what were they thinking?

[Alaskan Rover]

EDIt : looks like I have more than a few typos to change...but can't put them to rights until I get back to a REAl keyboard.

Not bad for typing 'blind, though...on a 3.5 " touchscreen !!


ok...here are a few questions pertaining to our esteemed and venerable Series and xdefender vehicles. Sorry if there are a few typos, but i am writing this 'blind' as it were from a too small smartphone touchscreen....something FAR more annoying than ANY greasy work on a Series!


#1
why didn't rover put in 6 or 7 digit odometers? they must have realized that old rovers would eventually see numbers, like mine, in the HUNDRERS of thousands of miles, with some in the millions.

#2
Why did they not go ahead and put rubber or plastic spacers between All places where the aluminum touches steel?

#3
Since a polished paint-free rover looks so cool, why did they not go ahead and have paint-free as a option from the factory? A decade of previous use of the exact same Birmabright as skin on many different commercial planes had already shown that not only does it not need paint, but in fact looks good polished?

#4
Why in the world did they EVER do away with the sliding windows and the two-part, iconic windscreen? the sliding windows are handy as all get out...especially when offroding in technically difficult terrain. I could slide open a window and close it again before a Defender even has their window 1/3 way down. great for inspecting rocks etc beneath the vehicle . An old-fashioned turning vent would have been great as well, but maybe negated by the forward bulkhead vents.

Not long ago, I put a rock through my windshield...but since it was a divided windshield, I simply exchanged the broken drivers windshield with the unbroken passenger windshield. When I finally got back to the shop, I only had to replace one side.

they did away with this great feature with the Defender....Why?

#5
they also did away with nearly all the galvanizing of steel on the Defender...the only steel galvanized on Defenders is the front bumper!! Why? A painted steel section is not as rust-free as a galvanized section. I've seen many Defenders in Europe with rusted painted steel body end cappings. this was a nod to cost-cutting (as were many other changes from the great Series and Stage One vehicles ) that NEVER should have happened to Rover's primary icon.

#6
About galvanizing....why did they not just galvanize the entire frame At the factory...and put proper drainage in the frame? the Series/Defender box ladder frame is amongst the very strongest frames in the wolrd...but unprotected with galvanizing, they soon went 'wonkey' in half the time that non-boxed frames did. Didn't Rover realize that many of their vehicles would be used in salty enviroments...either by way of salt on the winter roads or salt in the coastal air?

Many owners would have been glAD to pay an additional premium when brand new for an already hot-dipped galvanized frame.

----

Now I know a potential reasoning may gave been ''Designed Obsolescence''...the bean counters wouldn't like the thought of a vehicle that lasted 75 years or more...and who would exfhange their rover for a new one if they literally lasted forever? they'd just rebuild or replace the drivetrain as needed and continue in the very same chassis/body!!!

hut wasn't that longevity the eventual INtENt of the Wilkes brothers...once they realized what an ingenious and long-lasting their design was? So they should gave in the least given it anti-bimetallic reaction spacers and a galvanized frame to match their galvanized bumpers, cast iron hinges and galvanized windshield frame and end-cappings.

Or DID they, in fact, have somewhat of a 'Designed Obsolescence' idea all along. Just less obsolescence than the other cehicles..enough longevity to keep the customers and their families coming back generation after generation...but NOt enough to have their customers drive a single old land Rover for their whole lives wnd in the long-run spend literally tens of thousands of dollars (outside the coffers of Rover Corporation) to keep their vehifles runniny into the recades and decades.

little did they know!!!

[mearstrae]

#7. Why is the very wire they use crap?
#8. Why are the plastics used crap?
#9. Why is the whole electrical system crap?
#10. Why are problems called "Character"? [And laughed about, and not called niggling troubles?]
#11. Why in the world do we spend mountains of money on these things? [If our everyday cars acted like these, we'd burn them to the ground in a fit of passion...]

'95 R.R.C. Lwb
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[ThePhotographer]

#12. Why don't they bring the Defender to the US?
#13. Why don't they offer any of their amazing diesel engines in the US?
#14. Why did they sell the Freelander?

[disco2hse]

Most are easily answered: British Leyland.

One of the worst con jobs of all time.

[crankin]

15. Why in the world did the put the timing marks on the driver side front but the distributor on the passenger side back.

[yorker]

Most are easily answered: British Leyland.


THIS or mostly this. And the fact that Land Rover usually thought their fiercest competition was Land Rover of 5 years ago, new vehicle sales were always competing against their used trucks. What good to them is a vehicle you buy once and keep for 40 years? Its like the Swing-A-Way can opener, I bought one 15 years ago and it gets used nearly every day and still works great, I have no reason to ever buy another one. So what happened to them? They sold out to the Chinese because they need to make more profit per unit.

Polished alloy looks good but it doesn't take long for salt to raise hell with it. Corrosion is the biggest killer of airframes out there. Add salt and it just gets silly the amount of fancy chemicals and treatments and preventative maintenenace they throw at a naval aircraft. Now add a steel bulkhead to the mix...

Back when these vehicles were made most people didn't drive 100,000 miles. It was a BIG deal if you had a vehicle that had gone that far. I've owned quite a few Series Land Rovers and they all were bought 25-30 years old and with ~55-80k on them they all also had junk frames and HAD had junk frames for 10-15 years before I bought them. I honestly never seen a series Land Rover in its first life with >100k on it. Sure there are a few out there but most that have exceeded that have had extensive rebuilds somewhere along the line or are owned by rabid enthusiasts- not at all representative of your average original owner.

One piece windscreen is fine, if it brakes you are still only replacing one piece of glass. They made it taller too so it is a little better to see out of. Why did they make the original one so short that you have to scrunch down to the steering wheel to see any traffic lights? Yeah they probably were all street side traffic lights back then...

Roll up windows are fine especially if the drive ratio is good. The sliding windows suck to drive with, you can't really put your arm on the window sill and the old window tracks will give you tetanus. You can't crack open the front side window to get ventilation or ash your cigar ( I know you are not "supposed" to do that thanks Smokey the Bear...). The triangular vent windows on other vehicles work better in those respects. Sure we have scuttle vents but so did some of them, and the others had the windshields that opened...

No kick vents on the floor mean your footwells turn into little ovens in the summer, at least on the exhaust side. Some sort of ventilation down there would have been appreciated and was offered on the competition.

All in all Land Rover did ok, but it could have done a lot better had it had the $ and inclination. The Stage 1 should have been introduced in 1965 and SHOULD have been offered here in both wheelbases with Salisbury rear axle- that would have sold like hotcakes here.

[mongoswede]

When they started building rovers plastic had yet to be a main stream product. They did put rubber and I think leather (yes/no?) between some of the steel and Aluminum but after 40 years it pretty much doesnt exist.


Why did they feel that only 2 fuses would be sufficient to protect the entire wiring system?

[mongoswede]

#7. Why is the very wire they use crap?
#8. Why are the plastics used crap?
#9. Why is the whole electrical system crap?
#10. Why are problems called "Character"? [And laughed about, and not called niggling troubles?]

Why do die hard enthusiasts get all bent out of shape when we build modern solutions to these age old problems :confused:

#11. Why in the world do we spend mountains of money on these things? [If our everyday cars acted like these, we'd burn them to the ground in a fit of passion...]

'95 R.R.C. Lwb
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S...

[TedW]

Regarding points 2, 5 and 6:

I doubt that LR originally expected their vehicles to last longer than any other vehicle of the era: By the time it became clear that some of these trucks were hanging on longer than expected, the die was cast as far as production techniques were concerned.

One of my major peeves is all the wiring (in high-abrasion places like wheel wells) that is exposed to the elements. I made wheel well liners out of industrial rubber sheeting right after I bought my truck in '91 - they have made all the difference in keeping rust and decay to a minimum. Much quieter, too.

[Broadstone]

Why did take the military to realize it is not practical to remove a transmission through the passenger side door? And why was this not changed on civilian models much sooner?

[TeriAnn]

15. Why in the world did the put the timing marks on the driver side front but the distributor on the passenger side back.

15A. Why in the world did they put the timing mark on the flywheel so you needed to remove a cover plate and even then you can not see the mark because it is recessed inside the bulkhead's dished area.

16. Land Rover licensed the Land Rover to Santana then Santana sold the LT85 gearbox to Land Rover when Land Rover needed a heavier duty gearbox. Why didn't Land Rover buy or license the Santana 6 cylinder diesel as well? The Santana six cylinder diesel was basically a Land Rover 4 cylinder diesel with 2 more cylinders added on.

[gudjeon]

How about a vehicle where a carb ices in damp weather being designed in England?

[TeriAnn]

How about a vehicle where a carb ices in damp weather being designed in England?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with that combination of words arranged the way you placed them. But if you are asking for a carb that will not ice up in cold damp weather, Land Rover had an optional Solex that came with a carb heating element that kept the carb from icing.

My 109 came from the factory with one.

Or are you asking for a carb that can make ice?

[disco2hse]

lol


Or are you asking for a carb that can make ice?

I think this one, but that it will only make ice in weather that was designed in England and is damp.

[gudjeon]

Yes, a clumsy arrangement. I meant a vehicle designed in England hat has the carburetter ice up. It happens on anything not fitted with carb heating arrangements, like most of them.

[bobzinak]

#1 why put odometers that go up to a million miles when most speeedos don't last to 100,000 mi.
#2 I think that put bigger one piece windshields so that the wiper could overlap and give much better viewing through the windshield, and had to raise the windshield up to allow wiper clearance.
#3 early defender both door windows slid, you had a choice open in front, open in back. I put on some defender rain shields and can open up the front glass panel and it creates a nice vacuum in the cab, sucking out the interior air.
#4 shiny rovers hurt my eyes.
wiring is funky and as any one can tell you who has owned any british leyland product, the bullets on the end of the wires break off when you try to remove them from the connectors, which also corrode and split, amking it a pain to trace down problems.
#5 One of my biggest peeves if having to remove the floor panels to access the transmission, several times I have broken my shift lever, if i'm lucky it will be in third or forth and I can shift from low rangew to high range to get me somewhere to fix it. i finall adapted the tunnel to mount on top of the floor panels, so all I have to do is take out some of the large floor screws to get at the top of the transmission. It can be really hard to get the panel to lift past the break pedal without taking more stuff apart.
#6 don't even get me started on some of the places they put withworth nuts and bolt, I can deal with them on the tranny, but the ones holding on the swivel balls to the axle are a real pain in the ass. the brass one on the original starter cable is just dam inconvinient..
my two cents...rove on, bobzinak

[Alaskan Rover]

Or are you asking for a carb that can make ice?

I think a carburetor that makes frozen margaritas would actually be much more popular....especially in THIS weather!!

.

[4flattires]

I kinda like the wire insulation choices they made. Some plastic, some braided cloth covered, all on the same vehicle. I especially enjoy the disappearing braided cloth color along with the invisible trace color (if there even was one). You can find those coverings in the deepest, darkest, least UV-penetrating-undercover-shielded-from-gamma-rays-impervious-to-oxizidation locations.....and STILL....that wire insulation will be all white.

Ahhhh...the joys of mastering a DVOM via vehicle ownership.

[JimCT]

Give LR a break! These are glorified tractors with windscreens and doors. Buy a RR if you want the comforts of home!




I kinda like the wire insulation choices they made. Some plastic, some braided cloth covered, all on the same vehicle. I especially enjoy the disappearing braided cloth color along with the invisible trace color (if there even was one). You can find those coverings in the deepest, darkest, least UV-penetrating-undercover-shielded-from-gamma-rays-impervious-to-oxizidation locations.....and STILL....that wire insulation will be all white.

Ahhhh...the joys of mastering a DVOM via vehicle ownership.

[mearstrae]

You get the same troubles with a Rangie, it's just that more hi-tech ones are included free. And all these crappie parts are by Order of the Queen and the Trade Unions, or so I'm told (Why else would British cars still use real wood and Lucas parts?). It's not Land Rover's fault, really....

'95 R.R.C. Lwb
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[flighht2k5]

Give LR a break! These are glorified tractors with windscreens and doors. Buy a RR if you want the comforts of home!

A Unimog is a glorified tractor :)


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[JimCT]

I like tractors, have a 1953 Ford Jubilee and a 1956 Farmall 140, and have always had a LR



A Unimog is a glorified tractor :)


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[mearstrae]

Unimog's are listed as tractors, (I've seen the shipping documents for a friend's Unimog, and he had a time convincing PennDOT that it wasn't a German Farmall...) and Land Rovers aren't. Pretty much the only difference. These Series LR's get the job done, and are simple and tough. Modern Jeeps they are not.

'95 R.R.C. Lwb
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[flighht2k5]

Unimog's are listed as tractors, (I've seen the shipping documents for a friend's Unimog, and he had a time convincing PennDOT that it wasn't a German Farmall...) and Land Rovers aren't. Pretty much the only difference. These Series LR's get the job done, and are simple and tough. Modern Jeeps they are not.

'95 R.R.C. Lwb
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

I like land rovers, but there is a huge difference between a Unimog and a land rover. Because rovers may have been marketed as a tractor doesn't make it an efficient one. They are not built heavy enough for day to day operations as one. Just as when keeps first came out.


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[mearstrae]

Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. The first land Rover were marketed as a farm truck (after WWII), with implements available for farming: ploughs, harrows, saw mills, welding stations, brush cutters, etc. A Unimog is definately not the same as a LR, I just meant that it was a similar concept.

'95 R.R.C. Lwb
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S