Engine compatibility options ? (Die-hard enthusiasts turn your head)

[mrdoiron]

OK A-Team engine Guru's,

I'm sure this is listed somewhere, but looking for a cheat sheet. and aruably not a question for the "enthusiast" Forum, but here goes...

"If" one were wanting to swap a 4 cyl 2.25L out of a 69' Ser-IIa for another newer Land rover Engine - curious as to what my options/restrictions might be on size and compatibility land-minds to enable the cleanest upgrade. I also have a Hybrid 61 with a 3.9L RR v8, but I didnt do the conversion, so not sure what challenges that posed...

I do want avoid costly shipping etc, and know there are plenty of 'donor' Disco/RR's around - but not sure yet of the compatibility challenges. For example, I can get a 96 4.6L RR complete (all peripherals with donor) pretty cheap and wondered if that is possible - or what other models would be best recommended.

After the yelling :-) , appreciate any suggestions,

mike

[ThePhotographer]

I would recommend against newish engines, as their electronics can be very difficult to work with.

[slorocco]

I like this thread :-) I may be thinking along the same lines. Depending on what you mean by compatibility, and depending on how much work you want to do, the possibilities are endless. You could start with a relatively simple upgrade like the 2.5 petrol or diesel or go all out and swap the motor/trans/t-case for something completely different. There are several of us who have put the Cummins 4bt in rovers but I can attest that it is a lot of work.

I'm also thinking of a Rover v8 swap, but am considering dumping the injection system and going with a carb for simplicity. Not yet sure what the rest of the drive train would be for my project. One of the main reasons for the engine choice on my end is that I have one sitting around. You might want to start with what your intended use of the truck is and let that drive some of your choices. Terri Ann put together a pretty good page on engine conversions. That would be a good place to start reading. http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/engine_conversions.htm

[mrdoiron]

Thanks, I recalled seeing her link before, but at the time wasnt on that page so it didnt stick - and I forgot how to find it. This is a good start. For me, the intended use would be to have a fairly versatile vehicle for road worthyness, as well as decent offroad - nothing crazy. Power for hwy use certainly would be nice, albeit it will never be my daily driver.

will consume her page this weekend, and still open to any suggestions on 'easiest route' (and economical) to conversion from a donor vehicle...

cheers

[73series88]

Once my new frames paid off
Or my 2.25 petrol lump gives up the ghost
( knock on wood) I'm going with a 200 tdi
I was going to do a 2.5 nad but not much
Power upgrade. Tdi has better milage
And power
Aaron

[o2batsea]

Robert Davis has a Mercedes Diesel conversion that I would seriously consider. As with all his conversions it is supposed to be a drop in. Otherwise a 200tdi is to my mind the ideal Series truck engine. I would never ever put any Rover NA diesel in any vehicle. Just so not worth the bother.

[Jim-ME]

I had a 2.5 NAD put in my Rover and am more than happy with it. I don't see why you would be against it. I average 26 mpg and it powers my 88 just fine. Any of the TDIs require a lot more fabrication to install. I suppose if you have the fab skills you can do what you want. I don't. If I wanted more power I'd just buy a Defender. I just never understood why people buy a Series truck and then want it to be something it was never intended to be.
Jim

[dabawei]

I just never understood why people buy a Series truck and then want it to be something it was never intended to be.
Jim
Totally agree, the same was thinking to do when start the project, but the serious issue here is the safety! After restore my series2a I realize when driving it, I am sitting on chassis with tune box :p

[I Leak Oil]

The trips that I've been on with atleast 3 different trucks with 2.5D motors have convinced me that you won't lose any drivability with one vs. a 2.25 gasser and you'll get much better mileage. All 3 owners stated they wouldn't go back to a 2.25 after driving their truck with a 2.5D for a while. It's an easy swap and you can usually find them for relatively little money. Like a series rover in general, a diesel isn't for everyone though.Any more complicated a swap than that and I think I'd have to go with a non-rover motor.

[Moose]

Agreed. I have had the 2.5NA in my 88 for a couple years now and love it. Performs like the petrol motor but has much better mileage (400+ km per tank) and sounds way cool.

Brett

[73series88]

Oh I didnt realize the 2.5 milage was
That good . Do you have to wedge
One side up to fit?
Aaron

[SafeAirOne]

Do you have to wedge One side up to fit?

Just helped install one last month. Didn't require the use of any wedges, unless that's slang for something else besides a wedge.

[73series88]

Was reading a webpage on 2.5
In a series and for some part to clear
They had to make a custom
Mount on the right that brought it up some
Not sure

[Moose]

The motor mount on the right side needs to be moved back a bit but stays at the same height. One of the legs for the battery tray needs to be removed so that it does not interfere with the timing belt cover or injector pump.

Brett

[mrdoiron]

.... I suppose if you have the fab skills you can do what you want. I don't. If I wanted more power I'd just buy a Defender. I just never understood why people buy a Series truck and then want it to be something it was never intended to be.
Jim
I have a Defender, just also have a couple Series, and one I like am considering to make more usable to my desires. As I said in the title :-)
Not a done deal, I may end up selling the 69 instead, just once you put so much into these to get them complete, you sometimes end up wanting more as that horizon gets closer.

Appreciate the inputs gents.

[I Leak Oil]

Just helped install one last month.

Forgot about D's motor swap. That makes it 4 good rover buds that are pleased with their swap to the 2.5D.

I'm still trying to decide if I want to put the money into mine or not...

[Jim-ME]

Jason,
Go for it! You know you want to.
Jim

[TeriAnn]

Published Land Rover Factory specs:

2.25L petrol: 70 hp @4000 RPM, 120 ftlb @ 2000 RPM (8:1 engine)
2.5L petrol: 83 @ 4000, 133 @ 2000 (longer stroke)
2.25L diesel: 60 @ 4000, 103 @ 1800
2.5L diesel: 68 @ 4000, 117 @ 1800
2.5L turbo diesel: 84 @ 4000, 150 @ 1800 (known for turbo related problems)
2.5L 200tdi: 111 @ 4000, 188 @ 1800 (reason the petrol engine was discontinued)
2.5L 300tdi: 113 @ 4000, 195 @ 1800

Mercedes published specs for newer engines:

OM616 2.4L 4 cyl: 72 @4400, 97 lbft @ 2400
OM617 3L 5 cyl: 125 @4350, 170 lb/ft @ 2400 (Robert Davis has a kit that makes this conversion easy)

ISUZU specs:
4BD1 3.9L 4 cyl: 86 @ 3200, 181 @ 1900rpm (weighs over half again what the LR four cylinder weighs)
4BD1-T, 3.9L 4 cyl turbo: 121@ 3000, 232 @ 2200 ( much heavier and a lot harder to install than a 300tdi)

Personally if I were going for a diesel engine conversion today I would be really interested in talking to Robert Davis. My only concern would be the weak Series gearbox.

[o2batsea]

You 2.5NA luddites who fail to see the advantages of the turbo diesel should take a look at the table above. The 2.5NA is a whopping 8 HP over the incredibly poor performing 2.25 diesel... How anyone who travels US roadways can be happy with an engine that slow is beyond my reckoning.
It's not like you have to live with it like that!

[stomper]

I guess I am a Luddite too then, for enjoying and keeping my 2.25 petrol. As I have gotten older and wiser, I have realized it doesn't need to go fast to be fun. Slow down, take in the scenery, and stop focusing on the finish line.

[o2batsea]

Well, Maine IS the Luddite State.
Having lived with and driven a 2.25 diesel in the 109 SW for many years I can say it was both fun and terrifying, often at the same time. However going up some of the hills in Pennsylvania at 20 mph (in fog) while 18 wheelers whiz'd by 8 feet away at 70 freaked me into the V8 swap. That was wrong, granted. I never should have done it. I should have gone and done the Tdi conversion back then. I'm doing it now, so all is OK.

[mrdoiron]

... I should have gone and done the Tdi conversion back then. I'm doing it now, so all is OK.

So appreciate the inputs so far. I am putting out an APB out for an affordable 200tdi or 300tdi. Found one source already for 200td with rebuilt Inj pump, rebuilt injectors and head gasket done - mated to an early transaxle with all attaching parts in an Air Portable - a bit too expensive however, so still searching... if any ideas - once again appreciated.

Alternatively if anyone wants a very straight/restored and underpowered 69, with one bad ass 400w stereo before I 'go there', speak now !

thanks
mike

[o2batsea]

No Tdi, but I do have a 3.9/R380/LT230 that's ready to drop in. Came with the Designa coil chassis I bought from Ron Brown, but I'm not using it.

[I Leak Oil]

You 2.5NA luddites who fail to see the advantages of the turbo diesel should take a look at the table above.......
It's not like you have to live with it like that!

Perhaps people don't mind living like that, living with what they've got.
I don't recall anyone saying the tdi doesn't have an advantage in the power\torque catagory.

[SafeAirOne]

Perhaps people don't mind living like that, living with what they've got.
I don't recall anyone saying the tdi doesn't have an advantage in the power\torque catagory.

Don't waste your time, Jason. It's a lost cause...

[mrdoiron]

o2batsea, tried to send a PM, but seems your mailbox is full

[o2batsea]

try again or email me yottyboy at gmail

[mrdoiron]

sorry late response as I've been travelling and ocnsummed - so just sent an email.

cheers, mike

[Skookumchuck]

Hopefully later this week the Red Rover (68 series IIA 109 SW) will be running with its 200TDI upgrade. it has been in the shop since March and I am getting excited to get it back. I will let you know what the difference is in my truck. It has the high ratio transfer case so when you hit any kind of a hill it realy didn't have any power. I live in the mountains so to reliably get around i needed the increased power.