Best suspension and steering damper

[PH4]

Any advice for best suspension solution for 1972 IIA 109 non-military stationwagon? Daily driver and also used off road but mainly mud and sand. Want the best solution for a city full of potholes. Moderate load and Brownchurch full roof rack. Parabolics sound like they may be the ticket but which ones and how many leaves for most comfortable (relative) ride?

Also, steering damper?

Advice much appreciated.

[jp-]

I ran a steering damper for years on the 109" until I realized I didn't need it.

If your front suspension is in good shape you will not need it. A steering damper only masks front suspension problems. In my case, my swivel ball top and bottom bearings were loose. Shiming them to the correct preload eliminated the front end shake that I was getting over bumps (which is why I had the damper in the first place).

Bottom line, unless you want to build your front arm strength, you don't need it.

[TeriAnn]

Any advice for best suspension solution for 1972 IIA 109 non-military stationwagon? Daily driver and also used off road but mainly mud and sand. Want the best solution for a city full of potholes. Moderate load and Brownchurch full roof rack. Parabolics sound like they may be the ticket but which ones and how many leaves for most comfortable (relative) ride?
Also, steering damper?


Parabolic springs provide less resistance to latteral twisting than semi elyptical springs do. I would not recommend parbolics be used on a vehicle with a loaded roof rack.

My advice would be to weigh your vehicle when it is fully loaded for an off road trip, includng fuel and people weights, to get front and rear axle weights. Rover provides range of springs each designed to handle a different weight. Pick the sofest one you can rated to handle your vehicle axle weight off road.

This will get you the sofest ride and best articulation from stock springs and better sway resistance than you will get from parabolics.

Heavier duty leaf springs are designed to work with additional weight and will not flex properly if the vehicle weight is too light. This gives a very rough ride.

Spring response can be improved if you place sheets of ultra high density plastic between the leaves. The stuff I use has a slide resistance approaching tefflon but has a high wear resistance. It was designed tor metal against metal sliding on manufacturing lines.

RE steering dampeners. I have one. I never noticed a before and after difference. It is still on because I never needed to remove it. I personally would not see a need to replace it if something happened to it.

[jp-]

The stuff I use has a slide resistance approaching tefflon but has a high wear resistance. It was designed tor metal against metal sliding on manufacturing lines.

UHMW?

[Tim Smith]

I'm using parabolics on my 88" and have found them fantastic other than the fact the truck is swaying to the drivers side all the time which obviously means there is a problem but has been nothing more than an annoyance. They were fitted before I bought this truck so I can't tell you who made them or if they were fitted correctly (with any certainty). But for daily around town driving with the odd full load (see the link) then these are the way to go.

In comparison, prior to getting behind the wheel of this truck I was driving a 109 military with the typical rusted solid multi leaf getup. The difference is amazing but don't forget that those old 109 military springs were well beyond their prime.

My advice is, if it's a daily driver and you aren't planning on expedition travel then parabolics are the way to go. Softer, more responsive and deal well with potholes and road contours. If you are planning on going for long distance travel while heavily loaded, then do what TeriAnn says. Weigh in and match your suspension to your weight.

I've no steering dampener experience, so can't help you there.

Cheers,
Tim

http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/BumbaFliesAgain/photo#5049662766549736386

[TeriAnn]

UHMW? Yep!

UHMW (ultra-high molecular weight) Polyethylene plastic. This plastic provides a low friction surface, similar to Teflon tape, but with a much higher abrasion and puncture resistance. It was designed specifically for commercial use on chutes, packaging lines, slides, and anywhere high pressure metal to metal sliding contact occurs. It also provides sound dampening, eliminating squeaks and rattles caused by adjacent parts movement. The plastic's temperature range is -40 to +225 degrees F. The plastic tape I like is 0.005" thick, comes on a 3 inch wide roll and has 1.5 mils of acrylic adhesive. It can be purchased from McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/) and is part number 76445A24 (You can do a part number search on their site to find the tape).


You disassemble the spring pack and stick the tape to the top side of each individual leaf, except for the top leaf of course. This tape virtually eliminates the friction between adjacent leaves in the leaf pack and dramatically increases the spring's ability to react to bumps in the road.:thumb-up:

[Mercedesrover]

I run two-leaf front and three-leaf rear parabolics on my 88" and like them just fine.

I've seen a few people on this board say these springs aren't any good for "long-distance, extended, expedition travel, etc." and I don't get it. My springs have been on the truck for 7 years now and I love them. I did replace the front pair after I bent one, beating hell out of the truck a few years back, but the rears are the same ones the truck was built with. The truck has been on two 4-week expeditions and is leaving for it's third this July. On these trips it is loaded pretty heavy carrying a month's worth of gear for two people and a dog and I couldn't be happier with it. It's comfortable and predictible and handles the weight just fine. Like wise, when the truck is light, it still rides pretty well also.

Put a set of paras under it and you're done. Everyone I know that has them is happy with them.

jim

[jp-]

Jim,

I couldn't agree more. I haven't noticed any appreciable roll in my 88" with the parabolics on it.


Tim,

That's a nice lightweight. I am curious, is that a snorkel on the front? If so, why did you mount it there?

Also, I don't notice any driver's side roll with my parabolics. You should definitely get under it and make sure everything is as it's supposed to be, and that nothing has worked loose.

[giorgio]

When I bought my 1968 Series IIA 109 2.6l NADA, the previous owner had already bought parabolic springs and OME shocks and steering damper.

Part of the deal, was that they would go ahead and install them. (An independent garage, specializing in British vehicles, and lots of Land Rovers around all of the time.)

Anyway, they had a lot of trouble getting the vehicle so that it would sit level with the new springs. It now (maybe six months later) has a definite list to port. (lower on the left side on level ground) I plan to take it to a spring shop and see if they can sort out the problems. Anyone have any suggestions on a possible cause?

I would consider taking it back to the independent garage, except I also asked them to do an oil change and check all fluids before I took delivery (on my ticket, not the seller's) When I checked the oil after a 70 mile original trip home after taking delivery, it was low. I checked the service ticket and they only put in 5 quarts. My owners manual says that it takes over six quarts with a filter change. Makes me question their attention to detail.

Giorgio

[Tim Smith]

... Anyway, they had a lot of trouble getting the vehicle so that it would sit level with the new springs. It now (maybe six months later) has a definite list to port....

Same here Giorgio. Listing to port. Makes me feel like a real fatty when I'm in the drivers seat. :o

I had brought my truck to an independent land rover garage for a wax-oiling (of course long after these springs were installed) and they suggested switching the front springs from side to side. Never did it, so I don't know if his suggestion was right. And nope, they did not install the springs.

One day I might try it but it's only about an inch difference between the two sides. If these trucks weren't so tall and skinny I might never have noticed the lean.

[Tim Smith]

Tim,

That's a nice lightweight. I am curious, is that a snorkel on the front? If so, why did you mount it there?

Thanks! It keeps a smile on my face and gets me where I need to be. :thumb-up:

No it's not a snorkel. As your question suggests, that is probably the worst place, unless you tried, to mount your intake for water fording. Just as you develop a wake, you would be drowning out. :eek:

It's the result of sitting in front of the truck with a RR air filter, a six pack, some plumbing pipes and a want to go to winter romp the next weekend. :p That was a little more than a year ago and it's still holding up. Must have been good beer.


Also, I don't notice any driver's side roll with my parabolics. You should definitely get under it and make sure everything is as it's supposed to be, and that nothing has worked loose.

Was under there on Sunday and found all sorts of problems. My suspension wasn't one of them. ;)

[jp-]

No it's not a snorkel.

Ok. I give up, what is it? An air intake filter?

If so, why not use the original?

[Tim Smith]

Ok. I give up, what is it? An air intake filter?

If so, why not use the original?

You got it. Air intake.

When I switched this motor into the truck, I also swapped out the old SU for my trusty Weber 34ICH. I think I gained about 8 mpg with the switch but forgot to tie up the speedo cable from the exhaust. So my speedo has been dead pretty much ever since the new motor went in. :o

The old paper element filter wouldn't fit the Weber and there is no mount for the oil bath in this truck. Not even a battery mount on the frame! So I devised this as a way to save a couple of bucks from buying an aftermarket setup.

I admit that this isn't the cleanest or well thought out setup but it does garner a lot of looks and comments. And it works. Plus I feel it has the added benefit of being an air-ram if I twist the drain catch around (although performance figures have yet to be released).

One of these days it's going to fall off and I'll have to remount it some where new. Perhaps on the roof? That would make a pretty good snorkel. But then I'd have to start waterproofing everything else. Looks like another night with the truck and a six pack. :thumb-up:

---

Sorry for the thread hijack PH4.

I stand by my original statement about parabolics being great for a daily driver but if you want to load up the truck for long trips then get the right springs for the weight. My truck is 2 leaf front and 3 leaf rear. Only time I overloaded it was when I was towing that stupid 35' foot camp trailer. Came close to overloading them when I filled the back with bricks, but it was still drivable.

I 'think' the truck tends to lean into the turns a bit more but once the weight of the truck gets on the springs they fight back and make the truck feel nice and stable. Takes a little getting used to when you switch from the original rusty lumps.

Actually found myself hitting the accelerator at the apex of a tight turn this morning pulling away from the car behind me. Felt like I was driving a sports car for a few minutes till I was reminded of the speed limit. 25! No wonder I was pulling away from that Mazda. :D

[jp-]

Plus I feel it has the added benefit of being an air-ram if I twist the drain catch around (although performance figures have yet to be released).

Ram-Air...

I love it.

I'm sure you'll get at least an additional .01 horsepower in top gear.:D

[jp-]

Back to the springs.

I have RM parabolics on the 109" with no noticeable lean, even with me behind the wheel.

I have BS (British Springs) on the 88" with no lean. My rear springs were marked NS (Near Side) and OS (Off Side). The fronts were not marked. If they were supposed to be sided, then I guess I got it right, because I just guessed on the fronts.

[Jim-ME]

I have Rocky Mountain springs and OME shocks on my 88. 2 leaves front and 3 leaves rear. I have no lean what so ever but the rear sits higher than the front by just a little bit. Kind of wish I had 2 leaves front and rear but it is the way it came, To be truthful it's been so long I honestly can't remember 9if the ride is better or not. I would put parabolics on any Rover I owned simply because I like the ability to run larger tires than stock.
Jim

[msggunny]

I have run Rocky Mountian Para's since i bought the truck in 02, been fine. It rides WAY better than before. I lived in a country where there was more pothole than road most of the time and the para's were a back saver, that and OME shocks. Took a few trips in it too loaded with gear and extra petrol, no problems even with 2 leaf rear and a hardtop.

I had a noticiable lean to the drivers side (RHD truck) but that got fixed this weekend when i welded on new front frame horns. one of the previous owners got in a wreck and had a bush mechanic weld on part of a frame horn, not the correct way to do it. it had a noticable lean that i couldnt figure out, nor could 2 different Land Rover shops in Uganda and Zimbabwe, both shops switched out the front springs side to side. it wasnt until i got down to bumper level and checked the hight of each side of the frame where the springs are attached that i saw how bad they were off. I dont have it all back together yet, taking care of POR-15ing some of the rust on the bulkhead first. once i get it on the road with the winch attached there shouldnt be any noticable lean.

Ok, who out there has para's and a winch? Any noticable sag from the extra 100+lbs?


Thanks!

[Tim Smith]

Ok, who out there has para's and a winch? Any noticable sag from the extra 100+lbs?

Yup, I got sag too although I never thought it was from the para's. I thought it was because of the set up. Hmm.

Again, running 2 leaf fronts, 3 leaf rears. The winch is an older warn (8574? is that right) and it's spooled up full of steal line. It's gotta be near 100 lbs but since the truck came with all this gear, I've never had it off to weigh it.

The winch:
http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/BumbaFliesAgain/photo#5049662259743595330

The sag (sorry for the bad photo):
http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/BumbaFliesAgain/photo#5049662465902025602

Take from this what you will.

Cheers,
Tim

[B. Wallace]

While we're on the topic, does anyone have any suggestions on brands for parabolics, or what not to buy for that matter. A salesman at DAP told me they stopped selling Rocky Mountains because of too many complaints.(That's what he stated, I have no clue as to the truth of that.) Also, does anyone own one of the Rovers North sets. Wouldn't be a bad deal once free shipping weekend comes around again...
-Ben

[PH4]

Thank you for all the responses to my original post. I believe I will go the parabolic route based on the responses and my needs. I am curious as to what brands used and reccomended also. Again, thank you as always, this forum hosted by Rovers North is an invaluable service.