

[slorocco]

Just wondering why you want free wheeling hubs?

And so it begins. Where's my popcorn.

[Jim-ME]

My old Warn hubs started to leak and with the help of I Leak Oil I replaced the O rings. That lasted a while and then even with rebuilding them again they leaked. Finding bolts than were the correct sized head and thread for these hubs was near impossible. For you see bolts wear out too. I switched to AVM hubs and have been really happy with them. Some folks like hubs such as myself, some folks like SafeAirOne don't feel the need. Stop crapping on those of us that like them.
Jim

[Ncrover725]

My desire to have free wheeling hubs is to be able to free up my vehicle to move if I have a locked up front end. I'm not overly looking at increasing my gas mileage.

[o2batsea]

Stop crapping on those of us that like them.
Jim

Never!

[jac04]

Yeah, superwinch hubs suck. IMO hubs shouldn't have plastic parts in them.
The dials are hardened nylon & only the Superwinch military-specification hubs come with the nylon dials.
The idea is that if the end of the hub takes a hit, a metal dial may become jammed against the body and locked together. The plastic dial has some 'give' and will allow you to still operate the hub.

[TedW]

I used to have AVM hubs - and they leaked. I now have Warn hubs - and they leak. I have surrendered to hub leakage.

I just deal with it as best I can, because I prefer to run my truck on trips with the hubs unlocked.

[greenmeanie]

The dials are hardened nylon & only the Superwinch military-specification hubs come with the nylon dials.


Mil-spec? Who's mil? They are not MOD as such technology was considered beyond the capacity of the average squaddie and utterly redundant to the military mission on a Rover.

[SafeAirOne]

Some folks like hubs such as myself, some folks like SafeAirOne don't feel the need.

Actually, when I first got my current Rover, I ordered some locking hubs from BP, but when I went to install them, SURPRISE!, I have 24-spline outer axles. That was 7 or 8 years ago.

I really think the locking hubs / no locking hubs debate is moot, because people who maintain their rovers properly will have no problems with hubs, but people who don't maintain their rovers properly will have problems. Simple as that. Everyone knows how to prevent locking hub-related issues--It's just a matter of doing it.

[JimCT]

The ambulance has a set of Warn M11's i took off our early '70's part car. Bronze center and have never leaked

[TedW]

Actually, when I first got my current Rover, I ordered some locking hubs from BP, but when I went to install them, SURPRISE!, I have 24-spline outer axles. That was 7 or 8 years ago.

I really think the locking hubs / no locking hubs debate is moot, because people who maintain their rovers properly will have no problems with hubs, but people who don't maintain their rovers properly will have problems. Simple as that. Everyone knows how to prevent locking hub-related issues--It's just a matter of doing it.

I think that I maintain my Rover properly. And my hubs still leak.

[SafeAirOne]

I think that I maintain my Rover properly. And my hubs still leak.

One look at my driveway will confirm that I don't find all the leakage to be problematic. :D

I was thinking more of the seized swivel pin/rusty axle u-joint/rotten swivel ball-type of locking hub horror stories/folklore and the widely publicized, well known, easy preventative measures locking hub users can take avoid such maladies.

[TedW]

One look at my driveway will confirm that I don't find all the leakage to be problematic. :D

I was thinking more of the seized swivel pin/rusty axle u-joint/rotten swivel ball-type of locking hub horror stories/folklore and the widely publicized, well known, easy preventative measures locking hub users can take avoid such maladies.

Right. My front end is brandy new and stuff still leaks. I think it's an english thing. Even with lots of Hylomar. Which, come to think of it, is english..........

[jac04]

Mil-spec? Who's mil? They are not MOD as such technology was considered beyond the capacity of the average squaddie and utterly redundant to the military mission on a Rover.
Just stating what is in the Superwinch catalog. They state that all their premium hubs are all-metal construction. Then there is an asterisk next to several hubs including the Land Rover hubs. The asterisk is shown as hubs made to military specification with nylon dial.

[greenmeanie]

It might be a US spec but no British Army Land Rover used them and I have not seen a foreign military Rover use them either. I will give you that Mil-spec is only a specification and does not mean they have ever been purchased or used. I view that as being in the same marketing vein as 'aircraft grade aluminium'.

The MOD have the same view as many that they add complexity and failure points to a vehicle who's mission does not require them.

[LR Max]

Wow. Amazing thread.

Superwinch owner here. Had em on for about 5 years. No leaks. Many scratches and gouges from rocks. No problems.

Ok, they aren't as easy to engage as my old Fairey units but they work.

Are you guys properly RTV'ing the crap out of these? I mean, it is a rover. Don't be shy with the sealant!

[TedW]

Are you guys properly RTV'ing the crap out of these? I mean, it is a rover. Don't be shy with the sealant!

I thought I was really going nuts with the Hylomar - but maybe not so much, since the b@$t@rds still leak.

[LR Max]

Try regular ole RTV instead of hylomar. I never had much luck with mylomar but the RTV, well that works just fine :D

[TedW]

Try regular ole RTV instead of hylomar. I never had much luck with mylomar but the RTV, well that works just fine :D

I'll do just that! Thanks for the tip.

[Ncrover725]

Today I fitted a new set of Superwinch hubs in order to replace my aged Dualmatics. I listened to all you guys posted on here and chose to install them. I was going to go with a standard drive flange but they actually cost more than the free wheeling hubs. I also figured if I locked up my front end I can still roll on home.

In order to complete the install I purchased 12 new bolts and washers from the sponsor due to the fact the bolts for the dualmatic hubs are too long when used with a Superwinch hub. I did not have to do any grinding, filing, or modifying to get them fitted.

After install I tested them out on the highway and a bit off road. They functioned well and I have no leaks at the moment. It also did a bunch for the looks of the truck. If I have any drama with these hubs in the future I will look at some re-conditioned Warn M-11s from Ike.

Thank for all the info you guys provided.

[o2batsea]

Hubs prolly won't give you any drama. You'll get that from the axle bits that are no longer getting lubed properly. YMMV.

[Ncrover725]

o2batsea,
I keep hearing from a few individuals that using free wheeling hubs will dry my truck into dust and it will all blow away. What is the difference in lubrication between a drive flange and a locked free wheeling hub? I do know that free wheeling hubs can assist in allowing a vehicle with a locked up front end a chance at limping home.

As far as previous comments about UK snatch / MOD vehicles not having free wheeling hubs. I can speak rather well on this since I have had UK vehicles in my patrol for the past 10 years in Afghanistan. I agree that they do not have free wheeling hubs. I also know that I have had to deal with front and rear end drama on their vehicles to the point our UK counterparts utilized our GMVs or Toyota Hilux vehicles. The discussion regarding free wheeling hubs and the benifits actually came up with their mechanics as a possible solution.

This is my first Series vehicle and I do default to the years of experience you guys have obtained. However I do feel though there is a lot of bias regarding this topic that is more personality driven and less mechanicaly driven.

[yorker]

o2batsea,
I keep hearing from a few individuals that using free wheeling hubs will dry my truck into dust and it will all blow away. What is the difference in lubrication between a drive flange and a locked free wheeling hub? I do know that free wheeling hubs can assist in allowing a vehicle with a locked up front end a chance at limping home.



The theory is that the spinning front U joints in ther swivel balls properly lube the upper swivel pins and the Railko bushings. If you left the front end unlocked and ran it forever without ever engaging it you wouldn't be lubing that upper swivel pin.

Most modern vehicles have bearings there instead of Railkos. The modern Land Rovers are all full time fouw wheel drive so their front CV joints are always spinning and hubs would be useless on them unless you first converted the transfer case to part time 4wd.

[o2batsea]

I keep hearing from a few individuals that using free wheeling hubs will dry my truck into dust and it will all blow away.

Yah, if you drive around with the hubs unlocked. If the reason to install them is to get home due to some issue that would occur with the standard drive flange on the hub, I don't buy it. That's just not a common failure item, especially on the front. The axle will go before the drive flange. So if you have the FWHs locked all the time, why bother even having them? Keep a spare hub kit in your OBS bin and if it blows, then you have to change a whopping six bolts, a circlip and a gasket. No biggie. I do believe tho, that any situation that would blow out a solid steel drive flange will more than kill a FWH.
But, your truck, your money, you do whatever you want.

[JimCT]

On long highway trips the hubs keep allot of metal from spinning needlessly. I lock the hubs in when we get to our destination. Quieter, a hair better gas mileage and less wear on the front diff. I also believe he is talking about breaking a diff or axle in the front, not a hub. And then unlocking the hubs would let you drive home.

[yorker]

Yah, if you drive around with the hubs unlocked. If the reason to install them is to get home due to some issue that would occur with the standard drive flange on the hub, I don't buy it. That's just not a common failure item, especially on the front. The axle will go before the drive flange. So if you have the FWHs locked all the time, why bother even having them? Keep a spare hub kit in your OBS bin and if it blows, then you have to change a whopping six bolts, a circlip and a gasket. No biggie. I do believe tho, that any situation that would blow out a solid steel drive flange will more than kill a FWH.
But, your truck, your money, you do whatever you want.

Why would you keep the FWH locked all the time? That is pointless. Once a month is plenty to lube the upper swivel pin. Free wheel hubs can also help you ger back to civilization if you blow a front diff or axle. BTDT. They definitely are useful. All the hand wringing about the top swivel pin wearing out prematurely due to free wheel hubs is nonsense.

[Ncrover725]

Yorker- I keep them locked for day to day driving since often times I take fire breaks to and from work. On a trip over 50 miles or so I take unlock them.

Jimct - you are correct. I was talking about the diff and not the flange breaking