head gasket question

[stomper]

The green bible states to lightly smear the block and head with oil, prior to setting the new head gasket. Other areas I've read, state that the surface needs to be free from ANY oil. I'm guessing the difference is due to the copper vs. composite type of gasket. So what is the correct procedure? I'm using a composite gasket, and don't want to be doing this again anytime soon.

[thixon]

Install it dry with no compound of any kind. Run it up to operating temp and retorque. I always double check the torque again in 500 miles or so as well.

[stomper]

Thanks Thixon! That's what I needed to know.

[thixon]

Stomper, I forgot to add "let it cool down" after running it up to operating temp and retorque. Sorry, I was using my sons kindle to post (I'm not used to that damn thing.)

[jac04]

According to the factory manual, the retorque should be performed at full operating temperature with the spark plugs removed.

Also note that retorqueing the head gasket will have a slight impact on tappet clearance, so you should check & adjust as necessary.

[I Leak Oil]

The manual may say to do it at full temp but in my experience you should NEVER retorque at full temp. I've never heard of that on any model engine. There's a good chance you can cause damage to the head or new gasket by doing it this way.

Think about why you have to retorque in the first place and you can understand why.

[SafeAirOne]

I'm surprised that there is a need to re-torque a composite head gasket. Usualy that is done with non-composite gaskets (like the original style head gasket that the engine came with and that the WSM refers to in its instructions).

[jac04]

I'm surprised that there is a need to re-torque a composite head gasket. Usualy that is done with non-composite gaskets (like the original style head gasket that the engine came with and that the WSM refers to in its instructions).

Funny, I believe the FSM actually refers to the composite head gasket as a non-retorque type, then specifies the requirement to retorque it.

[I Leak Oil]

Sounds like a politician wrote the FSM!:)

[jac04]

The manual may say to do it at full temp but in my experience you should NEVER retorque at full temp. I've never heard of that on any model engine. There's a good chance you can cause damage to the head or new gasket by doing it this way.

Turner Engineering also specifies in their manual that the head gaskets be retorqued with the engine up to temp.
I think it's pretty safe to assume that if both Land Rover and Turner Engineering specify a retorque when warm then it is OK.

[thixon]

On the re-torque or not to re-torque thing, it depends on the manufacturer of the gasket and the materials they use. Some specify their gaskets as a one and done after installation. Others recommend the re-torque. I got into the habit of calling the manufacturers of the various composite gaskets I'd end up with for other marque's and asking just because I'm **** when I assemble a motor. The one thing that was consistent was that a re-torque (when performed properly) wouldn't hurt anything (even when the spec didn't call for it). I've always done a re-torque and have rarely had a bad experience. Just my 2 cents.

[thixon]

On the hot or cold thing, you'll hear arguments both directions. Go read and make you own decisions. It's and age old argument.

The nutshell description of what you'll hear is this: On a cast iron head, re-torqueing while hot can yield slightly different torque settings from start to finish as you run through the sequence because the engine is cooling and the metal is contracting. I've talked to old timers who says they've actually had head bolts that are loose after a hot re-torque using copper gaskets (I have no idea if this is true or not, I just heard them say it!). I personally have never had this happen.

I've seen several manuals recommend to re-torque when the engine is warm, even on aluminum heads. I think a hot re-torque on an aluminum head is a monumentally silly thing to due, but I've seen it done. My neighbor has a for dragster with a stroked 427. I've personally witnessed him do a warn re-torque on some really expensive dart aluminum heads with no trouble. Go figure.

[stomper]

This is all excellent info guys. Believe it or not, I have't seen this discussed at all on the forums. I think it is a great discussion to have, and it obviously helps me with my current project! So out of curiosity, will rovers north employees care to weigh in, as I bought the head gasket from you all.