Ripped the Band Aid off! Build Thread and Advice Sought.

[PH4]

Last weekend took the bed and seat box off the 1962 109 and this weekend will try and remove the bulkhead wings etc. No turning back now. The chassis is solid so far other than surface rust. I had considered going galvanized but based on the condition of the chassis it may be over kill. Any tips or advice as to what i should do the chassis while the body panels etc go to the painter? How to preserve? I prefer to keep it a rolling chassis if not going to replace with Galvanized chassis. Best regards,6480

[giftshopduane]

Slap a coat of something on it (Rustoleum rust encapsulator etc...) and oil it every fall. Where do you live? Rust belt? Its a lot of effort to go POR 15 at this point or media blast or galv... do you want to turn that corner?

[crankin]

You can never go wrong with galvanizing it. It will last longer than anything you paint on it. However, if you don't want to go through all that labor and time to get its all ready for the dip...POR 15 is your next best protection.

[albersj51]

I'm a big fan of chem stripping and galvanizing. I had all the steel parts (frame, bulkhead, rad panel, etc) galvanized for long-term protection. I don't know where you live, but I am in South Carolina, hardly the rust belt. However, I felt it worth the extra effort and expense to keep everything rust free for a long time.

If you are totally against dipping it, then consider something to get in and clean the inside of the frame rails (these things rust inside out) then spray a protective paint, like MasterSeries coating, POR-15, etc. Eastwood makes a spray with a wand for this purpose, but I can't speak to its effectiveness. Then I would prime the outside with a rust preventative (MasterSeries/POR), then topcoat (eastwood chassis black). To derust the outside, I would use phosphoric acid (Ospho) to turn the iron oxide into iron phosphate (inert). Its not perfect and doesn't penetrate, but, if you knocked all the flaky stuff off first with a wire wheel then go back and use ospho, it should get a good bit of the rust (you can never get it all!).


Also, don't forget to give the bulkhead some rust protection as well. Get inside the doorposts as best you can and thoroughly coat the footwells with something good. No point in going this far and repainting only to get a rust bubble in a couple of years.

[I Leak Oil]

Painting will help a little but honestly these things rot from the inside where moisture and dirt collect. Galvanizing is really to protect the inside more than the outside surfaces which is why it's so effective on rover chassis'.
Paint it and use something like waxoil (or your favorite home made brew) on the inside.

[PH4]

I am in Charleston, South Carolina so rust is a factor. The bulkhead needs work. It is very rusted on the portion above the speedo and below the vent openings. albersj51, where in SC did you get your chassis and other parts dipped and galvanized? Did you have anyone do work on your bulkhead in SC? If you have time, I would appreciate giving you a call to discuss.

[giftshopduane]

From what I understand (again its very little.) in applying POR15 don't you need to have the chassis SUPER clean, then let it rust a little in order for the POR15 to adhere properly? Honestly I have read conflicting opinions on prep and app. I don't get the feeling that this going bare frame and blasted in order to galv or POR15. So wouldn't those be off the table in this case?

So wouldn't a general "industrial" type of a coating ( coat all!!)work best in this scenario? Especially since he's in South Carolina. In a perfect world would we all go Galvanized?

A little help with this one because I am about to do the same thing, and certainly dipping, media stripping and Galv are not on the budget. Good old fashioned paint and Schutz gun bar oil for me... worked fine on my Classic for years and certainly cost less.

[crankin]

It will boils down to what your skill level and money wise comfortable doing. To each his own. If you are going through all this trouble to strip it down and clean it up to paint it...why not dip it and go the glavy way? In addition, the aluminum contacts with galvy will not break down like it does with steal. But its not my truck and I can't force anyone's hand. I just know that 30 years from now, I don't want to do what I did in my 20s all over again in my 60s.

We know that galvanizing will test time and come through beautifully. A good paint job and waxoyl periodically will do the same thing. It will be tricky to get inside the frame and to knock out all the problems there unless you go the galvy way. Lets face it the frame has lasted 35+ years and looks great. Anything you do will protect it that much more.

Aside from that, In S. Pittsburg, TN, there is a place that will dip 100 pounds for $100. and that includes stripping it first...Not a bad price. This was their price 3 years ago when the world was feeling the crunch.

[albersj51]

I am in Charleston, South Carolina so rust is a factor. The bulkhead needs work. It is very rusted on the portion above the speedo and below the vent openings. albersj51, where in SC did you get your chassis and other parts dipped and galvanized? Did you have anyone do work on your bulkhead in SC? If you have time, I would appreciate giving you a call to discuss.

I'm in Greenville and had everything dipped at South Atlantic Galvanizing. I know some of the guys in Charleston and Columbia use a place in Columbia...but I don't remember the name of it. Its a mom-and-pop operation.

As for the bulkhead, I have zero welding/fabbing skills so I bought one from Ike (pangolin 4x4) that had no rust and had never been repaired, same with the chassis. You may want to call Ike and get a quote on the work from him. Shipping to and from Oregon is rather expensive, but he'll do the work and get it dipped for you and ship it back. At least you'll know its dead on as opposed to finding out later the welder didn't line up the door posts right and it off kilter (that was my fear).

Sure, I'll PM you my phone number. I'm more than happy to discuss it.

Jason

[albersj51]

It will boils down to what your skill level and money wise comfortable doing. To each his own. If you are going through all this trouble to strip it down and clean it up to paint it...why not dip it and go the glavy way? In addition, the aluminum contacts with galvy will not break down like it does with steal. But its not my truck and I can't force anyone's hand. I just know that 30 years from now, I don't want to do what I did in my 20s all over again in my 60s.

We know that galvanizing will test time and come through beautifully. A good paint job and waxoyl periodically will do the same thing. It will be tricky to get inside the frame and to knock out all the problems there unless you go the galvy way. Lets face it the frame has lasted 35+ years and looks great. Anything you do will protect it that much more.

Aside from that, In S. Pittsburg, TN, there is a place that will dip 100 pounds for $100. and that includes stripping it first...Not a bad price. This was their price 3 years ago when the world was feeling the crunch.

I agree with Clint. I was thinking the same thing a year ago, "is it really worth the effort and expense to galvanize these things? Its South Carolina, not Maine". When I went through the amount of time it would take to strip everything, knowing i couldn't get inside, where it is most important, it would have taken forever. Also, the price of consumables (wire wheels, flap discs, etc) and primer and paint and waxoyl, etc its not much, if any, more to get it galvanized. I think I spend $400 to galvanize all of my stuff, including some extra stuff. I also had everything chemically stripped to get inside, which was another $300 or so dollars.

[PH4]

The comments here have me leaning more towards Galvy now if i can have it done somewhat locally. I really want to get it back on the road asap and do not look forward to stripping everything off and putting it back but maybe it is the way to go. A photo of it prior to removal of
6481

[yorker]

The comments here have me leaning more towards Galvy now if i can have it done somewhat locally. I really want to get it back on the road asap and do not look forward to stripping everything off and putting it back but maybe it is the way to go. A photo of it prior to removal of


If I lived where you do nd it looked as good as that I wouldn't bother doing the galvanizing. Paint it with something good like SEM Rustshield, or Corroless then spray homemade rust treatment once a year in August. Once you pull it all apart to galvanize it your downtime will go UP at an exponential rate, one thing leads to another and next thing you know you are 2 years into a frame up rebuild.


"Well since I have the engine out I might as well do the clutch, and since I am doing that I might as well rebuild the head, and the transmission, gee i really should get a new gas tank, and springs, and that radiator loos kind of ratty..."

[I Leak Oil]

"Well since I have the engine out I might as well do the clutch, and since I am doing that I might as well rebuild the head, and the transmission, gee i really should get a new gas tank, and springs, and that radiator loos kind of ratty..."

He he he....ask Stonefox how that went for him! We all remember the clutch replacement incident.

[o2batsea]

You probably won't want to hear this, but if you are going to galvanize the chassis, you will be further ahead of the game by buying a new galvanized chassis instead, all things considered.

While painting is a viable option, ultimately the chassis will rust and need to be replaced. Like the old commercial said, you can pay now or pay later. Later, however, you may no longer be the owner...so there you go.

[PH4]

The one great thing is I have a brand new 109 tub NOS still in the original wooden packing crate painted bronze green with all the fitments. Hence the reason I am breaking it down to restore. All still in wrap.

[SafeAirOne]

The one great thing is I have a brand new 109 tub NOS still in the original wooden packing crate painted bronze green with all the fitments. Hence the reason I am breaking it down to restore. All still in wrap.

Hmm. Your existing tub is looking pretty nice in that pic.

[stonefox]

He he he....ask Stonefox how that went for him! We all remember the clutch replacement incident.
What.....? All I did was read the manual.It said in order to replace the clutch you need to take every nut and bolt off the truck, replace them and spend wayyy more money than you actually tell your wife you did. I was just following the manual!!!!

[PH4]

Hmm. Your existing tub is looking pretty nice in that pic.

It is in good condition. The reason I am replacing is that the 109 was originally a hardtop and the PO cut the bulkhead behind the front seats to add a third fuel tank. I sold the full length hard top and purchased a pick-up top. The bed is fine for full length hard top or canvas top or no top at all. It is for sale I just have not listed yet. I may have an original tail gate to go with it.

[Revtor]

if youre gonna be launching boats then galvanizing would not be a waste of time or money.

Id sell the NOS tub to pay for the galvanizing.

[PH4]

if youre gonna be launching boats then galvanizing would not be a waste of time or money.

Id sell the NOS tub to pay for the galvanizing.

That was one of only a few times I launched a boat with it. I always pressure wash and spray with waxoxyl after I go on muddy roads or launch a boat.

[PH4]

Any secrets or tips for getting the front fenders and wheel wells off? Bulkhead off?

[l.a. rover]

well ph4.... i ripped the "band aid" too this week end.... am replacing the rear cross member due to rust.... nice 109 u gots!

[PH4]

well ph4.... i ripped the "band aid" too this week end.... am replacing the rear cross member due to rust.... nice 109 u gots!

Good luck. I am going to try and remove the bulkhead tomorrow.

[o2batsea]

Any secrets or tips for getting the front fenders and wheel wells off? Bulkhead off?

Yah, undo all the nut plates, nuts and bolts. They come right off after that. You will learn new body positions that you weren't aware that you are capable of, especially when getting after the mud shield upper fixings.
If you are working alone, a pair of vise grips on the other side is the best approach to nuts that you can't reach around for. Don't worry about snapping off anything, it is all still available.

[PH4]

Pressure washed and went all over it with a hammer and screw driver. Only surface rust except where the rear portion of the area where the rear shock absorber attaches and very little there. I was able to get the flakes off with hammer and chisel and it was only minor on the top. Please see photos below and would like to hear thoughts and comment from the forum. Best regards,

64906491649264936494

[bkreutz]

One of the main reasons these frames rust from the inside out is that the outside, being more exposed to the air, dries quicker than the inside. Since these frames are mostly sealed it's hard to tell, maybe you could borrow a borescope and look inside.

[73series88]

looks great
aaron

[PH4]

Progress today. The Bulkhead was a tough one. I still have not decided on the whether to replace the chassis. Part of me thinks to do so since everything is apart, however, the original chassis seems to be in very good condition at least on the outside. Miles to go before I sleep.
65026503650465056506

[PH4]

Best use for the 109 Tub you just removed from your Series. Part of "The Fort". 6507

[o2batsea]

Gad, those wings have me drooling even with the effed up looking diamond tread stuff on them. You just cannot get them any where.

Just buy a new galvanized chassis. Fooling with the old one, no matter what you do to it, you'll always wonder if it is bad inside.
I went with new on mine for this exact reason. Originality is of absolutely no consequence as far as value is concerned.

[PH4]

Gad, those wings have me drooling even with the effed up looking diamond tread stuff on them. You just cannot get them any where.

Just buy a new galvanized chassis. Fooling with the old one, no matter what you do to it, you'll always wonder if it is bad inside.
I went with new on mine for this exact reason. Originality is of absolutely no consequence as far as value is concerned.

I agree about the diamond tread. PO did it. I am trying to figure out the best way to get rid of it and replace. Any suggestions?

[crankin]

Is it not just laying on top of the wing and riveted or screwed down?

[PH4]

Is it not just laying on top of the wing and riveted or screwed down?

You are right. It is riveted down but I do not believe what is underneath is in good condition. Maybe if I took the tread plates and had aluminum plates the same guage cut out using the diamond plate as a template. Any thoughts or advice?

[o2batsea]

I'd take the tread panels off and see what you got. way easier to fill a few rivet holes with JB Weld than finding another wing.
To fill the holes:
use a countersink to SLIGHTLY chamfer the outside of the hole. Sand to bare metal both sides. Apply clear packing tape outside over the hole. Now, working from inside apply the JB weld so it fills the hole and leave a bit proud and wide so that there is some bit of "backing" for the epoxy. After it kicks, pull off the tape. You should have a very smooth fill that needs very little finish sanding.

For large areas, get the powdered aluminum filler from Jamestown Distributors and mix it with West System resin.

[Alaskan Rover]

Replace the chassis??? Are you nuts?

One replaces the chassis when tje original is in fundememtally bad shape...everything in your photos show a chassis that is in good shape. In fact there are probably MANY Series owners here who WISH their chassis was in that shape!!

A 'soft' chassis and you'll know it...your screwdriver will go RIGHT through it. Doesn't look like that to me.

Soft spots at tbe rear spring monts are VERY common, RN sells new spring hanger chassis members that can be welded in. I used two on my rover and they're still strong now.

Wire brush the frame.
, then use Extend, then after ALL the rust is off, coat with US military grade red two-part EPOXY PRIMER.

When I was stripping the paint off my door hinges and rear tire carrier, I used a chemical stripper..that strpper stripped the paint off easily, but didn't do anything to the primer at all. I was using military-only 2-part epoxy primer...strongest, most rugged primer out there!

[o2batsea]

Replacement of the chassis far more cost effective than repair/refurb. Not nuts at all.

[yorker]

Replacement of the chassis far more cost effective than repair/refurb. Not nuts at all.

Cost effective IF IT REALLY NEEDS IT. In the last 15 years I've seen at least 5 perfectly good chassis cut up and scrapped by different people because they felt they needed a galvanized chassis. It has gotten to the point where a new galvanized chassis is de rigueur. Sure it is nice to have but come on, not every LR automatically needs a brand new chassis.

[thixon]

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I just couldn't stand it. I'm posting on the Rovers North board again after swearing I'd never come back.

Yorker, I just couldn't let you hang.

To everyone who has argued to the contrary on this thread, Yorker is right:

GALVANIZING A CHASSIS THAT'S IN GOOD CONDITION IS NOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN BUYING A NEW GALVANIZED CHASSIS!

[thixon]

Hell,

I go even further. Why not right?

I'll wager that I could take a chassis that needed some repair work, buy a cheap wire welder, the metal needed for repair, do the work, have it dipped when I'm done, and still come out cheaper than buying a brand new galvy chassis.

[jopa]

On my project 109...I had to source a frame. Good used frame was $300. Needed some minor repairs- and I made some mods for power steering and engine conversion...$100. Sand blasting everything- chassis, bulkhead, door frames (yes I peeled the skins from the doors), radiator panel, Rims, etc. came to $150. Hot dipping galvanizing- totat was $400...so add it all up- $950 and I had a galv frame set up for power steering, galv bulkhead, galv door and hood frames, regalv cappings, galv radiator panel, etc. I actually did several vehicles worth of cappings and misc items that I sold on ebay and to friends that paid for the galvanizing. $950 is less then one third of what a new frame costs. It takes a little longer then simply buying a new frame and begining to reassemble...however no matter which way one goes it all has to come apart anyhow. Plan it out and the down time is not much different. I rebuilt my axles while the chassis was being dipped- so when I got it back I had a roller in a few days.
Dipping a used repaired chassis is no more risky then Marsland/Designa/Richards dipping a newly assembled one...make sure there are no trapped air spaces/that the liquid molten zinc can enter and leave all cavities. You will have a little work cleaning it up afterwards- retaping holes, clean up slag/drips, but no big deal. It gives you peace of mind for longterm use...its not going to rot out from under you any time soon. John

[o2batsea]

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I just couldn't stand it. I'm posting on the Rovers North board again after swearing I'd never come back.

Yorker, I just couldn't let you hang.

To everyone who has argued to the contrary on this thread, Yorker is right:

GALVANIZING A CHASSIS THAT'S IN GOOD CONDITION IS NOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN BUYING A NEW GALVANIZED CHASSIS!

Well, maybe. If you have the tools, the skills to use them, the time to do the work, the space to do the work, tolerant wives, girlfriends and neighbors, no kids, and the means or physical ability to hump around a chassis to the galvanizer's assuming there is one near by. Not everyone is like you in that regard. There is no question that it is easier to just have it delivered all done, ready to bolt up. Also there is no question whether you will have rot you didn't see or treat inside the frame rail. Not having to deal with refurbishing the chassis will always leapfrog the project ahead. In the grand scheme of things that may easily worth the three large for the chassis. It's called "spending wisely"
You are mistakenly not including the expense of your own time and effort, which is a substantial amount. If it takes you twenty hours of work to get the chassis done and you consider your time at a very conservative $40 an hour, plus the supplies, wear and tear on tools and other consumables...you're pretty much there.
What if you had spent all that chassis time on other areas that show more like the interior or painting the body?
Don't attack with broad statements that only apply to your own particular situation. If spending money on a new chassis makes sense for another person they should not be ridiculed or lambasted for that decision nor should any of us who offer that option as a suggestion.

[thixon]

And now I remember why I stopped posting here.

o2batsea,

1) two people can move a chassis.
2) its cheap to rent a Uhaul.
3)If he can't weld, professional welders with portable setups will actually go to him. Really, I'm not joking.
4)Everything I just mentioned above will cost a lot less than buying a new galvy chassis.
5)I have a new galvy chassis, so stop trying to make it seem as if I'm bashing you for buying your new galvy chassis.
6)A monkey can figure out if a frame is bad.
7)Trying to account for his labor hours is useless in this situation. Its a hobby, don't ruin it for us by trying to apply fiance/accounting to the equation.
8)Sweat equity = savings/money in his pocket.
9)You have no idea what the definition of the word "wisely" is. (Notice I removed the "spending" from the phrase)
10)I included 9) just to get a rise out of you.
11)He'd need money to spend on "other areas that show more like the interior and painting the body." Not dropping 3G's on a frame he doesn't need would save him a ton of cash to put into a fore mentioned "other areas." Again, sweat equity = $. He can save money if he fixes/galvanizes the frame he has.
12)I'll lambaste who I please, when I please.
13)Your JB coldweld repair advice is unsound
14)Posting on web boards is supposed to be fun. If someone doesn't agree with you, don't get angry or frustrated.

[albersj51]

Travis is dead-on here!

My frame had been repaired several times and needed more. In my opinion, it was more than I wanted to put into it. So, I bought I rust free, repair free chassis from Ike that required a little work (cutting off random things the PO welded on). Ike had it chem stripped and shipped it to me. Including shipping, the frame, chem stripping and galvanizing I came out about $1500 cheaper than a new chassis...so I used that towards a rust free/repair free bulkhead from Ike, which was also chem stripped and galvanized.

If you want to buy a new one, go for it; there's nothing wrong with doing that. However, in this particular instance, John's chassis is solid and requires little or no work. What would be the logic in scrapping it and spending $3K on a new one?


I can't believe I'm doing this, but I just couldn't stand it. I'm posting on the Rovers North board again after swearing I'd never come back.

Yorker, I just couldn't let you hang.

To everyone who has argued to the contrary on this thread, Yorker is right:

GALVANIZING A CHASSIS THAT'S IN GOOD CONDITION IS NOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN BUYING A NEW GALVANIZED CHASSIS!

[stonefox]

:popcorn: :gulp:
You don't often get to hear lambaste used in a sentence. :cool:

[yorker]

A good friend of mine put it well "This whole attitude whereby a Series MUST have a galvanized frame is silly. Its also a sign of the modern disposable society. Why fix it when you can just bolt a new bit on? I view it as rather lazy."

If you have half a brain you can tell if a chassis is good or not with some reasonable inspection. Its not rocket science but it requires some thought and common sense.
The frames I mentioned I've seen scrapped were generally in good solid shape outside and the owners, once they cut them apart realized how well preserved they were inside. A good inspection and perhaps some minimal repairs would have easily made them as good as new. But this obsession with galvanized frames apparently compelled them to junk a perfectly good chassis and plunk down big bucks for a new shiny one. Frankly someone who junks a perfectly good chassis does deserve to be ridiculed or lambasted for that decision. Sure it takes time, skill, and thought to actually assess, refurbish, and restore what you have. Any damn fool can open a checkbook order a bunch of brand new parts and assemble them.

[I Leak Oil]

:popcorn: :gulp:
You don't often get to hear lambaste used in a sentence. :cool:

mmmm.....I like basted lamb.....

[albersj51]

... Any damn fool can open a checkbook order a bunch of brand new parts and assemble them.

Hey! I resemble that remark! :)

[stonefox]

I thought this was a perfect opportunity to plug the very solid 109 5 door frame I have sitting in my yard for sale.Its not perfect but it sure has a lot of good miles left in ...... I know shameless ... completely shameless..;)

[o2batsea]

Do I care?

[PH4]

Pressure washed the bulkhead today. Not too awful/bad. Also checked the wings under the tread plate. Couple of holes but think they will be fixable to what i want in the wings. The second photo is the top of the dash below the vent openings.
65236524652565266527

[PH4]

Was a FFR apparently in original skin.
65296530

[I Leak Oil]

That's a hideous sight! You should let me take it off your hands so you are no longer burdened with it.:)


Pressure washed the bulkhead today. Not too awful/bad.
65236524652565266527

[PH4]

That's a hideous sight! You should let me take it off your hands so you are no longer burdened with it.:)

I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised with the relative good shape that it was in after removal. I have waxoxlyed my Rovers every year so I bet that has made a big difference. By the way, anyone know a company that does Chem stripping in the Charleston, SC area?

[LH Drive]

My rover has never seen salt as its originally a south west rover. I dont' think my chassis was going to break apart in the next 8-10 years even if I did nothing to it and as long as I keep it of the winter salted roads. Have a similar described chassis as yours and was going the hot dipped route but after adding up the total cost, its not far off from buying a new galvi one if I farm out all the labor.
Had to cut off the front 3 inches of the front horns where there was rot. That opened up the frame and to my suprise I could see nice solid metal inside the chassis with a flash light. After the metal repair I decided to go the DIY route instead and use POR15. Wirewheeled the surface rust and used chem stripper on the original chassis paint. After I had it all stripped down to bare steel it was degreased twice, dried, zinc metal prepped and let it dry a couple days. Then brushed on 2 coats of the POR15 starting with one thin first coat as instructed. It was a labor of love and in just a few days I was done. Just finished it yesterday
The inside of the chassis will get 4 rattle cans of Waxoyl treatment.
What ever you decide to do i'm sure you'll be happy with. Chris

[madp]

By the way, anyone know a company that does Chem stripping in the Charleston, SC area?

I came across this place after I hand stripped my chassis. I have not used them but their sign says they do chemical stripping.

American Stripping Co.
3824 South Okatie Highway
Hardeeville, SC 29927
(843) 784-2932

[PH4]

My rover has never seen salt as its originally a south west rover. I dont' think my chassis was going to break apart in the next 8-10 years even if I did nothing to it and as long as I keep it of the winter salted roads. Have a similar described chassis as yours and was going the hot dipped route but after adding up the total cost, its not far off from buying a new galvi one if I farm out all the labor.
Had to cut off the front 3 inches of the front horns where there was rot. That opened up the frame and to my supprise I could see nice solid metal inside the chassis with a flash light. After the metal repair I decided to go the DIY route instead and use POR15. Wirewheeled the surface rust and used chem stripper on the original chassis paint. After I had it all stripped down to bare steel it was degreased twice, dried, zinc metal prepped and let it dry a couple days. Then brushed on 2 coats of the POR15 starting with one thin first coat as instructed. It was a labor of love and in just a few days I was done. Just finished it yesterday
The inside of the chassis will get 4 rattle cans of Waxoyl treatment.
What ever you decide to do i'm sure you'll be happy with. Chris

After going over it again last weekend, I do not believe the chassis requires to be galvanized and would be fine using POR 15 or regular paint, however, the Rover will be used mainly in the Fall and Winter on often very muddy logging roads and the extra piece of mind I should get with a galvanized chassis may be worth it. I realize that Galvanized chassis will rust and needs to be hosed off but it will be more robust than regular chassis. I have had the Rover for 17 years on two continents so I doubt I will sell it anytime soon plus I really do not want to think about doing this again in the next 15 years. But it is tempting to leave as is and not remove engine/suspension etc. By the way any tips/tricks for removing bushings in chassis? Sounds horrible from the little bit I have heard about it.

[o2batsea]

If you can get the shackle bolt out, the rest is easy. Use a propane/mapp torch and point it thru the bushing sleeve. In no time the rubber will soften and you can push the inner sleeve out with a big screwdriver. If you continue to hold the flame to it, the rubber will burn away and then you can chisel out the outer sleeve. Alternately you can take a sawzall to the outer sleeve with a metal blade and cut just thru the shell. then it will tap out with the above mentioned big screwdriver.
The burning method requires the least effort but is awfully smelly.

[PH4]

Anyone have a suggestion for replacement of all the nuts and bolts? Instead of me going back and forth to the hardware store which does not have good fastners is there a kit someone sells? A list of sizes so I can purchase prior? Should I use all galvanized fastners? These may be ignorant questions but on projects in the past I have spent a lot of time going back and forth to the hardware store and they never have the correct fastners. Advice appreciated.

[Jim-ME]

I do the same thing as far as running back and forth to the hardware store so I'm not going to be much help with bolt sizes. I have replaced every bolt I've taken out with SS and the more I read it looks like I'm creating more problems than I solve. I'm going on advise from a friend in the Rover business and I'm going back to galvanized fasteners with SS nuts. The bolts may rust but I should be able to get the nuts off and hopefully my aluminum won't be as adversely affected.
Jim

[albersj51]

I am using grade 8 anodized bolts everywhere I can. I'd buy packages from mcmaster, www.mcmaster.com, in 5/16" and 1/4", wrench size 1/2" and 7/16" Those two size cover most things. I'd get various lengths from 1/2" to 2" long. You'll have left overs, but still cheaper and more efficient than going to the hardware store. Probably need the 1-1 1/2" the most. Quantity is hard to say. You'll order a few hundred. As for thread count, I think i'm using mostly course.

[PH4]

I am using grade 8 anodized bolts everywhere I can. I'd buy packages from mcmaster, www.mcmaster.com, in 5/16" and 1/4", wrench size 1/2" and 7/16" Those two size cover most things. I'd get various lengths from 1/2" to 2" long. You'll have left overs, but still cheaper and more efficient than going to the hardware store. Probably need the 1-1 1/2" the most. Quantity is hard to say. You'll order a few hundred. As for thread count, I think i'm using mostly course.

Thank you Albersj51. I believe MercedesRover just replaced all nuts and bolts on his 109. MercedesRover, do you recall about how many nuts bolts you used?

[stonefox]

So, I think grade 8 are good for some apps. like bulkhead to frame ,spring hangers , but in general grade 5 would suffice.Although I dig the yellow coating I think 8"s are over kill for seat box and sheet metal to sheet metal apps . Correct me if I'm wrong but very few originals were 8's.
I think never seizing it well and washing your truck regularly goes a long way for corrosion resistance. Also using bolts that are not too much longer than the nut make for a much easier nut removal in the future.

[gudjeon]

I know a lot of places only stock stuff in Grade 8 as it is virtually the same price as stuff in Grade 5. I like to use fine thread with flat and lock washer against the nut. It is like the original and doesn't come loose with vibration.

[PH4]

Will grade 8 or other grade anodized fastners cause any issues with the aluminum bits? I use copious amounts of the copper anti-seize on the threads.

[gudjeon]

Probably no more than other stuff. The zinc plated doesn't last that long out in the elements. For body tub, etc, I used galvanized flat washers for my nuts/bolts. I got them from the hardware store. they are used for constructing docks with pressure treated wood. They are not a great quality, but they do not contribute to holding strength. Never seize is excellent on everything, but head bolts. I used to use this in a machine shop where I used to work. Its the only thing that made parts serviceable after a few years in underground hard rock mines.

[albersj51]

Totally agree...grade 8 is overkill and most of the bolts were originally less than grade 5, I'm guessing. The price difference per bolt is small, but it adds up quick! Also, the chromium/zinc coating (yellow), lasts longer than zinc plating, but not as long as galvanizing.

If you go with galvanized, try tractor supply. The one here in greenville has them and sells them by the pound.



So, I think grade 8 are good for some apps. like bulkhead to frame ,spring hangers , but in general grade 5 would suffice.Although I dig the yellow coating I think 8"s are over kill for seat box and sheet metal to sheet metal apps . Correct me if I'm wrong but very few originals were 8's.
I think never seizing it well and washing your truck regularly goes a long way for corrosion resistance. Also using bolts that are not too much longer than the nut make for a much easier nut removal in the future.

[PH4]

What are pros and cons of going with fine thread over regular thead?

[crankin]

When replaced my bolts, I went with Grade 8. I used more 7/16th than 1/2, I think it was close to about a 75-100 on the 7/16 and maybe about 50 on the 1/2.

You can get a grade 8 in a plain finish, which is black. But the gold (zinc plated) will resist rust a little more. Yes, you could go with a grade 5 or 3 if you want. But, if you are going through all this trouble...put a little more money ($45-$60 more) and go overboard.

[JimCT]

Copper is a big no no with aluminum, eats it for breakfast. Far apart on the galvanic scale.



Will grade 8 or other grade anodized fastners cause any issues with the aluminum bits? I use copious amounts of the copper anti-seize on the threads.

[PH4]

Wow. That's the first time I have ever heard that copper ant-seize will harm the aluminum. Great stuff though. Is there an alternative that works well?

[stomper]

Yes, it is the silver colored antiseize. it has aluminum in it.

[gudjeon]

You can get silvery nickel High heat never seize, coppery greasy type never seize, and cheap graphite based stuff from Loctite and permatex. It all works better than using nothing. For the money, I go with the graphite based stuff for all body/chassis stuff. For high heat, the copper. You can spend the extra bucks if you want if you think think things are hot enough to use nickel. I have never seeen anything steel/copper rot off due to copper never seize being used on threads.

[JimCT]

Graphite is as bad or worse than copper. Just look at the galvanic scale to see what is safe and works. Aluminum is pretty much at the bottom of the list.



You can get silvery nickel High heat never seize, coppery greasy type never seize, and cheap graphite based stuff from Loctite and permatex. It all works better than using nothing. For the money, I go with the graphite based stuff for all body/chassis stuff. For high heat, the copper. You can spend the extra bucks if you want if you think think things are hot enough to use nickel. I have never seeen anything steel/copper rot off due to copper never seize being used on threads.

[gudjeon]

Someone has not told my Landrover about this scale, as it has been on threads for many years and hasn't rotted anything off. This, and the cap full of powdered graphite in all the gearcases that make things run quieter. That, and its GL-5. And its a series1. sometimes life is not worth splitting hairs.

[PH4]

Accomplished a good bit this weekend and will post photos as soon as I can fix issue with photos. This week the engine and transmission will be removed together. I am going to Harbor Freight to get a 1 ton shop crane for the job. What is the best way to hook crane to engine and trans and what did you use to do so?

Do/should I need to remove steering components before engine? Any major issues I should watch out for problems etc. the only thing left on chassis at this point is engine, trans, springs, axles, wheels, steering components.

[J!m]

If the body is out of your way, run a chain around the back of the t-case and bolt to the front of the engine (or use the lifting point if it is still there).

You may have to experiment with a rear lifting point to get it to 'balance' well (not roll side to side), and you will need to secure the chain on the lift so it does not want to slide in the lifting hook. With a chain, you can usually get away with a loop at the lifting hook to bind it well enough to keep it from slipping here (a bolt through the chain is another method if the bolt is strong enough).

[PH4]

What about the below two items instead of a chain? The lifting brackets are still on the engine.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-webbing-sling-44847.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-lifting-sling-34708.html

[J!m]

Those could work just fine too.

[yorker]

What are pros and cons of going with fine thread over regular thead?


Fine threads have less tendency to loosen under vibration due to their having a smaller helix angle than coarse threads. http://www.katonet.com/techinfo/articles/coarse_vs_fine.html

I've seen lock-tite work far better than antiseize for bolts that might need to be taken apart again. It seems counterintuitive I know but... Obviously it isn't something you are going to use on wheel studs but other things like sill panels etc. it works well.

[PH4]

Removed the diamond tread from the top of the wing and below photo shows what i have to work with on the wing-top. I understand good wing-tops are scarce. Maybe take the diamond tread and use as a pattern to cut some birmabright and rivet that back on top? Suggestions? Front and side of wing are in good shape.
6638

Also able to take off with a chisel the piece of aluminum the PO had placed over the rear of the tailgate. Looks like I may need to do some repairs and replace the canvas hook in the middle or find a replacement tailgate.
6639

Removed exhaust and shocks. This weekend will remove springs engine and steering and, hopefully, everything else remaining on chassis.
6640

[stomper]

That wing top doesn't look too bad. You have a hole for the wing mounted mirrors, which many people just plug with a rubber grommet/plug. It had bonnet tie down clips at one point, you could fit new ones, and the other little holes could be welded and ground down, or I saw someone use JB Weld to fill them and smooth them up. Add a fresh coat of paint, and Bob's your Uncle!

[PH4]

Unfortunately hit my limit on attachments so had to remove earlier photos in this thread.

Some progress today. Motor and transmission out. I would not have wanted to do this solo. There were three of us which made lifting and moving the engine much easier.

6665

The bane of my existence. Still not out. Maybe next week. Was very surprised. Did not budge an inch. Only thing coming close to as difficult was the top bolts on the spring shackles.

6666

Suspension other than bushings in frame and drive train off. Steering off other than relay.

66676668

Ready to go to be galvanized once the steering relay and bushing are removed let's hope.
6670

6673

I have to say right before we hoisted the engine I had a brief moment of let's just stop here and paint the chassis.

Anything I need to do to the engine while it is stored? Still full of oil in the engine and gas in the fuel pump bowl.

[albersj51]

The engine will probably be fine...you read about people starting these things after sitting for 20 years. But, may not be a bad idea to put a cap full of marvel mystery oil in each cylinder. I know some folks do this after its been sitting a while.

[PH4]

I also need to thank THIXON for stopping by last weekend and giving me much sage advice. Thank you. Unfortunately, I did not time it where he was there when we attempted to remove the !@#$% steering relay and spring bushing.

[greenmeanie]

I also need to thank THIXON for stopping by last weekend and giving me much sage advice. Thank you. Unfortunately, I did not time it where he was there when we attempted to remove the !@#$% steering relay and spring bushing.

Ah but that is the sign of a truly sage Rover owner. He obeyed rule #1 of the experienced owners guide which is make damn sure you are not around when someone wants you to help them remove the steering relay and suspension bushings. Everyone has to go through that right of passage by themselves.

[PH4]

It is killing me to have this under the house in a crate that has not been opened since it was packed in the 60's. Twice I have come very close to pulling out the crowbar and opening this but realize it is probably best to wait until right before I put it on the Rover.
667666776678

[4flattires]

Oh....go ahead, bust into that birthday present. It might be a good idea to make sure measurements, fittings, and whatnot are all in order so you dont get a last minute surprise during install. Its no fun to have to order extra parts and wait for them to arrive.

Don't ask me how I know this :thumb-up:

[Boston]

Don't touch it until ready to use it.

[cedryck]

Engine will be fine, we started an engine (gas) sat for 23 years, with fresh fuel, found good compression, varooommm.

[PH4]

The steering relay wins again today. Not for all we threw at it would it budge an inch. What a PITA! We did get the two front spring bushings out.

[PH4]

The steering relay wins again today. Not for all we threw at it would it budge an inch. What a PITA! We did get the two front spring bushings out.

[albersj51]

Sounds like a good time for a power steering conversion! :)

[PH4]

Any suggestions for what type black paint to use on the axles, diffs, prop shaft etc? I would prefer to brush on instead of spray. Should I wire wheel them first or just paint over what is already there? Best regards,

[albersj51]

I would wire wheel them clean first, otherwise any rust will spread under the paint. A lot of people use Eastwood Chassis black for their axles and such, which looks awesome! However, I went with spray on rustoleum "professional".

[yorker]

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/SEM-Products-Inc/Product-Line/SEM-Products-Rust-Shield/?autoview=SKU