Recommendations for Engine Restoration/Upgrade 109 2.25

[mjones1700]

Okay, I am just about finished with my long, cosmetic (and structural) restoration of my landy. Now, I want to turn my attention the the engine. Everything is original (73) and it runs fine (diesels at times, may be timing off a bit), but I wonder what improvements should I make. I'm not a stickler for originality but performance.

New head? I am burning unleaded fuel with the original head/valves.
New Carb? If so, should I stick with original or look at a newer type?
Electronic ignition?
or Leave it alone, if it isn't broken don't fix it.

[mongoswede]

you will spend a lot of money to make the 2.25 engine perform better. Your money would be better invested into a newer engine conversion. This will of course open up a dangerous path...if you go to powerful on your new engine you will find that your axles and gearbox are no longer up to task. Once you upgrade those you will discover that your drum brakes no longer stop the truck.

The cheap things:
properly tuned carb
run a little more free flowing air filter and look at slightly bigger exhausts.
You could consider having the flywheel lightened...engine will rev more easily but will also slow down faster.
Make sure you have the 8:1 head...could have it shaved but then you will have to sort out your pushrods
I hear the 2.5 cams fit and offer a little more power?
hotter coil and electronic ignition

[jonnyc]

I believe our hosts sell a "hi-perf" engine. See what it has and either get it or upgrade yours. I would (I did) add a Rochester carb and K&N filter. Do the electronic ignition in any case.

[antichrist]

A 200Tdi is a tidy swap and doesn't require much in the way of change.

[mjones1700]

A 200Tdi is a tidy swap and doesn't require much in the way of change.

I've heard pros and cons about this (see for example the con from mongoswede). One way I've heard is removing the "T" from TDI to power down the engine. But, where do you get the 200 to start with? The one source I knew of doesn't have them anymore.

[o2batsea]

I believe a certain Mr Bobeck still has his Iron Duke conversion available that he took out of Red Square when he began his 200tdi swap. This is a direct replacement for the 2.25, and he has all the stuff to install it. I don't think it has very many miles on it. This is the best you can do if you stay with gas. A virtual "drop in"

[antichrist]

But, where do you get the 200 to start with? The one source I knew of doesn't have them anymore.I've heard they are pretty common in the UK.

[Winemark]

Tom could you post some reliable sources for people looking for 200's
thanks

[antichrist]

The only diesels I've bought were from individuals who weren't doing it as a business. There's a place in Atlanta called AtlantaCruisers, or something like that, that also works on Land Rovers and they had several 300Tdi's.
I'd check on D-90 source, they come up for sale there not too infrequently.
I think at the moment someone there has a 2.5T out of a 110.

[o2batsea]

A 200Tdi is a tidy swap and doesn't require much in the way of change.

This is true up to a point. Keep in mind that Tom is an experienced long time LRO who can do engine swaps in his sleep. For the first timer, especially one who has limited tools and equipment, this can be a real show stopper. Starting with actually sourcing an engine that isn't a POS, getting all the parts together, changing the fuel lines, the wiring, the plumbing and all that goes with those systems can be daunting. You have to ask yourself if this is really something you want to pursue.
I wouldn't bother with a non turbo diesel. You really won't be happy after all that work having such a slow lump. The turbo basically doubles the power, so a 2.5L TD puts out what you would expect from a 5L non turbo engine. Consequently, a 2.5L non turbo puts out about half what a turbo version does.

I will go you one better tho. If you are going to all this bother, what you really should do is get yourself a coil conversion galvanized frame from Iain at Designa Chassis, an R380/LT230, Disco 1 axles and rebuild the truck as a resto mod. You could build up the rolling chassis, and in one huge burst of effort, swap the body over in a long weekend.

[jonnyc]

Really seems like the easiest, most cost-efficient upgrade would be to modify the existing engine or install an already upgraded 2.25. You might not get a HUGE increase in power, but you might get enough to make you happy. Series Rovers ain't hot rods.

On another note......just brought home my wife's brand new Fiat 500 Sport. Couldn't talk her into the Abarth, but it is a FUN little car to drive.

[TeriAnn]

You guys went from engine improvement to engine swap faster than a dragster could do the quarter mile.

To the original question:

The first thing you need to do is check compression. You can't do much with a tired engine. Also pull the pan and take a look at the bearings. LR petrol engines can keep going long after other engines have become too worn to run.

If it is tired a rebuild with 2.5L cam, new timing chain & gears and new rings can really help. You can mill a 8:1 head to 9:1 compression. A B Rochester would help the breathing. Go one diameter larger on the exhaust system tubing and a free flow muffler. Distributors get worn. Check yours for any side to side wobble. Replace or rebuild as needed. Today's points are not as good as yesterday's points so a Pertronix conversion with coil will help keep your timing where you set it.

All that will probably get you up to the stock HP of a 2.5 LR engine. So if you can you would be best off starting with a fresh 2.5L engine with its stock 2 barrel Weber (better suited than the aftermarket 2 barrel). Mill the head to 9:1 and you will not get as much HP as a stock 200tdi.

With a 109, the turbo of a Disco 200 tdi manifold will want to occupy the same space as the frame. So you want Defender manifolds. 200 tdi parts are getting harder to find. A 300 tdi is basically the same engine. Swap out the 300 tdi flywheel housing for a 200 tdi clutch housing and you can bolt the 300tdi to a Series gearbox. You will want to use the disc & pressure plate from a 2.5L diesel.

But before you do that. If you are interested in an engine swap check with Robert Davis rdavisinva@yahoo.com to see what he is offering these days. Robert started with the then common Iron Duke for cylinder conversion with Scotty adapter from the 80's and has refined it over the decades. I think he may be doing something with a Mercedes 617 diesel conversion these days. The Mercedes 617 is a better engine then the 200/300tdi (in my opinion).

[TeriAnn]

Series Rovers ain't hot rods.

You have obviously never seen Timm Cooper's Series I with Chevy Vortex V8 out of a Cadillac

They are hot rods if you want them to be.

[blue bomber]

Repair what you have with mild tweaks unless you have the skill and check book for an engine swap. The correct Rochester , 8.1 head, electronic ignition and a larger exhaust. Will net you affordable worthwhile gains. With an engine swap, you have to take into consideration the whole vehicle. Sounds like your close to driving it regularly,have some fun with it!!

[mjones1700]

I think I have to be a realist and my issue is time. As an owner of a new medical practice I'm both broke in money and time. It took me 2 1/2 years to dismantle the body, repair the frame and panels, replace the foot wells, sand blast and power coat the gas tank, replace the bumpers and replace/repair the doors and other miscellaneous parts. . . then put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

So, I will start with electronic ignition and new carb. Now the larger diameter exhaust . . . did you have that custom made or is there an off-the-shelf type of replacement? I may consider putting in a new head.

The good thing is that I live on an island that the fastest speed limit on the island is about 45 MPH. So, I would like to go up our big hills faster than 20 MPH and I would like an engine that starts faithfully and runs smoothly and gets more than 10 MPG. But I won't be doing any freeway driving so I don't need that much power or even an overdrive.

[antichrist]

You guys went from engine improvement to engine swap faster than a dragster could do the quarter mile.Well, I was basing my response on the thread title "Recommendations for Engine Restoration/Upgrade 109 2.25"
IMO a 200Tdi is an upgrade. But then, I love diesels. :)

[TeriAnn]

Now the larger diameter exhaust . . . did you have that custom made or is there an off-the-shelf type of replacement?

Just take it to a muffler shop and ask them to replace what you have with tubes one size larger in dia.

[Alaskan Rover]

I love my 2.25 liter...it's an extremely rugged and well-built little engine. A little thirsty for its size, but not too much so. But that is in an 88", NOT a much heavier 109"!

I think the 109's with the 2.25 are a little overburdened by the beast....I mean we're talking 66 hp here.

Anyone ever know anyone who's swapped in an old plymouth slant six 225 c.i. engine into the bay? Along side the rover 2.25, I think the slant six is one of the most durable, rugged, longest-lived engines in the world.

I'm pretty sure one would fit the engine, but what to use for a tranny/transfer case, I have no idea.

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