Daily Driver 109

[Dr Mark]

All-
I am searching for a LHD 109 Station Wagon to use as a daily driver. I grew up driving an older truck (a blazer) with significant rust and maintenance. I have read many many posts on multiple forums about people who bought their rover for a several thousand $$ and spent the next ? years tweaking it to make it how they wanted it. I did not, however, see any posts about buying a rover already finished. At my current stage of life (new job, kids, etc) I do not have the time to build my own 109. I am not in the market for a rover finished to try and be a BMW or some other fancy car, but I want something that would drive well, be dependable with basic maintenance (oil + filter changes, brake + tire inspections, etc), wouldn't have me getting to work soaking wet or smelling like i took an oil bath, and be a good daily driver. Questions:
- Who refinishes and sells rovers? I have seen several sellers online but I haven't read much about who is recommended by you all. I am located in Wisconsin but would ship / travel to get the right rover.
- What should I look for in a finished rover like this? I expect to get a rover with a galvanized frame, new LHD bulkhead / firewall, OME shocks/springs, OME steering stabilizer...
- What would a rover like this cost? I know you get what you pay for, and I want something nice that my wife wouldn't mind driving too. Remember, I don't want a BMW, I don't need a DVD player, and I'm not buying from East Coast Rovers...
- What engine / trans would you put in? I am not a diesel mechanic. I have looked at petrol vs. a 300tdi...
- Am I being too wishful looking for a car like this or wanting to use it as a daily driver? I consider myself handy and mechanical, I have done basic maintenance on my vehicles in the past, but I would not (currently) feel comfortable rebuilding a transmission or welding the frame... I won't have a long commute (~15 mins each way, easy suburb driving) and would have a back up car if needed...

Any and all comments are appreciated. I have thick skin but be nice if you think I'm crazy. Thanks!
-Mark

[ignotus]

If you want to get one in the States, there are some restorers but you pay for it! Get a search engine going on craigslist to search the nation for a seller. Check out www.lrx.com . Try Oklahoma off road(google for website) Mark has some stuff now and again, usually he puts ads on LRX. Stateside a restored one like you might be looking at can be anywhere from $25k to $160K. Check Ebay both here and in the UK. Lastly think about finding one in Canada or the UK. They are more plentiful in the UK and therefor cheaper, you could also have one built up for you over there. It's only money!

gene

[Ncrover725]

For the past year I have used my 109 as my daily driver which equates to about a 80 mile round trip drive to and from work. The only issue I have had is a slight wiring issue. I have the standard 2.25 petrol and no mods. I think finding one with a good history and documentation was my biggest requirement.

[Jim-ME]

What is your budget? I know of a great expertly built 109 for sale in CT.
Jim

[Dr Mark]

Thanks for the comments! ignotus, i have seen some of the websites you mentioned but I never know how reputable the sellers are. NCRover, it is nice to hear of other people using their rover as a daily driver. Jim- I could easily spend $20-30k and would be willing to go a bit higher for "the right" rover (in terms of finish, quality, dependability,etc). Thanks!

[scatterling]

:thumb-up:I second this thought :thumb-up:


What is your budget? I know of a great expertly built 109 for sale in CT.
Jim

[giftshopduane]

wouldn't have me getting to work soaking wet or smelling like i took an oil bath

Are you sure you want a Series to drive? Those are 2 big reasons to own one... it might be a little too "unrefined" for what your looking for. What about a D90 or 110? You can, by all means drive a Series every day, I plan on doing so with my 88, but there are some trade offs, I also own a Range Rover and a Discovery for a reason. Do some more research and soul searching, it is doable. Good luck.

[o2batsea]

Consider that nobody wants to work on Rovers. You need to find a shop that is willing to do your "dirty" work if you can't/won't. That's the first thing. Second is that these things suck down an incredible amount of time and money to keep them going, and even at that often suffer major mechanical injury like busted gearboxes and blown engines. You must keep a rainy day fund on hand.
If you can depend on one thing about Rovers, it's that you can't depend on them. As a DD you really need a backup plan.
Don't kid yourself that you are just going to buy it and drive it and everything will be cool.
Next thing is that Series parts are getting harder to find and more expensive with each passing year. Any Series will be a rolling restoration in some fashion or another.
I know I'm being a downer, but the fantasy is nice until the reality sets in. Deep pockets and patience define the Land Rover experience.

[mearstrae]

I've got a Series III 109 that's done as a hybrid [so it's really an '80's Range Rover, or more like a Stage 1 Series, underneath]. And I've used it as a daily driver, with some American changes to make it more reliable [than a typical Series...]. But if you have the cash go for a Defender, they do all a Series will do with better manners and easier to find parts and a better chance of finding a mechanic who will understand its workings. Ever panic stop in traffic in a truck with all drum brakes? It's not fun and the nerves get a good testing. Or pray for enough heat in winter to just defrost your windscreen?

'95 R.R. Classic LWB
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[bpj911]

I don't think they are too much different than any other old truck. If you can't do the work yourself would be the worst thing. There seems to be a certain amount of things you have to live with when you drive a rover if you don't want it to be down all the time.

I have found that it makes my rover ownership go better to have a pile of spare parts around. I haven't been too successful at buying much locally, even with the part numbers. It pays to have some regular maint parts on hand for sure.

My most recent truck has the iron duke engine in it and while I was initially dubious about it I have found it to be much easier to deal with as a daily driver than others I have had. It is almost like having a regular vehicle. My wife and I went about 200 miles in it yesterday antique shopping over in Iowa and she was surprised at how civilized it was compared to pretty much everything else I have had.

[bpj911]

I meant to mention that I bought this truck from Ike at Pangolin and it made the drive from Seattle to Nebraska. It cost less than half the lower figure you mentioned and is rust free and dependable enough to drive across the country again with as much as checking the oil and checking air in the tires. So, you don't have to spend 30 grand to buy a decent daily driver.

[SafeAirOne]

Not sure why everyone wants to talk the poster into a different vehicle--He clearly is familiar with older vehicles, has a good idea what he is looking for in a 109, is willing and able to do non-overhaul maintenance on a solid, previously well-maintained 109 and has access to a backup vehicle. Sounds like a decent 109 is perfect for his wants and needs. His price range is just fine for finding a 109 that meets his criteria. I'm sure that if he wanted a Discovery, he would be looking for a Discovery.

There's nothing wrong with daily-driving a 109. I've done it for the last 8 years and that's just a drop in the bucket compared do tens of thousands of other people worldwide over the years.

If I had a choice of engine, it would be a diesel, plain and simple. First of all--MUCH simpler with MUCH less maintenance/headache involved over the life of the engine with a diesel and diesels have a MUCH greater range than the petrols. The tradeoff is in horsepower. The fact is, however, that you're most likely to find a 2 1/4 petrol engine in 90% of the 109s out there unless somebody converted to another powerplant. Still the 2 1/4 petrol is fine if the carb is set up right and you are supplying clean fuel to it and you don't mind doing regular tune-up type stuff.

200/300Tdi's are nice. 2.25 diesels are really underpowered for a 109 SW. 2.5NADs are just plain old underpowered for a 109SW, though that's what's been satisfactorilly dragging my 109 around for years.

As for where to get a 109 that meets the poster's specifications...They're around. Check the usual sources. You just need to be patient or if you have more money than time, you could buy a nice solid rover and have the extra goodies like the OME stuff added by one of the dozens of businesses that work on old Rovers around the country (or do it yourself, since adding new springs and shocks is pretty routine).

You'll be just fine using a well-maintained 109 as a daily driver!

[Escargo]

Hey Doc, Give Lanny Clarke in Vermont a call. He rebuilt an 88 for me and I'm so glad I sent it to him. I'ld still have a pile of parts in the yard if I didn't. Other than routine maintenance, I've just added little custom things as I wanted. He is usually booked up pretty well but you could get lucky. He can sometimes even find a "donor" vehicle. I'm not sure a 109 SW would come that cheap though.
I would really reccomend that you drive a series vehicle before you jump in with both feet. They are different from even a Blazer.
I can tell you one thing, my wife will NOT drive it. She won't even ride very far in it. Something about lack of airbags or something like that.
Good Luck, Hans

[Dr Mark]

Hey thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses. I do like the "unrefined" nature of the 109, that it can look great but still be very utilitarian. Those of you offering advise that a 109 might not be a great "fit" for me are just giving your opinions - thanks. I'm not taking anything personal. I appreciate hearing from those of you who HAVE used their 109 as a daily driver. How dry can you get the inside? Thanks for your time and responses everyone.
-M

[Partsman]

How dry can you get the inside? Thanks for your time and responses everyone.
-M

I drive a 109 pick-up, and drove an 88 SW as a DD for years, if you have good door seals, and have a head liner, you wont have any moisture issues at all, my 88 didn't have a head liner, and I only got moisture problems after installing door seals (go figure :confused: ) but either way, I'd highly recommend a 109 as a DD. Listen to the advice above about engine type, it'll stand you in good stead. And as for who to buy from, check with Ike at Pangolin, or the Rover Ranch in N.M. both have very good reputations.

[o2batsea]

Not sure why everyone wants to talk the poster into a different vehicle--He clearly is familiar with older vehicles, has a good idea what he is looking for in a 109, is willing and able to do non-overhaul maintenance on a solid, previously well-maintained 109 and has access to a backup vehicle.

I don't see how you read that from any posts in this thread. Nobody said that.

Also, when I mentioned that nobody (mechanics, that is) wants to work on Rovers, I meant ANY Rover, not just Series ones. Now obviously they (Rovers) must get maintained by somebody or else there wouldn't be so many out there still. There's the stealership, of course. Dunno. If I had to have some work done I have no clue where I'd go and I live in a very populous area with tons of Land Rovers around. Every place I've tried that's nearby sends me away. I'd have to go to Arlington (whoops, not any more since Carlos left there) or effing Chantilly. That's why I do all my own work (if you're following along at home I just replaced the transmission in the LWB) and don't depend on outsiders for help.

[I Leak Oil]

Are you sure you want a Series to drive? Those are 2 big reasons to own one... it might be a little too "unrefined" for what your looking for. What about a D90 or 110? You can, by all means drive a Series every day, I plan on doing so with my 88, but there are some trade offs, I also own a Range Rover and a Discovery for a reason. Do some more research and soul searching, it is doable. Good luck.

This post clearly suggests the OP consider something else for a DD......

[Dr Mark]

This post clearly suggests the OP consider something else for a DD......

I understand you guys are trying to keep the thread on topic but I also do want people to be realistic with me. If I am only seeing roses and rainbows, please let me know I'm crazy. I did ask in the OP if I was being too "wishful" in my search for a 109 daily driver. I do appreciate the comments from everyone.

[knac1234]

OK....here's my two cents.....

Daily driver---FWIW, mine is a daily driver, unless broken down (which, other than my latest issue, has been once in 7K miles....and that was a tranny problem that, knowing NOTHING about trannies, I fixed in 6 hours in the middle of the snow outside!). I commute 30 miles round trip, and it is fine. I would recommend overdrive strongly, especially if commuting on the freeway (which I wouldn't particulary want to do even with it).

Maintenance---I'm no stranger to Brit cars. I've logged 100K miles in my MGBGT; 25K miles in my MGB; 10K miles in my Imp; and 7K miles in my Rover......I have NEVER been left stranded, but for a generator in the MGB....and by luck it went out on a roadtrip near Moss Motors, so I swapped it out in the parking lot! Anyway, maintain them, and they will take care of you. Let them go, and they will not. I am no mechanic--I know nothing of internal engine or tranny--but I've been able to do enough to keep them trustworthy! Rovers.....I am fortunate that there is a shop near me willing to work on it---and they know the vehicles well to fill the void when I can't do it.

Comfort/Performance---Uh....not. Mine leaks a little (and mechanically!). It's loud. It smells a bit of 90wt. But, I've added a few comforts to make it more than acceptable (radio....ooh.... and heated windscreen for the Colorado winters). My only "issue" is the sloooness. As Mark mentions, his diesel is somewhat underpowered. So is my petrol 2.25. The slow lane will have your name engraved on it! I deal with 9000 ft altitude also and some good hills, but just pull over and give it all you've got!!! Plan ahead and get some momentum going and hope the light doesn't change to red in the middle of that plan!!!!!! Some times I use my hazards! Most people smile---cause the style factor is cool. Some---stuck behind you in traffic---might want to pull out their 12-gauge.....just duck!


Good luck with it!
Julian

[1971Series88]

Hey Daktari - one thing that may be neglected in the posts so far...AVAILABILITY (therefore cost)....your choice is for a LHD 109" - can't remember if it was 5 door (but that would be mine). These are like hens teeth when available, and cost is a huge factor. One thing you may want to consider is a RHD one - that would open up the availability, and therefore cost equation a little more in your favor.

I applaud anyone who wants to jump in and save these wonderful pieces of history - or just doing it to look cool, and get looks...either way - GOOD LUCK - this is a great forum for advice and opinions.

[I Leak Oil]

I understand you guys are trying to keep the thread on topic but I also do want people to be realistic with me. If I am only seeing roses and rainbows, please let me know I'm crazy.

Gotcha, you are crazy if you think it's only roses and rainbows but I don't get the impression you do. The reality is, most people who think they will use this as their daily driver don't do so for very long. There are those who have the right personality to put up with the roses and poison ivy enough to do it, but most don't.

[Cutter]

One thing that might be worth considering is the type of commute. If you are logging a lot of highway miles, you really want an overdrive and would benefit from a tdi or alternative power plant. I have the rover 6 in mine and it is much better on the highway than a 2.25, but it is thirsty and has its downsides (parts, maintenance is a bit of a pain). I think in your price range you can definitely find a good 109, it might take some time to find the right one. You may want to buy a diamond in the rough and have a shop do the restoration and swap to your likings, that way it is done to your satisfaction.

[yorker]

If I had a choice of engine, it would be a diesel, plain and simple. First of all--MUCH simpler with MUCH less maintenance/headache involved over the life of the engine with a diesel and diesels have a MUCH greater range than the petrols. The tradeoff is in horsepower. The fact is, however, that you're most likely to find a 2 1/4 petrol engine in 90% of the 109s out there unless somebody converted to another powerplant. Still the 2 1/4 petrol is fine if the carb is set up right and you are supplying clean fuel to it and you don't mind doing regular tune-up type stuff.

You know now a lot of people seem to ascribe to that theory but how many times have you had the head off your LR Diesel? The 2.25p isn't any more problematic than a Rover diesel. Change the plugs and wires once in a while and just drive it, take care of it and it will give you loads of trouble free miles, they are overbuilt for gasoline engines and really anthing that does happen to them is easy to fix- it isn't like they have much to go wrong to begin with. No timing belts to change, no diesel to gel, no fuel injection pump to rebuild, no hard starting due to wandering timing issues(2.25d).

[yorker]

I understand you guys are trying to keep the thread on topic but I also do want people to be realistic with me. If I am only seeing roses and rainbows, please let me know I'm crazy. I did ask in the OP if I was being too "wishful" in my search for a 109 daily driver. I do appreciate the comments from everyone.

I may have missed it but have you test driven a 109 yet? There are a lot of people who buy these things based on the romance of owning a Land Rover only to fins that the ownership ordeal is more than they had bargained for. Do you have to show up to work on tine, clean and not smelling like oil or exhaust? Do you expect to be able to hop on I-95 and drive 75MPH with the traffic? Series Land Rovers have more in common with a farm tractor than they do modern cars, even the moden American trucks of the '60's and ';70s differed greatly from them in terms of power, top speed, fuel consumption, driver comfort, etc.

[Dr Mark]

yorker- thanks for the insight. no, haven't test driven one yet. looking for ones in the area to try. the idea of driving a rover and all that it entails is some of the appeal, but i don't think i'm approaching the idea blind. i don't think the duration or speed of the commute would be a huge factor as it is short and i'd just adjust accordingly and i'm not a speedy driver anyway. it might go for some highway drives to the cabin but that wouldn't be the primary use. in that line of thought though, wouldn't a bigger engine (V8 vs diesel, with overdrive, etc) allow for a better freeway experience?

arriving at my destination clean / dry / without exhaust odor is the bigger question for me. i expect to get greasy when i'm working on or under it, would hope to be able to stay relatively clean when in it. this is part of the decision for me: can i find ways to make the interior "less dirty" (also so my wife will drive with me) while keeping the utilitarian simplicity of the interior.

[yorker]

If you found a nice Stage One V8 109 I think you'd be happier than with any of the 4 cylinder ones. The performance gap isn't nearly as bad, they also have a better transmission. Had Land Rover made them sooner and imported them tot he US I think they'd have done FAR better in our market.

I find that living with old cars is like living with a smoker- one way or the other you always seem to get that smell on your clothes if you spend any time around them. Sometimes it isn't that bad and you get used to it. It is a thing you never think about though when you are used to modern cars.

[Cutter]

No problems with stink or getting dirty in my truck for what its worth. If you want a V8 I'd really push for a defender, a stage 1 is getting close.

[giftshopduane]

This post clearly suggests the OP consider something else for a DD......
This post clearly gave options, it does in no way say go with something else, it clearly states there are trade off's AND ends with it is "doable" and I wished him luck in his search. Plus a D90 or 110 offers the same styling and similar lifestyle as a 109 but with somewhat more refinement...(as I bite my tongue) they are just alternatives if a series proves to be a bit harsh.. plus my reply was in response to his not wanting to get wet or smell of gas, 2 distinct possibilities.

[Billy5]

I couldn't help but read this thread..reminds me of myself. I have an 88 I bought in July last year. It is my dd. Some of the posts I agree some I don't . Buy one that is complete and hasn't been toyed with ( read butchered). Outside of an electrical issue caused by the PO not making correct connection, it hasn't failed me at all. These are not maintenance intensive, but not set it and forget it either. As its been said, take care of it and it will take care of you. In other words, if something needs to be addressed, fix it as quickly as you can. Now, the smells...ever get 90w on you? Just a small speck will stick with you for hours even after showering. It gets in the hairs of our nose..lol. This what you most likely will smell after a highway drive. Not major, remember there is no fancy linings or other material between you and the drivetrain. Engine, transmission etc..and a little bit of metal. There is also a smell of gas the engine is about a foot and a half in front of you ( again no nice blanket between). Now the question of speed. This is a relative term. When I get on the highway ( freeway), I get to the right lane and stay there. I have a 2.25 petrol so I can't speak about diesels. I find 50-55 is right. Any faster and my ears can't stand hearing the engine revs. These are not geared for highway use. THis being said, I love it. Sometimes do I wish I can have a radio sure, being able to get somewhere a little faster sometimes? Yep. But, when I get in it, start it and drive it doesn't matter when I get to my destination that I might smell a little. Oh and as an added benefit, you will have zero issues with finding your car in a crowded parking lot..:)

[smukai]

Oh, the daily driver 109.

I did it for years. From 1999 until about 2004. It was a blast, I loved it and I would do it again.

Upsides: I always got where I was going...Colorado weather never got in the way. Everyone knew who I was. I learned to drive far more patiently because the truck is so damn slow.

Downsides: I would often arrive cold/wet/hot/sweaty. I couldn't pick my nose while driving and not drive past someone who knew me. I was a bit limited in where I would go on the weekends as I didn't want to spend hours upon hours driving there.

Was I that limited? No, I drove to Vail from Golden on a few occasions and it only took about 25 minutes extra. I'd drive down to Salida and return to Golden via all dirt/4x4 roads. I had incredible adventures, I got way in over my head and learned how to better judge myself, my truck and the situations that were presented to me. I learned a ton about Land Rover maintenance.

I learned which spare parts to carry and what to leave at home. I carried a small tool kit and believe me, it was a very small tool roll compared to the work bench my brother carries in his diesel Range Rover. Keep in mind, my truck has always been very reliable. No nagging issues. Had a new motor put in within the first year of ownership. Salisbury rear axle. It simply ran.

I do always have a 5 gallon pail of 90wt at my house. My truck marks it's territory like our dog. And really...if it's not leaking, it really is empty.

I'm amazed at how safe it has been. I was rear ended once with no major issues. The lady left a mark on the rubber pad on the rear step and somehow managed to rupture my 30+ year old fuel tank. Rupture as "I could smell fuel" coming from somewhere. A new tank took care of that. We hit an elk on the way to Telluride once. Made a mess of the bull bar up front but the truck ran the rest of the way to Telluride and all the way home. My wife and her friend were quite happy we were in the slow truck rather than in my wife's old Saturn after that.

I've never had a rust issue. The bulkhead has some minor rust but nothing major. I swapped the doortops for aluminum ones as they were pretty bad. The frame is solid and I had a crack welded in the first year that I owned it. Otherwise, it has been solid.

Biggest comfort feature I added was the parabolic suspension. It rides like a dream compared to the bone rattler it was before. My wife was always a little standoffish on riding in my truck (she was the girlfriend at the time) but after I swapped the suspension and added OME all around, she never had a problem getting into the Rover. I would love to add the high back seats but right now the expense can't be justified when I don't drive it nearly enough.

Do it. Enjoy it. Have a blast. We don't run my truck nearly enough anymore. That comes from having two young children and not being able to jump into a noisy, smelly and non-climate controlled vehicle with any regularity. It is my 3 year old daughter's favorite vehicle and we need to start doing adventures again.

All that said, if I had my way, I'd sell my Rover and older Volvo and run a Defender 110 full time. That's if I had my way....

[Sputnic81]

Not sure if he still has it up for sale, but this one looks like a nice truck, just out of my price range.

http://www.landroverexchange.com/listings/

Advertisement to SELL; Product: 1979 SERIES III ; Price: 12500; (Currency: US Dollars);
SIII 109, Stage One for sale
As hard as it is, I have an opportunity to take advantage of, but it requires me to sell my beloved 109. It is VINed as a 1974, however, given it having a V8, I suspect it is really a 1979. Approximately 60K miles-the Km odometer reads 01001. Left-hand drive. I'm asking $12,500, OBO. I have lots of pictures and can send them upon request, they are huge and will probably need to be sent in multiple e-mails. pt@ptschram.com
PT Schram.
Churubusco, Indiana, United States of America - 5 April 2012

[SafeAirOne]

Just one more thing...

Of all the things my wife says I smell like when I get home from driving around in the 109, diesel exhaust and gear oil are not on the list. My driveway smells like gear oil though...

[1971Series88]

Not sure if he still has it up for sale, but this one looks like a nice truck, just out of my price range.

http://www.landroverexchange.com/listings/

Advertisement to SELL; Product: 1979 SERIES III ; Price: 12500; (Currency: US Dollars);
SIII 109, Stage One for sale
As hard as it is, I have an opportunity to take advantage of, but it requires me to sell my beloved 109. It is VINed as a 1974, however, given it having a V8, I suspect it is really a 1979. Approximately 60K miles-the Km odometer reads 01001. Left-hand drive. I'm asking $12,500, OBO. I have lots of pictures and can send them upon request, they are huge and will probably need to be sent in multiple e-mails. pt@ptschram.com
PT Schram.
Churubusco, Indiana, United States of America - 5 April 2012

If you want to buy a trusted 109" that would be the one to get. PT is a rover mechanic, owns a business wrenching on Rovers (to riches) so you couldn't go wrong. Unseen I would trust buying it.