Engine Won't Turn

[gogo34]

First time poster here. I have a 1966 Series IIa that I just acquired. I just replaced the gas pump this morning and after priming the lines and getting excited to crank it up...now the engine won't turn. The first try after replacing the pump it turned over and sputtered for about 10 seconds then died. Now it won't do anything when I hit the ignition button. It won't make any noise at all. I tried using the hand crank but it is very difficult to get the engine to rotate at all. You can turn it but it's tough.

What happened?

[I Leak Oil]

Dead battery?

[jonnyc]

Well, one positive is that if it is hard to turn the crank by hand you might have very good compression.
If you are getting no sound at all, your battery is stone dead, the solenoid/starter switch is stone dead, or a connection between them and/or your starter button is gone. All pretty easy things to check. Best of luck.

[stomper]

Start with the battery, then, if the vehicle is new to you, I would personally replace the battery cables, and clean up the contacts from the battery to the starter switch, and from the starter switch to the starter itself. there should also be a ground strap from the starter to the frame. If there isn't one, you need to pull the starter, and clean the mating surfaces with the engine block, and add the ground strap to ensure good electricity flow.

Trust me, if you don't take the time to do this now, you will have no start issues eventually, when you are far away from home.

[Dietersrover]

I would also check to ignition coil, and the connections to it.

[gogo34]

Thanks guys. I pulled the starter motor out and it turns freely by hand and then when I tested it by hooking it up to the battery it turns as well. However, when I put it back in and try to jump it directly from the battery (ie by pass all the wiring) I get good spark at the + terminal on the starter motor but, it still won't turn. Like I said earlier, I get the engine to turn over by hand (albeit difficultly) but, I get the feeling that the starter motor isn't strong enough to turn the engine (since I barely can) so when I give it the juice straight from the battery it doesn't move. I would think it would still make a noise, even if it couldn't turn the engine.

Am I missing something?

[artpeck]

Sorry to restate the obvious but have you checked to see what the battery is producing? If the battery is strong I would then go to the cylinders and pistons. Has the engine sat for awhile? If so did you put some mystery oil or what ever it is called into the cylinders and let it sit? I can't imagine it would be the starter itself unless you have reason to believe it was replaced with a lower capacity unit. Hard to offer more here without a sense of your starting point with the truck.

[disco2hse]

Pull the plugs and try turning it over. It should spin like crazy.

Replace the plugs, leads, rotor, condensor, distributor cap, the lead from the coil to the cap, and possibly coil too. Set the plug gaps correctly, and the rotor. Preset the timing since you have the plugs out and can feel for TDC with your finger, you can fine tune it later once the engine is running.

Replace all fuel and reprime the pump.

Check that the pump is producing fuel for the carb. Empty the float chamber and check that there is no crud in there. Replace the fuel filters.

Check the oil level and water level. You can change the oil once you got the engine running and have warmed it up a little. With the coolant, change that once the engine has cooled. Take the opportunity to change the thermostat too, while there is no coolant in the engine.

Umm, you describe the starter turning over, I think, and you say the engine is not turning over. Is the bendix kicking out? Is it in gear? Can you crank start it?

[mjones1700]

Thanks guys. I pulled the starter motor out and it turns freely by hand and then when I tested it by hooking it up to the battery it turns as well. However, when I put it back in and try to jump it directly from the battery (ie by pass all the wiring) I get good spark at the + terminal on the starter motor but, it still won't turn. Like I said earlier, I get the engine to turn over by hand (albeit difficultly) but, I get the feeling that the starter motor isn't strong enough to turn the engine (since I barely can) so when I give it the juice straight from the battery it doesn't move. I would think it would still make a noise, even if it couldn't turn the engine.

Am I missing something?

I once bought a replacement rebuilt original Series starter. Same thing. Not a noise and I bought a brand new battery. I took it off the engine and it spun like a top on the floor when it wasn't connected to the engine. Back on and dead in the water. The person I bought it from was livid when I suggested that his starter didn't have the oomph to turn it. I eventually bought a new (modern) starter that fits the series. It started it like a new Ferrari. So my point, it could be the starter. Like others have said, the hand crank is very hard to turn on a perfect engine (good compression). I've heard of people breaking their hands on the recoil. So, don't let that discourage you.

[disco2hse]

Trawling the memory banks: I remember a starter once that spun its bendix out but it wouldn't return and so every time it was turned over the starter would turn but not engage, on another occasion, it spun out and jammed with the flywheel so it would neither spin or turn over the engine. In the latter, a "universal spanner" was required prior to pulling starter, stripping and cleaning it.

[o2batsea]

Check all the grounds, especially the one from the engine block. That means undo them, wire brush and reinstall with new nuts and bolts.

[GeniusAndHisAssistant]

i assume there is oil in it? not to sound like an idiot but i almost made that mistake once with a mower :)

[BobJones]

I had the same problem. The starter would spin great on the floor, but dead in the truck. I of coarse started from most complicated to less. Point is, after I cleaned up the ground strap connection, all was good. It's amazing how important it is to keep the ground contact clean.

[thixon]

X3 (o2batsea and bobjones). What you're describing sounds like a grounding issue. If you want to test the theory before you pull off your grounding strap, use a jumper cable to jump from the ground side of your solenoid to the negative battery terminal and see if she turns.

[gogo34]

Well, after charging the battery and replacing the starter, I think I'm getting enough juice to start the engine. Unfortunately, I can't get it to turn over without having to pour gas directly into the carb. If I put a little gas directly into the carb and start it up, it will run fine until that small amount of gas is used up. I replaced the fuel pump and I believe it is sending gas to the carb but, for some reason, I can't get it to run more than about 20 seconds.

[Boston]

How old is the gas in the tank?

[stomper]

Have you checked the fuel pick up in the tank? have you blown out te fuel lines? have you disconnected the fuel line and cranked over the engine to see if it is pumping? How about manually pumping the fuel pump? there are a few things to start with, let us know if you can't figure it out after doing these steps.

[I Leak Oil]

Disconnect the fuel line at the carb and put it in a clear jar. Pour the gas in the carb and start the truck. Is there any fuel coming out of the disconnected line and into the jar? Start there and work your way back.

[gogo34]

I'll try the clear jar trick. I've installed a new fuel pump and replaced the fuel lines. The pump is pulling gas out of the tank and into the sedimeter on the new pump but, it must not be sending it up to the carb with any real volume. I rebuilt the carb this afternoon and that didn't fix the problem. It was pretty dirty so not a waste of time but, I thought that would do it. How much "pulling" of the gas does the carb do vs "pushing" by the fuel pump. I can feel the pressure coming out of the fuel line when I pump the manual fuel pump lever but, the gas obviously isn't getting to the carb.

[albersj51]

If you find you're not getting fuel to the carb, you can grab a generic high volume low pressure electric fuel pump at Napa. Write it up and see if that works. Several people have found new mechanical pumps failing out of the box or within a short period of time.

[gogo34]

IT'S ALIVE!!! Well, after much tinkering and a good fluid flush of the fuel system, the bad boy has finally fired up. Thanks for all the advice and ideas. I was so excited that I drove it around the front yard. Now I need to figure out why it won't start unless I run a direct wire from the coil to the battery. I'm afraid I need a new ignition switch. The lights work but, I can't start it without bypassing everything and going straight to the battery. Might need to start a new thread.

[disco2hse]

Check the connectors between the coil and the starter switch. Blown fuse?

[stomper]

trace the white wire that is supposed to go to the coil back to the ignition switch. It is either connected to the wrong prong, or the ignition switch needs to be replaced. Nice work on getting it running!

[I Leak Oil]

Great job on getting it running. A little advice though. Make SURE the tank and lines are good and clean before you run it too much more or you will be doing this all again in short order. You do have an inline fuel filter right? Get a couple spares just in case, they are cheap and easy to change so do it often until you're sure the system is clear.