New to winching, what line should i get?

[masonater]

Im new to the world of winches (not wenches :D) and recently scored a Warn 8274 in great shape. The cable was kinked in a few spots and rusty so i took it off. Since i got the winch so cheap i want to treat my self to a nice rope line. I've have heard of amsteel blue, plasma rope, some purple line a buddy mentioned, orange ones, and a guy that runs a tug boat here told me about some green ones. I like the fact that some were developed for ships. It is so salty here i have to treat my 109 like a boat. I have no idea what the differences are or what would be best for my application. That is almost always pulling someone out of the sand, and maybe the occasional stump removal

Should i get 5/16, 3/8, or what? I think 100 feet will be more than enough. Is a basic hook the way to go these days, or is there something cool i dont even know about?! The winch will eventually be mounted to a Pangolin bumper with all the bells and whistles, maybe even double as an air tank while im at it.

Thanks, mason
im very talkative tonight

[east high]

Not from experience, but I'll offer up some of the info I've found while doing my own research. I think you'd be better off with a synthetic rope over a wire cable due to the salty environment, and I've read that a winch is rope/cable is happiest when it's almost fully extended, so I'd err on the shorter side of things. I can't speak to thickness; I suppose that depends on the weight of the vehicle and how stuck in the junk you are.

I'm interested in what you find out too. :thumb-up:

[SafeAirOne]

One of the best, most comprehensive compilations of winching info on the web can be found here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/). It'll likely answer any questions you may have regarding winching operations and equipment.

EDIT: Just had another look at the link above--Unfortunately, the rope portion only deals with wire rope, though there's TONS of other good winching info that applies regardless of type of rope used.

[masonater]

I've read that a winch is rope/cable is happiest when it's almost fully extended, so I'd err on the shorter side of things. I

Interesting, good to know. Considering there is nothing here but sand to get stuck in, you are usually pretty close to what ever jeep you are pulling out.

Funny you should mention vehicle weight, i went to the dump today and drove up on the scale after throwing some stuff away. Truck was empty, just me and 10 gal. of gas. 3,560 is what it showed. I'm 170, and whats gas 6 or 7 pounds a gallon? call it 3,300lbs. Cool

[east high]

Just remember there are lots of modifiers to vehicle weight. I found a few helpful videos on Youtube when I was looking for info. Our host had an issue of their newsletter not too long ago that was all about the dos and don't of winching.

[ThePhotographer]

Based on previous orders and personal experience, I have found that a large majority of people prefer the synthetic route. This (http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-5664-plasma-winch-line-38-x-100.aspx) rope has sold very well, and I see a lot of winches using it. Good luck with your research!

[I Leak Oil]

Masterpull has some of the best products out there. Viking also has good stuff. Check them out. Lots of info on their sites.

[Lord Icon]

I have been teaching off road recovery and safe winching for years and the day that Dyneema sent a rep out to the field to show us the difference between metal and this new cool dental floss stuff I became a believer.
Besides all the safety reasons, besides the ease of spooling and removal. ay beyond the ability to splice and repair a rope in the field... the cold weather use and lack of heavy gloves needed is WONDERFUL.
Of all the brands I have used Dyneema seems to hold up best. They all appear to be the same plastic but some weaves are better than others.
As for size.... get the thickest you can afford. It has nothing to do with rating. The thicker stuff will not flatten on your spool as easy, it will act more like wire rope. Also, PLEASE READ INSTRUCTIONS THAT COME WITH ROPE.
I can't stress this enough... Wire needs a roller lead, the Dyneema REQUIRES an aluminum fairlead. Wire rope should be wound or spooled neatly, PLASTIC ROPE MUST BE SPOOLED FAST ACROSS THE DRUM. Due to it's ability to compress , it will pinch and cut for the centre of your drum . Like a fishing reel , notice the line is moved rapidly across the drum back and forth not loaded neatly?
Follow these basic rules and the high density plastic rope will be the best thing you have ever used.
Our hosts sell the best stuff . It has a nice body and does not flatten easily.
Oh, two more things, .. keep the sand out of the weeve, it acts like a knife, and second, when not in use keep the rope covered, Plastis is still plastic and does not like sunlight or uv. It will break down the rope in time.
Cheers, Kris

[LR Max]

I'm going to recommend Masterpull rope. I've got masterpull, all my friends have Masterpull, good stuff. Also they have EXCELLENT customer service.

Not saying the other rope brands are crap, I'm just saying my friends and I have had 100% satisfaction with Masterpull.

My friend has a 8274 on his Jeep. He put 3/8" x 100ft of masterpull on there. I tell ya what, it looks like it is supposed to be there! Works great, as well.

I would get the safety thimble on the end of your winch rope. I haven't had good luck with the hooks, they rusted shut on me. Obviously this is crap. But the safety thimble is easy to work with and...well...safe! Safety is good.

For rope length, here in the southeast, we have trees. Friggen trees everywhere. I've been running with 100ft of rope for the last 10 years or so. No problems. I even have a 50ft winch extension that is brand new, never been used. Just don't need it! So I if also have the same situation, then 100ft should be plenty.

Out west, those guys like 125 ft or even 150 ft of cable. Apparently trees and whatnot are few and far between.

Preparing the winch for rope use: You've probably already noticed the condition of your drum. Ayep, it looks like it has had steel wrapped around it. So take your wire brush and clean it up. Then slap a little paint on it just to protect it. Then you are good to go.

As mentioned above, you need a nice aluminum/plastic-like hawse fairlead for synthetic rope. I know, you get all upset over having to pay $50 for it. But TRUST ME it is worth it to keep your rope in good shape.

Installation of rope: Attach little eye thingie on the end of the rope to the drum. Then winch in about ~5 wraps of rope. Then attach the other end of the rope to a solid object. Winch the truck (make sure said truck is in neutral with no parking brake on!) while you lay the rope all nicely onto the drum. Do this until you have all your rope on. Then, done!

Top tip: The above procedure. Do this once a month. It will keep the winch gears from rusting up. Also it gives you monthly practice in using a winch and keeps you current. Helps when you are in the field.

Another top tip: Do the procedure with the truck OFF. Why? Because then you can get a feel of how strong your battery is, if you have to winch with the truck off. Did you do a full pull with minimal load and then the truck lit right up? Cool! Then the chances of doing a 1/4th pull under heavy load with the engine off is possible and still have juice to light it up.

When actually winching: If your engine is working (subject to the conditions) then make sure that the engine isn't at idle. Your alternator doesn't put out good amerage at idle. However at 2k rpm, it puts out good amerage! So remember this when winching.

If you do winch, NEVER WRAP YOUR ROPE AROUND YOUR BUMPER AND THEN DRIVE DOWN THE HIGHWAY. Why? Because the rope will fall off and wrap around a tire and ****** it. Then you lose control and you slide off the road. How do I know of this? Well, lets just say I hope you know how to learn from other peoples mistakes.

When off roading, keep your winch controller, D-ring and tree strap handy. Not under 6000lb of crap in the back. I've seen too many Jeeps stuck because their back bumper was against a tree and they couldn't open the rear to get their winch equipment. Yes, this sucks.

Gloves. Have. Doesn't matter its rope. You still want gloves. TRUST ME.

Other than that, its pretty straight forward. Don't be stupid and you'll be fine. I know you said that you were just looking for info on rope, but you also said you were new to the winch. Just figured I'd throw all this out there to make your winching experience a minor inconvenience of being stuck rather than a full blown emergency.

[east high]

I found this table concerning winch rope length in relationship to various winches. Seems weird - maybe has to do with spool size - but it might be of use. http://www.masterpull.com/results.cfm?catid=959

[antichrist]

Gloves. Have. Doesn't matter its rope. You still want gloves.X2.
I've seen bad winching habits that I guess people have developed because synthetic rope is "safer than wire rope". But there are still quite a few wire rope users (not to mention other recovery activities where you would wish you'd been wearing them) and bad habits will come back to haunt you.

[siii8873]

would think twice about using your bumper as an air tank. Do not think that this is legal in NY at least. Know a guy that was doing that and almost got in trouble with a trooper. He let him off but had to show them that it was disabled ie hole drilled in the bumper to do so.

[masonater]

would think twice about using your bumper as an air tank. Do not think that this is legal in NY at least. Know a guy that was doing that and almost got in trouble with a trooper. He let him off but had to show them that it was disabled ie hole drilled in the bumper to do so.

Im on Nantucket, we have no law and i used to date the troopers daughter in high school. Point taken though. One of these days they will probably pull me over for no front plate and no inspection sticker, i live dangerously :D

[LR Max]

Meh on the "tank bumper" They really don't have much capacity.

I look at having a 5 gallon air tank at ~110 psi. It doesn't have enough to fill my tires up after wheeling. Doubt a the bumper will have a 5 gallon capacity.

I always wanted to get a couple of tanks off of a big rig and use those. I bet they have a little bit of capacity. Maybe that and a home made version of the oasis compressor, be good to go!

[stomper]

Most synthetic ropes on the market are all made with Dyneema. Be weary of the amazon specials, as if the price seems too good to be true, it is usually an inferior rope. Masterpull, viking, amsteel, they all appear to be the same, except Masterpull does make a very expensive rope with a braided cover over the entire winch line. This would be ideal for keeping fine sand out of the rope, but it is super expensive! It is also fully UV resistant, so it doesn't need to be covered.

I am in the exact same boat as you, I'm waiting on a bumper from Downeast Coachworks here in Maine, and have a Warn 8274 ready to mount up to it. My wire rope is in perfect shape, but I am looking to switch it out to synthetic. 3/8 is the diameter you want, and in the Nantucket sand, if you are on your own, there are literally NO trees to winch from. Perhaps the 125' would be worth considering. the Warn 8274 can take up to 150' of synthetic 3/8" line. They also make a sand anchor to winch from, which might be practical to buy if you travel alone.

The safety thimble is a sweet piece of kit, and something I plan on using. good winch hooks typically have a closing catch to keep them from slipping off a tree strap. These rust if you don't keep them lubricated. The safety thimble has no moving parts, is made of aluminium, and accepts a shackle for hooking up to straps, vehicles, etc.

Also, the use of a hawse fairlead for synthetic rope is a myth. you can run a roller fairlead without risk of pinching the line. just make sure it is a new fairlead, and doesn't have wire rope scars on the rollers. They make delrin rollers specificly for using a roller fairlead with synthetic rope, but they are not ideal, as they can distort when winching under load. With it being a salty environment, I would go with the hawse fairlead though, they are cheaper, and there are no moving parts to rust up on you.

Don't forget to buy a few good bow shackles, and a snatch block. also a tree strap and a well made recovery strap.

[masonater]

wow, great info here. Thanks for the responses. Now i know what to research. I like the idea of tight weave wraps that block sand. It was gusting 40 today, sand went everywhere. Safety thimble is very slick, will get that for sure. Ive been looking at the winch plows, very cool tool. Already have some good gloves and recovery strap. i need some good USA shackles and a tree strap, even though all we have are dead pine trees and scrub oak bushes.

[antichrist]

I like CM shackles.
http://www.cmworks.com/SearchResults.aspx?search=catid:1243

I use the ones with a 5:1 design factor because it let's me go slightly smaller yet still have a good safety margin. Keep in mind that the "ultimate strength" is when it begins to deform, not when it breaks.
Here's a video of what I mean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=513Rn7uuJao
I don't know the brand, but it gives you an idea.

The Van Beest green pin are another good brand of shackle.
http://www.vanbeest.nl/home
I have several of their self-locking eye hooks and like them. They do need to be sprayed with WD-40, or the like, periodically.

[yorker]

i need some good USA shackles and a tree strap, even though all we have are dead pine trees and scrub oak bushes.

I usually hunt down Crosby shackles (http://www.liftingsafety.co.uk/product/screw-pin-anchor-shackles-2374.html#Shackles_Info). http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/ I've always had good luck with them.

Crosby carbon shackles have the highest design factor (6 to 1) in the industry. All of Crosby’s design factors are documented. Crosby purchases only special bar forging quality steel with special cleanliness and guaranteed hardenability. All material chemistry is independently verified prior to manufacturing. The design of Crosby shackles assure that strength, ductility and fatigue properties are met.

[LR Max]

Sounds like finding a point to tie off to might be difficult. I see you are in Nantucket. While I am not familiar with this place (I take that back, I got kicked out of the hat shop there when I was 17) but it sounds like trees might be few and far between.

A ground anchor might also need to be included in your setup. A winch isn't any good without something to attach it to!

Of course the pul pal is great. But if you are handy, I've seen a number of ground anchors made out of an old semi-float axle shaft. Grind the spline side down to a point (or if you find a broken one, then it might already have the point on it :D), weld a simple "plow" about 8" from the wheel flange, and you are good to go. Hammer it into the ground and start pulling. If you weld a big enough plow to it, it might perform alright in the sand. Hammer it in, then use hi-lift to get it out. Cheap and semi-easy considering you MIGHT use it once a year.

Do a little looking around. Like I said, cheap and actually fairly compact.

Dunno, just a suggestion. Normally I never think ground anchors are worth their weight in a rig but for sand, it is a whole other ball game!

[yorker]

http://www.forgetec4x4.co.uk/i/groundanchor.jpg one of those would be worth looking into.

or:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6564515-0-large.jpg http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6564515.html

[bpj911]

http://alliedboltinc.com/product/1-inch-X-66-inch-NO-WRENCH-SCREW-ANCHOR-8-inch-HELIX~1167.aspx

They come bigger and longer as well. We use them at work all the time

[antichrist]

I usually hunt down Crosby shackles (http://www.liftingsafety.co.uk/product/screw-pin-anchor-shackles-2374.html#Shackles_Info). http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/ I've always had good luck with them.Oops, thanks, forgot about them.

[yorker]

Oops, thanks, forgot about them.

I just like Crosby shackles- but honestly have no specific reason to chose them over the other good brands. The 45 degree marks ont hem are kind of cool. I also try to buy other rigging bits made by Gunnebo:

http://www.gunnebojohnson.com/shackles/model-858/

http://www.gunnebojohnson.com/shackles/model-854/

As long as you insist on a reputable brand you'll be ok. The Chinese ones might be ok too but I just won't take chances on stuff like this. I imagine most people feel the same way.:thumb-up:

Masonator: don't forget a couple snatch blocks:
http://www.dodgepowerwagon.com/glovebox/snatch.html

[SafeAirOne]

Hmm. Winches? Shackles? Ground anchors? Snatch blocks?

Perhaps Nantucket is a little more of a remote, rugged, inhospitable operating environment than everyone thinks when they picture Nantucket? Kinda sounds like a 4x4 off-road enthusiast's heaven.

Martha's Vineyard is probably the tame, laid-back place I'm thinking of... ;)

[I Leak Oil]

Ouch!

Which island has Jaws? Perhaps the winch could be used for a little heavy duty surf casting?

[masonater]

Jaws was over on the other island, he knew better than to mess with us. Sure could have used my winch last summer to help me reel in this bad boy! ;)

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/masonater84/whaledeath.jpg

[1971Series88]

^^^That^^^ is pretty funny - BUT very sad...:(

[masonater]

^^^That^^^ is pretty funny - BUT very sad...:(

sad indeed, i just couldn't resist. it was dead for weeks before it washed up. No word yet on the cause. Not too many of these left in the entire ocean, something like under 3,000 i think...

[I Leak Oil]

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x478/masonater84/whaledeath.jpg

I think I can smell that from here!
What test were you using?:p

[yorker]

I think tht is pretty cool. They have to die of something sometime, It is neat that you got to see it close up.

[disco2hse]

http://www.forgetec4x4.co.uk/i/groundanchor.jpg one of those would be worth looking into.

This is a good looking piece of kit.

This is also a very good option. Lan-cor (http://www.lan-cor.com/vehicle-recovery-in-action). Review here (http://www.lan-cor.com/images/stories/NZ4WD_Article_Pg1.pdf).

http://www.lan-cor.com/images/stories/4x4/main1.jpg

[LR Max]

Hmm. Winches? Shackles? Ground anchors? Snatch blocks?

Perhaps Nantucket is a little more of a remote, rugged, inhospitable operating environment than everyone thinks when they picture Nantucket? Kinda sounds like a 4x4 off-road enthusiast's heaven.

Martha's Vineyard is probably the tame, laid-back place I'm thinking of... ;)

You say this, but I am reminded of when Jeremy Clarkson drove the new LR3 (or LR4) or whatever. He got stuck and then tried to winch himself, only to realize he was in the middle of a wide open field with no anchors available.

Same setup here.

You'll figure out how useless a winch is, if you have nothing to attact it to. Its one of those "Better to learn from others" mistakes rather than learn first hand :rolleyes:

[slorocco]

Im on Nantucket, we have no law and i used to date the troopers daughter in high school. :D

I just had to laugh at that comment. Are you sure that's a plus for you and not a minus?:rolleyes:

[SafeAirOne]

You'll figure out how useless a winch is, if you have nothing to attact it to. Its one of those "Better to learn from others" mistakes rather than learn first hand :rolleyes:


Yeah--I was just teasing. But it IS Nantucket, the quaint summer tourist cottage rental hotspot.

[LR Max]

Yeah--I was just teasing. But it IS Nantucket, the quaint summer tourist cottage rental hotspot.

Possibly. I suggest we go check it out ourselves.

[JimCT]

If you have a winch I would hope you would have a shovel and you can always bury your spare as and anchor