Bargaining Help

[Sputnic81]

I am looking to purchase my first Rover. I have found this '73 109 FFR that the owner wants $7700 for. It has two bad outriggers, a malfunctioning speedo, a rotted out rear cross member, rot in both door tops. It is about 10 hours from me so I have been getting my info through email exchange. Owner seems very willing to provide all the info I have asked for. I have several pics but am attaching just a handful that seem pertinent. If anyone sees anything in them that I have not already mentioned or can give me further help with bargaining. I get the feeling that this is more of a $2500 truck. What do you guys think?

There are too many photos and they are too big to post in here so I here is a link to the Flickr folder where they can be found. Also the video is of the Rover being started and running.

http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk206/Mod24v/?action=view&current=013.mp4
http://flic.kr/ps/gbBHd
Thanks for all your help. I am very excited to get my first Rover, but I don't want to ruin it by overpaying for a hunk of junk.

I should also mention that I have some idea of what I am getting into. I am fully capable of doing mechanical, electrical and body work (welding, painting etc). I am not looking for an immaculate perfect specimen. Just a project to occupy the free time and spend the extra money I don't have.

[giftshopduane]

Where are you located I just saw an astounding looking ser II 88 for sale here in New England for that price.. galvy frame, I would have bought it had I the spare $$.

[o2batsea]

Pass. The bulkhead and the frame alone are going to cost you about 5-6000 dollars, by the time you get into this, you will have probably another 5 grand in "as long as I'm in this far" add ons. Then you'll want to replace seals, brakes,etc.

This is a 15-20 thousand dollar project

[westcoastkevin]

Agreed.. you will need money, time, tools and skills for this one.

[ThePhotographer]

$7700 :confused:

Because of the new exhaust on it??? Stay away...

[jac04]

I am very excited to get my first Rover, but I don't want to ruin it by overpaying for a hunk of junk.


At least you realize this up front. Many people get hooked on Rovers and overpay to get one.

I'll agree with everyone else that this vehicle is overpriced. The seller either doesn't really want to sell or believes they have a very rare vehicle. Is the vehicle even worth $2500? Maybe if you just have to have a 73 109 FFR, but otherwise I say no.

[TedW]

X2 to the prevailing opinion on this thread: IMHO this truck is way overpriced and you will spend mucho to get it fixed up.

Keep looking.

[daveb]

I don't know guys. Yeah, there is some rust. But, if the truck is good runner with all other systems functional, it could be worth a bit more than the $2500. Though definitely not the asking price. Depends somewhat on the OP's ability to cut and weld, and lots of other factors including whether it is going to be a full on restore or just an attempt to fix the big problems and just get the thing back on the road.

[NickDawson]

Just looked at a much nicer tuck for a fraction of that asking price this week...

Agree with the others who are suggesting caution.

I also agree with daveb, there's a lot to be said about the conditions of all the other systems. If it's a good runner with frame rust and some rot, you might be several years of fun out of it before needing to tackle anything too serious. That said, one has to wonder if the rot is indicative of the overall condition.

Still, find some comps, use those for comparison and, if needed, bargaining.

[mearstrae]

Being your first Rover I'd say this vehicle is a N.E.F.F. [not even for free]. If you want a $10,000 Rover, buy one for $3,000 and put $7,000 in it and get back maybe $8,000 when you sell it off. Or just buy the best condition Rover you can find at a reasonable price and save youself some headaches. Take your time and shop around, don't get the bug and jump on the first one you see, because sure enough a really nice one will come along just after you buy a fixer-upper.

'95 R.R. Classic LWB
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[yorker]

The military Rovers used undercoating which can actually hold in salt and moisture while concealing the damage it has done. If those are the very worst spots then maybe it isn't all bad but you really need to examine it up close and consider all the other mechanicals, body, etc.

[o2batsea]

Well, sometimes people buy with their heart and not with their head (guilty) so that the problems that look like deal killers to the experienced become mere speed bumps; easily rationalized.
Whether you buy this or not is probably, in the long run, immaterial. It will probably not be your last Rover or last project. Understand that you have a problem. One truck is not the cure.

[Sputnic81]

Wow, I like this forum already, not only did I get a lead on another truck through PM, but it would have taken weeks to get this many responses on the other forums I am on. Thanks guys!

I am trying to get the best one I can afford. My problem right now is that "afford" word. The wife and I have differing opinions on what is a decent price. I see the truck once I have crawled around on it, painted here and there and made it my own. She sees only the 40 year old army paint that is actually there.

I like the idea of a project truck, but I would like to enjoy it for awhile and get accustomed to it before I jump into any major overhauls. Plus I have a hard time pulling the trigger on something like that when I can't crawl around on it and see what it really needs.

There is a member here that's offered a solid looking IIA 109 with pick-up cab and full hard top for $7800 which seems a little more reasonable given that he says there is little rust in any of the main areas, strong motor etc. Again though distance becomes an issue, I'm not going to throw out his name or location as I can't help but think if he wanted the info out there he would put it out himself.

Is anyone near KC, MO? I can't help but think if the wife could see one up close and maybe ride in it she would be more apt to get onboard.

I will keep you all posted on my search, Thanks again.

[amcordo]

[QUOTE=Sputnic81;84019]...I can't help but think if the wife could see one up close and maybe ride in it she would be more apt to get onboard...QUOTE]

Just judging by the reactions from my female friends I would caution against this thinking. Actually, judging by the reactions of almost all of my friends, male or female, this isn't too true. She's going to see a smelly, dirty, uncomfortable truck - even if it's in prime condition. Forgiveness is easier to come by than qualified permission.

[yorker]

I am trying to get the best one I can afford. My problem right now is that "afford" word. The wife and I have differing opinions on what is a decent price. I see the truck once I have crawled around on it, painted here and there and made it my own. She sees only the 40 year old army paint that is actually there...

You need to look for a different truck or a different wife then. I'm not sure having her ride in one will solve your problem. Unless she is a rare bird and really marches to the tune of a different drummer, a lot of women end up resenting these trucks and the attention they require. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones but a lot of series owners end up with wives who look over their shoulders and force them to justify every purchase for the truck. Make sure your's is REALLY on board with this thing before you jump in.

[mearstrae]

When I bought my first Series, my wife was onboard, and actually wanted it for herself. But then again she was driving a Range Rover when we got married [And we all know one Rover is never enough, but sometimes too many]. Stranger things happen....

'95 R.R. Classic LWB
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[SafeAirOne]

... a lot of series owners end up with wives who look over their shoulders and force them to justify every purchase for the truck.

I see you've met my wife...

[SalemRover]

The wife thing can be easily balanced by children. My kids love the rover and that is all that needs to happen to keep the rover as being important to maintain. I am fortunate in that my wife does enjoy driving it in the summer with the top down. She used the rover to commute to work for a year, granted it was a short drive but she did it. On the flip side she doesnt "get it" in terms of how to drive and thrashes the poor thing racing for the train. I look away as she races a cold engine out of the driveway.

[Sputnic81]

The wife thing can be easily balanced by children.


i should be good then, I have three boys who are all ECSTATIC about getting a Rover!

[TedW]

Some wives support Rover ownership because it means that they always know where their husbands are........

[NickDawson]

I like the idea of a project truck, but I would like to enjoy it for awhile and get accustomed to it before I jump into any major overhauls. Plus I have a hard time pulling the trigger on something like that when I can't crawl around on it and see what it really needs.


Sounds a lot like some of the first posts I made on this board :)

As the kids on the internet say, "learn from my fail". :)

Your passion, motivation and interest is spot on. You're going to love Rover Ownership. Just don't pull the trigger on the wrong one. I had the exact same goals and challenges - balancing budget, excitement, availability of trucks, etc. Ultimately, against the good advice of many on this board, I chose to import a truck sight unseen. Truthfully, I wouldn't change a thing about the experience, I love my truck. But if I had known then what I know now, I would likely have keept looking here.

Which leads to part of the challenge - evaluating the right truck. I'm not sure, even if I had found a truck in the US, I would have made a smart purchase. Simply because, unless you have history and experience with Series Rovers, it's hard to know how to really evaluate them. That's easily confounded by aesthetic - a nice paint job on a rusty truck fools our brains into like it more than faded heap in great mechanical shape.

What's your comfort level with mechanical systems? Could you look at brake lines, wheel cylinders, drums, etc and make a fair evaluation of their condition - or for any other major system? For me, looking for a learning project, it would have helped to find someone to take with me who had that expertise (several here offered).

Finally, to the point others have made, where do you want to put your time and money? For instance, for me a paint job seemed like a $3-4K endeavor on a beat up truck. But, if I totaled up all the parts I've put into fixing system problems on my shiny truck, it's probably more than a paint job. I'm using paint as an example here, but it could just as easily be the frame, motor, etc.

Today, I might rather drive around a mechanically sound work in progress, and slowly add money to the fun things as opposed to making a poor buying decision and having to pour money into keeping it going.

As for the wife thing, if you think she'll love it, then she probably will. Mine loves our series, although I can't ever get her interested in driving it. To her, it's our weekend ride with room for the dog, it takes us camping... what's not to love? When it comes to budgeting for it, we treat it like anything else. I subtract about 50% from costs when I tell her about them and she subtracts about 50% of costs when she tells me about the shoes she buys and we both live blissfully ignorant.

[o2batsea]

It's not hard to figure out. Don't buy one that's all rusty, and don't pay more than you can get away with. With very few exceptions, you can more or less build anything Series Rover from parts. A bulkhead here, a tub there and a chassis from this dude and some Range Rover axles from that dude and, well, you get the idea. Maybe even for less than it would cost to buy a whole truck. Hard to say.
I bet I could source everything that ex MOD truck has for less than that seven large. Oh wait I'm cheating cz I already have enough chit laying around to make at least one truck, and maybe two.
Hey wanna come over to the barn and do some shopping?
Priced to move: 109 SW rolling chassis in good nick with mods for V8, 109 wagon tub, 3.9 engine, 4.6 engine, RRC for parts with good axles, brakes wheels etc, windshields, and lots of "smalls"

[Sputnic81]

I am new to Rovers, but not to old cars. I grew up under the hood of old VW's and Beamers. I was that weird kid that took everything apart just to see how it worked and if I could put it back together and have it still work.
The truck I am looking at on here looks and is advertised as being very solid structurally and mechanically... What turns the wife off is that it is not shiny and "pretty". I keep trying to tell her that paint is an easy fix. Plus I like the 'patina' as many others have put it- like character marks on a trusted hunting rifle. As I get closer to sealing a deal I will definitely enlist some assistance in assessing my prospect-especially since it is a 23 hour drive from me. Again thanks for all the help... If owning a Series is as muc fun as shopping for one, this is gonna be great!

[o2batsea]

I grew up under the hood of old VW's and Beamers. I was that weird kid that took everything apart just to see how it worked and if I could put it back together and have it still work.

You, my friend, are we.