1969 Series IIa - no third gear

[WilsBoar]

Looking to buy this 1969 Series IIa but it currently has an issue with shifting in to 3rd gear. No apparent catastrophic failure, just stopped going in to gear.

Owner said it may have something to due with a "stuck pin" in the shifter or worst case a synchro issue.

This vehicle may have sat for a long time and then it had this issue.

Any recommendations for approaching this problem without just dropping the tranny and taking it apart? If it was a synchro issue would it be able to shift into 4th gear? First and second gear still work.

[SafeAirOne]

Depends on how deeply you want to delve into somebody else's problem.

You could pull the floorboards and tunnel cover to make sure it's not just a worn shift lever end that's trying to select a new gear without first taking it out of the existing gear. They can sometimes behave this way when the end of the shift lever is worn.

If that looks OK, you could continue by removing the shift lever and the gear selector cover to see if it's just a shifter rod detent problem, which wouldn't be so bad, or whether it's a problem within the transmission innards, which would be so bad.

[knac1234]

Wilsboar,

Last year, my Series III all of a sudden lost 3rd/4th gear (limped home in 2nd w/OD!!).

Anyway, to make a long story short, with help from this board I was able to determine that the synchro spring clips had snapped and were jamming the synchro's movement. Not knowing a thing about transmissions, I was able to repair this with the tranny in place by removing the top cover; removing the gearshift and the selecting mechanism; draining the oil; and then pulling out the broken clips and replacing them with very long needle nose pliers.

Total repair cost (oil, new gearshift lever that caused the issue by trying to select two gears at once, extra clips, long right angled needle nose pliers): less than $100.

If this is the issue, then it is doable. You will lose a half pound of skin from your knuckles when reaching in there though!!!!

Good luck,
Julian

[artpeck]

Curious if it shifts into 4th fine and this is just a 3rd gear issue or is 4th hard to find out of a solid shift from 2nd as well?

[jumpmaster54]

Spare

I have a spare tranny but it is for a 2.6 6 cylinder. I suppose they are different?

Stan

[SafeAirOne]

I have a spare tranny but it is for a 2.6 6 cylinder. I suppose they are different?

Only the bellhousing bolt pattern. Just need to change ot a 4cyl bellhousing. Oh, and also the clutch release setup, depending on whether your 2.6 was of the Series III variety.

[WilsBoar]

Artpeck, It shifts in to everything except 3rd. It easily goes into 4th as well. If it was a synchro issue would 4th also not engage? I would feel better if that was the case (of course)

Knac1234 my inclination is to do just that process to see what gives. Also may drain the oil to see if any parts come out with it. I will probably douse it with pb blaster first to see if it may just be some crud keeping parts from moving the way they should be.

SafeAirOne, good idea that it may be a worn shift lever. It is original and doesnt appear to every have been removed.

JumpMaster54, your spare transmission might be the ticket if I find that this one is shot. Do have the bellhousing as well? Please PM on what you would want for your spare if that is the route I have to take.

Thanks all! I appreciate the help and the comments.

Derek

[SafeAirOne]

SafeAirOne, good idea that it may be a worn shift lever. It is original and doesnt appear to every have been removed.

The bulk of my advice was given in the belief that you couldn't select either 3rd and 4th, so the shift lever thing may not pan out in the end.

If you can tell that the shift lever hasn't been removed lately, you can probably see all 3 selector rod ends, where the shift lever fits. If they're all even and straight across when in neutral, and each selector rod returns to the neutral position before the next gear is selected, then the shift lever end isn't your problem.

[artpeck]

The bulk of my advice was given in the belief that you couldn't select either 3rd and 4th, so the shift lever thing may not pan out in the end.

If you can tell that the shift lever hasn't been removed lately, you can probably see all 3 selector rod ends, where the shift lever fits. If they're all even and straight across when in neutral, and each selector rod returns to the neutral position before the next gear is selected, then the shift lever end isn't your problem.

This was my point as well and hence my question on 3rd and 4th versus just 3rd. Sounds like innards but then I am not an innards expert. Just had the same issue with 3rd and 4th (and 1st and 2nd when downshifting) and it was a worn ball on the shift lever. Easy fix. Good luck.

[WilsBoar]

So, I found a series III transmission for my series IIa. I understand that the bellhousing bolt pattern will be different so I will need the series III bellhousing and clutch release assembly? What kind of question do I need to ask the guy with the transmission to make sure it will work for my IIa? Did the Series IIIs have anything but a 2.6 that would screw my plan up?

Derek

[SafeAirOne]

So, I found a series III transmission for my series IIa. I understand that the bellhousing bolt pattern will be different so I will need the series III bellhousing and clutch release assembly?

No. The bolt pattern will be different only if one was out of a 6-cylinder and the other out of a 4-cylinder. If they were both 4-cylinder transmissions, they will mate up with a 4-cylinder engine.

The only thing that is series-dependent is the clutch actuation method:

The SIII has the slave mounted right through the front of the bellhousing and points aft and DIRECTLY actuates the clutch throw lever on the inside of the bellhousing. (third diagram down on this page).

The SIIA has the slave mounted vertically beside the bellhousing and pushes a bellcrank connected to a rod that runs inside the bellhousing (top 2 diagrams on this page).

If you found a SIII transmission out of a 4-cylinder, you should just be able to install it and run a line from your existing clutch master cylinder to the slave on the front of the SIII transmission (if it comes with the slave. If not, just buy one and plumb it in).

You might want to check on this, but I think the different master cylinders will work equally well with either the SIIA or the SIII slave cylinders displacement-wise.

Not all series III's had 6-cylinder engines. In fact, most didn't (besides NADA). just ask the seller if the transmission was out of a 4-cylinder rover or a 6-cylinder rover.

[WilsBoar]

Thanks for the great rundown Mark. I will see what engine the series III had. I appreciate the info.

Derek

[Jim-ME]

Can one switch the bell housing/slave from a 2a on to a 3 to keep the original 2a clutch system?
Jim

[WilsBoar]

Hmmm, good question Jim. That may save some effort and $$ for me on this evolution.

[SafeAirOne]

Can one switch the bell housing/slave from a 2a on to a 3 to keep the original 2a clutch system?
Jim

I couldn't say for sure--I've never done it, but I'm sure somebody here knows one way or another. I suspect the input shafts and bellhousing mounts are compatible.