Delco Alternator Conversion

[knac1234]

All,


So I started a similar thread a while back, and now am ready to do the conversion. I want to use the Delco 96si (96 amp) alternator recommended by Mark. It appears that it is already established that a stock SIII wiring harness will have no problem with this setup.


So.....

-Can't seem to find it. What model exactly is it? Or better yet, what car was it fitted to originally so I can reference the regular auto parts retailers' websites?

-Will it come with a pulley to fit a normal fan belt.....or will it come with one for a serpentine belt.....or none of the above?

-Brackets.....I know Ike sells them, but is it possible to mount it properly in the stock SIII bracket setup near the front left bottom of the engine?

-Any other bits I will need? Spacers for the mounting if not using Ike's brackets? Different plug for wiring to the alternator?

Any help appreciated. I will tackle this in a couple of weeks when I take the wing off to put a new manifold gasket on (noticed an exhaust leak last night). And, if steering work is required, bringing the truck to the mechanic with the wing already off will save me a few pennies!

Julian

[bkreutz]

No such animal as a 96 SI, I think you're thinking of a 12 SI, 94 amp, look here (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/Delco_Alternators.html) for some good info. I'd take my old alternator to an alternator shop, buy the alternator from them and have them swap the pulleys over. My experience is that most alternators come without pulleys. Also, if you're interested, here's a link to a site that has info on both the 10 and 12 SI's, and what and when they were OE. http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator1.html

[jac04]

If you get an alternator from NAPA, it usually comes with a pulley. My 10SI did (NAPA 1N-4011A). They also have plenty of 12SI alternators. Just search "Delco 12SI" on their web site.

[SafeAirOne]

Julian,

All the 10si / 12si info can be found on this page here (http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/delcoremy.shtml), including part numbers at the bottom of the page.

This page here (http://ws1.wilsonautoelectric.com/ec03/part.php?part_search=&part=) will give you cross-reference and application info, just plug the AC Delco or Lester # into the search box. Be sure to check that the crossed part number has the right pulley setup.

A 10SI/12SI will not work with the existing bracket (at least not the 574855 cast bracket) without grinding down the area between the alternator mount ears a bit with a grinder, then making a spacer to sandwich between the bracket and the block to get the pulley alignment correct. Oh, and you need to move the stock adjuster (the slider that makes the upper mount) up a few boltholes on the timing cover as well.

As for which alternator to get: Presuming that you use the stock location on the lower left corner of the engine (as you sit in the Rover), a 9:00 or a 12:00 will work. I have a 9:00, but I think a 12:00 would be better, so I wouldn't have to use an inspection mirror or braile to fit the sense and warning lamp wires on their spade connectors.

My full write-up and frustrations with PepBoys alternators can be found here (http://siteground237.com/~gunsandr/showthread.php?950-Everything-I-need-to-know-about-a-10si-Alt-conversion-please!).

The 10SI shown in my pics below:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6197/6159405493_e7d54761a6_z.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6199/6159932526_a21036f339_z.jpg

[1971Series88]

Just get the alternator bracket from Ike at www.pangolin4x4.com - perfect solution and put the 10/12SI on from Delco - from Napa as previous poster suggests....best and easiest solution.

Unlike the one above it puts the alternator in a much better/serviceable spot as an option.

[jac04]

Unlike the one above it puts the alternator in a much better/serviceable spot as an option.

There are pros/cons to both locations. Where Mark put it is a nice spot, other than it possibly getting splashed with water/mud when off-roading.

The Pangolin bracket puts it in a more serviceable spot that is less prone to contamination. However, there are a few trade-offs. The Pangolin brackets put the alternator above the exhaust manifold. It is more prone to pulling in hot air from around the exhaust, thus running hotter. Maybe not a big deal. Also, the Pangolin location results in a smaller belt contact on the pulley. I tried to run it with a single belt, but the belt would always squeal & slip when I blipped the throttle. I'm now back to running the military double belt system without belt slipping issues.

[I Leak Oil]

I moved my alternator up as well. So much simpler to change out (especially when you're in the snow and have to lay on your back while dropping lots of washer and fasteners:mad:). And yes, it stays cleaner. Mine slips just a little bit with the single belt also. Just a fine line between being tight enough and too tight, less forgiving than the bottom mount setup. I made a little metal heat shield that goes between the manifold and the alternator to help with the heat issue....in theory it works....

[knac1234]

All,

Thanks for the comments......will use the list to source the alternator.

I had planned on not using the Ike brackets to keep the location original, but I am not sure that I want to grind down the original brackets (didn't I read somewhere that they are pretty hard to come by and actually worth some $)??

Anyway, I had planned on then getting Ike's brackets.

Now, reading I Leak Oil and Jac's comments, I am concerned about the belt slipping. I will be running it with a single fan belt, as original (maybe a longer one though?), and do not have a double pulley setup nor do I want to install one. Is this really an issue? I do not want to compromise the charging system simply by putting the new brackets in place.

Can anyone elaborate? If the slipping is not an issue, I will get Ike's brackets. Sorry for the line of questioning, but of course I want to make sure I have all relevant parts in hand so that when the wing comes off it is a straightforward installation.

Thanks,
Julian

[jac04]

Well, the only time my belt would slip was when I blipped the throttle. I didn't get any slippage during normal driving.
I think you'll be OK.

[east high]

I've been running Ike's bracket for years with a single belt without issue. No heat problems or squealing belts and I've always had all the juice I've needed to run everything at the same time too.

I give two thumbs up to Ike's bracket.

[I Leak Oil]

Like Jeff, mine is only a little chirp when I blip the throttle. Really isn't an issue for me or the charging system. With that said, i wouldn't hesitate one second to got the pangolin bracket route again.

I'm going to look into using a slightly wider belt if I ever have to replace one.

[cedryck]

Safe air, I like your routing of the main alt. wire, the protective shroud is will placed since it is so close to that hot manifold. Nice work there, cheers.

[knac1234]

Thanks....looks like this will be the route.....94 amp Delco w/Ike's brackets!

I agree.....Mark's routing of the wire is very good due to the hot exhaust manifold....will do the same!

Julian

[east high]

I'm running a Gates belt #7490, FYI, which came recommended from the man himself.

[SafeAirOne]

Safe air, I like your routing of the main alt. wire, the protective shroud is will placed since it is so close to that hot manifold. Nice work there, cheers.

Wish I could take credit for it, but I just used the same routing as the old wiring when I rebuilt the engine harness (2.5 diesel) except I used an adel clamp instead of the metal loop that the factory seems to like so much.

[stonefox]

Julian,
Side note .Ike's bracket doesn't work with the original exhaust manifold .If yours has not been up graded (most have) or maybe its a later truck with the newer style manifold anyway.
Food for thought.

[knac1234]

Julian,
Side note .Ike's bracket doesn't work with the original exhaust manifold .If yours has not been up graded (most have) or maybe its a later truck with the newer style manifold anyway.
Food for thought.

Sean,

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, I have no idea on my manifold. I replaced it when I did some resto work on the truck in November with a new one (that looked identical to the cracked one) from either RN or AB.

I assume it's the stock 72 Series III one, as that is what I ordered, but maybe I should ask Ike when I order from him to be sure.

Julian

[crankin]

Mark and Jeff,
You guys are usually well informed and do your research.
Why the 10-SI instead of the 12-SI? Also, I know that the amps can save some money...what amp did you guys go with...and why?

[jac04]

I bought the 10SI because it was available from NAPA as a brand new (not rebuilt) unit with a lifetime warranty, at a fairly reasonable price. Mine is rated for a nominal 63A output, but the test form that came with it shows peak of 81 amps, with about 65 amps at idle. Since I don't run lots of electronics, it's plenty for my needs.

[SafeAirOne]

Why the 10-SI instead of the 12-SI? Also, I know that the amps can save some money...what amp did you guys go with...and why?

Clint,

At first I installed a 63-amp 10SI because I needed to get to work that day and that alternator was readily available at my local PepBoys. Plus, it was right about the same amp rating as the Lucas A127 it was replacing. After several failures of the 10SI, I decided to A) find a new auto parts store and B) add a couple of bucks and upgrade to the 96-amp 12SI.

My reasoning is that an alternator puts out only the amperage necessary to meet the load, so it's not always putting out 96amps but it has the ability to do it if, say, I were to install an electric winch or a dual battery setup or high-demand accessories. A 63-amp alternator will never have this reserve ability.

[crankin]

Excuse my ignorance on this...I have looked at the normal haunts for information on this but can't seem to find it. What wiring needs to be done with the SIII? I have found a lot for the IIa but not the III.

[printjunky]

Lot of info here:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml

But that might get a little deep, so ...

http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/10si.htm

And of course (someone probably already posted this), TeriAnn:
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/Delco_Alternators.html

On my SIII, The battery lug goes to the battery, the #2 terminal goes to that lug as well, and the #1 terminal goes to my charge light behind the dash (the other side of which gets keyed power). All works fine (though I have to kick it up a little more than I think I should to get the current flowing (and the charge light to go out).

[SafeAirOne]

Nothing needs to be done, really. You connect the brown wire to the threaded terminal, the brown/yellow wire to the charge lamp goes to spade terminal #1 and ideally you should run a wire from spade terminal #2 to the main electrical distribution point on the vehicle, which would be the always-'hot' side of the fuse box, but just running a short jumper from spade terminal #2 to the threaded terminal on the alternator does the job, just a little less accurately:

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/classic-tech/38879d1201630564-internally-regulated-alternator-w-external-regulator-delcosi2wiring.jpg

[knac1234]

All,

So based upon Mark's cheat sheets he posted, it appears I need an alternator for a 85 Buick Riviera 5L to get the 94 amp spec! This is what I found and think I am going to get with Ike's brackets. Great price and limited lifetime warranty (I verified that limited means if you run over it or drop it in a vat of acid, etc....!).

Let me know what you think and I'll get it ordered!

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ULT0/010244/01468.oap?ck=Search_01468_1021891_3126&pt=01468&ppt=C0330

Julian

[I Leak Oil]

There's nothing to think about, do it!

[mongoswede]

At 12.6 volts a 63 amp alternator gives you 794 watts of power to work with. For most stock rovers this is plenty of power. If you are running lots of driving lights or winches or accessories you might need a bigger unit. power = voltage x current. So if you know the power draw on a component simply divide by operating voltage to determine your amperage draw and you can get a ball park idea for the charging demands on your truck. A bigger alternator drawing more current will also rob more power from the engine. If your alternator has a big pulley on it you may be able to put a smaller pulley on to increase the charging capacity. Also if you put in a newer alternator consider making up some heavy duty battery cables which help minimize voltage loss. I like using 2 gage welding cable for the power and ground battery cables.

[knac1234]

All,

Anyone know what fanbelt I need for this alternator? Got the brackets and alt ordered, hoping someone knows the exact size for it on a 72 SIII using Ike's bracket setup?

Thanks,
Julian

[crankin]

All,

Anyone know what fanbelt I need for this alternator? Got the brackets and alt ordered, hoping someone knows the exact size for it on a 72 SIII using Ike's bracket setup?

Thanks,
Julian

Dayco 15405

[jac04]

I used a Dayco 15495. 49.5" long.

Clint - The Dayco 15405 is 40.5" long. I think one of us has the wrong number.

[crankin]

I used a Dayco 15495. 49.5" long.

Clint - The Dayco 15405 is 40.5" long. I think one of us has the wrong number.

It's me...you called me out again. It was from my spec sheet. I have a with Ike's bracket and w/out Ike's bracket using washers. So, Julian, I am trying to mess people up. Go with jac04. In fact, anytime I say something and jac04 weighs in, always defer to him. :thumb-up:

I mean for Pete's sake the man made a tray to catch the oil dripping from the tranny! (and what a big gal she was! Wokka Wokka)

[east high]

I mean for Pete's sake the man made a tray to catch the oil dripping from the tranny!

He should sell these. He'd make a fortune!

[knac1234]

Will do......thanks Clint & Jac04! That was the missing piece!

Julian

[mongoswede]

I used a Dayco 15495. 49.5" long.

Clint - The Dayco 15405 is 40.5" long. I think one of us has the wrong number.

is that linear length or half length? The 40.5" belt looked incredibly short. I need to measure the pulley centers and diameters and figure out the belt from there.

just measured my pulleys using string. 47:5" long. tricky tricky ;)

[crankin]

Jac is the correct number for Ike's adapter.

[cetesse]

Too funny, I just emailed Ike yesterday to ask the same question -- what fan belt to use with his kit. Must be that time of year!

[mongoswede]

This is the front view of Ik'e brackets with the Bosch alternator. The pulleys look to line up and the main difference is the top mount on the bosch is wider...so the tensioner arm needs a different spacing or some sort of adapter.

http://crazyswede.smugmug.com/Trucks/Land-Rover/i-P42DKMs/0/M/2012-05-1917-51-03191-M.jpg

[knac1234]

Looks good! Just curious......any reason you chose the Bosch? I already bought the Delco, but would like to know!

I am working on my conversion right now, but I am going in sequence with some other things as I have the manifold off!

1. Replace steering box; 2. Reinstall manifold as I had an exhaust leak (bad gasket); 3. Mount the new alternator using Ike's brackets.....oh, and then try to reverse bleed my clutch pedal while the wing is off! Where does it end?!

Will post pics when the alternator is finally on.....at this point, I have only painted the brackets, but everything's ready to go!

Julian

[yorker]

Bosch are easy to change regulators on in situ. The Bosch alternator is set up with a nice removeable modular voltage regulator and brush assembly that can be replaced quick. Lots of people who deal with other imports often have a spare Bosch or two laying around too.

http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/electrical/boschaltrepair.htm

[mongoswede]

Pretty much what Yorker said. The earlier units like I am using are super simple to swap out the voltage regulator as it is mounted on the outside. The newer ones requre some disassembly to get to them. I have had a lot of Saabs and I have a few of these units kicking around. It is an 80 amp alternator vs the 65A 10SI....plus it saves me having to buy the Delco unit.

[mongoswede]

wired up the bosch unit and jump started the truck....looked to be charging around 9v.....shut off truck, pulled voltage reg out of alternator, cleaned all contacts and metal surfaces...also exercised brushes....put back in and started truck...charging at 13.4 volts...much better. ;)