Basic 2.25L engine upgrade vs Temp

[dabawei]

Hello,

I reach in restoration project to restore the 2.25L engine in a hired garaged; the engine specification is 2.25l with 8:1 compression where engine number start with 901xxxxxx serial code.

I am thinking in upgrading the engine by replacing existing camshaft with 2.5l engine camshaft (does it straight forward?) and mill the head to increase compression to 9:1.

BUT MAIN QUESTION IS DOES THIS INCREASE THE TEMPERATURE OF ENGINE? And require modification in radiator and other staff?

Note: I am located in hot and very hot country "Dubai"

Thanks

[greenmeanie]

Engine temperature will not change significantly. When milling the head look up some of the threads here to see what you need to know about fit as you can create an interference with the thermostat housing.

2.5L camshaft is a straight swap. You will need a new bolt to hold the gear on the end as the threads are different to the original.

In your location have the radiator flushed out and use the recommended mix of antifreeze and water. New hoses and thermostat and keep the original metal engine driven fan. This should provide optimum cooling performance.

I ran somethnig similar in Arizona which is also damn hot and you should do fine.

[albersj51]

I finished up my 2.25l petrol rebuild about 6 weeks ago. I went with the 2.5l cam for a slight upgrade in performance. Like Greenmeanie said, make sure you get the new bolt. It should be included, but make sure. Also, according to the workshop manual, the camshaft bearings need to be reamed with a line hone to fit the camshaft properly. It was a real pain finding someone local to me who would/could do this. In the end, reaming wasn't necessary in my case, but it may be in yours. Make sure your garage has the equipment and expertise to do this.

Best of luck!

Jason

[dabawei]

How much power will be gain from such modification (noticeable)?

Any one have image can show the difference of both camshaft?

And image shows this new required bolt to hold the gear on the end as the threads are different to the original?

Thanks

[albersj51]

I've never seen any specs, like HP or torque numbers, to prove the improvement from the 2.5l cam. Mostly what i have seen is, "it helps". How much? Don't know, but every little bit counts!

As for an image, I don't have one, but the 2.5l camshaft requires a metric bolt whereas the original 2.25l camshaft was imperial.

[dabawei]

Another question, any one tried to replace engine FAN with electrical fan on the radiator?

It is most easy popular way to enchnce output power of engine in our area!

Any one tried it on land rover??

[TedW]

Another question, any one tried to replace engine FAN with electrical fan on the radiator?

It is most easy popular way to enchnce output power of engine in our area!

Any one tried it on land rover??

I've had an electric fan for years, and prefer it.

By replacing the belt-driven fan you will get a faster warm-up and quieter running. The fan is a propeller, after all.

I suppose that there is some power increase (it seems that there has to be) as well, but it's been so many years since I had the old fan that I don't recall how much difference it makes.

Please note that I live in Maine, where faster warm-up is important. For you in Dubai: probably not so much. I will say that it can get very hot and humid here in the summer (95F+), and I have had no cooling issues ever - even when stuck in traffic.

An important suggestion: If you put on an electric fan you will be wise to avoid the plastic stays that attach it to the front of the radiator: the stays go through the fins and one of them will eventually wear through the core, causing a leak. I made two brackets and hang the fan in front of the radiator: it doesn't touch it.

My fan has an adjustable auto-on thermostat (from Derale) as well as an override switch so I can turn it on whenever I want.

Just my $0.02.

[LR Max]

If cooling is an issue, Proline makes a four core radiator. I had one installed and in July in Southern Georgia, my top radiator tube temp was about 160F, despite running at highway speeds.

If that doesn't work, begin analyzing the airflow pattern in your engine bay. If you notice, air comes in, but doesn't really have anywhere to go after that! Putting small 12v fans at strategic locations on the fenders (for air evacuation) will help out a lot in keeping the engine cool.

I know the last comment seems excessive, but I learned this tip from a guy who stuffed a Vortec 8.1 into a TJ. Yes, he had some cooling problems at the beginning. The process mentioned above REALLY helped him a lot. I doubt you'll need to go that in depth, but hey, if it comes to that you have this option!

[crankin]

Another question, any one tried to replace engine FAN with electrical fan on the radiator?

It is most easy popular way to enchnce output power of engine in our area!

Any one tried it on land rover??

I ran one for about two weeks. My rad was flushed out and cleaned, so it was in great health...

I ran a 16" puller fan and had it kick on at 195 degrees. It seemed to be quieter in the cab and I could hear when it kicked on and off (it was much louder than the stock fan maybe due to the size). The biggest problem I had was while taking long trips the fan would run consistently.

I ended up going back stock.

[TedW]

I ran one for about two weeks. My rad was flushed out and cleaned, so it was in great health...

I ran a 16" puller fan and had it kick on at 195 degrees. It seemed to be quieter in the cab and I could hear when it kicked on and off (it was much louder than the stock fan maybe due to the size). The biggest problem I had was while taking long trips the fan would run consistently.

I ended up going back stock.

Clint: Very interesting. I run a pusher and it seldom runs - except when I'm stuck in traffic.

[BackInA88]

Clint: Very interesting. I run a pusher and it seldom runs - except when I'm stuck in traffic.


2X

Steve

[SafeAirOne]

I'm going to have to take a contrary position on this (though I run an electric fan for clearance reasons)...

Most non-factory (aftermarket) electric fans only pull/push air through their "footprint" on the radiator, leaving the corners and margins to be cooled with nothing but the little amount of ram air developed during forward movement of the vehicle.

Unless you have a shroud that allows your electric fan to pull/push air through your ENTIRE radiator, I don't think you'll beat a properly-shrouded engine-driven fan system for cooling efffectiveness.

Electric cooling fans became popular when auto manufacturers first began squeezing every mile-per-gallon they could possibly get out of cars (and when they started mounting engines sideways), not because they were necessarily better or more efficient, I suspect.

[TedW]

I'm going to have to take a contrary position on this (though I run an electric fan for clearance reasons)...

Most non-factory (aftermarket) electric fans only pull/push air through their "footprint" on the radiator, leaving the corners and margins to be cooled with nothing but the little amount of ram air developed during forward movement of the vehicle.

Unless you have a shroud that allows your electric fan to pull/push air through your ENTIRE radiator, I don't think you'll beat a properly-shrouded engine-driven fan system for cooling efffectiveness.

Electric cooling fans became popular when auto manufacturers first began squeezing every mile-per-gallon they could possibly get out of cars (and when they started mounting engines sideways), not because they were necessarily better or more efficient, I suspect.

Mark: I get your point. However, at the end of the day you have coolant coming out of the top hose at a particular temperature that is ultimately regulated by the electric fan. All of the coolant then comes out of the radiator at the bottom, and is of uniform temperature by the time it re-enters the block.

[TeriAnn]

If cooling is an issue, Proline makes a four core radiator.

Sometimes some of you guys drive me crazy. Proline does not make anything. Proline is not even a company.

Proline is the Rovers North house brand for all aftermarket parts sourced from any number of companies. Having a house brand and single part number system for aftermarket parts saves them inventory time and simplifies things.

Rovers North does a very good job of trying to source quality aftermarket parts to resell under the Proline label. But unless you ask, you never know if they got the part through Britpart, Allmakes or directly from an aftermarket or OEM manufacturer.

That said, I have an electric pusher fan out a a 1990 something V8 Mercedes that I got from a local wrecking yard for $45. A much higher quality Bosh fan that you will find at most auto parts stores and it just fits height wise inside the radiator bulkhead.


http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/gr_radfan.jpg

It does a good job of keeping up with my Land Rover's 302 V8 in hot summer travels. I have a 190 degree thermostat and my fan is set to go on at 195 degrees. Most of the time my engine runs 195 to 200. On long steep freeway grades it can get up to 225degrees in outside ambient temperatures over 100 degrees. but it quickly cools down afterwords.

[SafeAirOne]

Mark: I get your point. However, at the end of the day you have coolant coming out of the top hose at a particular temperature that is ultimately regulated by the electric fan. All of the coolant then comes out of the radiator at the bottom, and is of uniform temperature by the time it re-enters the block.

True. Well, 95% of the time, anyway.

My point is that the temperature is not always regulated effectively by an electric fan. Most people operate in environments where an electric fan will be just fine. However, it's been my experience that in extreme environments, my un-shrouded aftermarket electric fan couldn't regulate the temperature of my 2.5 diesel effectively. This usually happens while driving in deep, loose sand in 112-degreee (F) desert temperatures for more than a few hundred yards or when attempting to visit civilization by climbing 4000 feet out of the desert on interstate 8 in extreme southern California.

A shrouded engine-driven fan would have pulled WAY more air through the radiator in those situations, allowing me to go farther before having to stop and cool off. Of course, my aftermarket fan isn't as big and doesn't have as many blades as TeriAnn's, either.

[TedW]

True. Well, 95% of the time, anyway.

My point is that the temperature is not always regulated effectively by an electric fan. Most people operate in environments where an electric fan will be just fine. However, it's been my experience that in extreme environments, my un-shrouded aftermarket electric fan couldn't regulate the temperature of my 2.5 diesel effectively. This usually happens while driving in deep, loose sand in 112-degreee (F) desert temperatures for more than a few hundred yards or when attempting to visit civilization by climbing 4000 feet out of the desert on interstate 8 in extreme southern California.

A shrouded engine-driven fan would have pulled WAY more air through the radiator in those situations, allowing me to go farther before having to stop and cool off. Of course, my aftermarket fan isn't as big and doesn't have as many blades as TeriAnn's, either.

Got it. My situation isn't as extreme as yours seems to be. But how about a big fatty pusher fan with a shroud? This is a purely academic question for me, as I've run my electric fan since the first Clinton administration with no problems (no snark intended). I think that the take-away from this thread is that there is not a single solution for everyone. You need to know what your current situation is as well as what you might be getting into.

[yorker]

If I were in Dubai I think I'd stick with the tried and true original fan. They always work and are designed to take on the sort of weather you are accustomed to. In fact I'd probably consider the 8 blade military fan. You get to ~118F( 48C?) so why take chances with engine cooling? Fuel must be fairly cheap there so any MPG gain with an electric fan will be pointless, and you are not going to notice any HP gain from one either.

[TedW]

If I were in Dubai I think I'd stick with the tried and true original fan. They always work and are designed to take on the sort of weather you are accustomed to. In fact I'd probably consider the 8 blade military fan. You get to ~118F( 48C?) so why take chances with engine cooling? Fuel must be fairly cheap there so any MPG gain with an electric fan will be pointless, and you are not going to notice any HP gain from one either.

I'm probably with Yorker on this one..............

[crankin]

But more importantly...We really would like to see a picture of a UAE series! :thumb-up:

[SafeAirOne]

But more importantly...We really would like to see a picture of a UAE series! :thumb-up:


The "Before" picture from an earlier post:http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7171/6554886361_9d73f83239_z.jpg



We'll probably have to wait a little while for the "after" pics...

[crankin]

The "Before" picture from an earlier post:

We'll probably have to wait a little while for the "after" pics...

See what happens when I don't hang out here for a while...I miss things.

[dabawei]

The "Before" picture from an earlier post:


We'll probably have to wait a little while for the "after" pics...

Yep...I did not update you with progress; there are a much good enough progress made (since I am restoring in garage).

I'll try this weekend to update you ;)