Replacing the engine?

[sleam]

Hello! I'm looking into replacing the engine on my 72 SIII. Why? Given the highways around here and the kind of driving I have to do, going at 50 miles per hour is unsafe. What do you think? Would a different engine help the over all speed? Can I replace the 2.25 with something bigger or would that make everything else need to be changed to? I don't know how this works! My last LR had overdrive, so can that get added to help with the 2.25 petrol engine I have? Any thoughts or clarity would be great - thanks.
7800
I love this landie but don't drive it as much as I'd like because i've had people come and almost rear end me so many times that I'm losing my nerve. I have some savings and good mechanics so I'd love to know what you think is best.

[antichrist]

Yeah, the simplest is an overdrive or high ratio transfer case.

[Boston]

What he said. For more work try adding a r380 5 speed box

[greenmeanie]

If you can only get 50mph out of an 88 then something is wrong. Before launching into an engine swap I'd be going over the drivetrain in detail to find the existing problem. It may be a cheap and easy fix and a lot less hassle than an engine conversion.

I used to run 1000 miles a week on the I10 in AZ in a pretty stock '71IIA 88 2.25 and while never capable of breaking the speed limit I could keep up with the big rigs and traffic in the slow lane.

That roof rack will provide significant drag too. If you want to go fast pull it off unless you are actually using it.

[stomper]

Before I suggest an overdrive vs. a bigger engine, I guess I would want to know what the current limitations are in your truck in your area. Are you driving 50 because of hills, or because the gearing on the flats won't allow the engine to turn the wheels any faster? An overdrive won't do anything to help you go faster on an uphill climb, but a few extra horsepower might.

The other thing to consider, is if you go with a bigger engine, what will you be doing to strengthen the next weakest link in the drivetrain? The tranny is not going to last long if you put too much more horsepower through it, nor will the axles. If you go the engine route, we would need to know what engine you are considering before someone can advise you on whether you are going to need to uprate everything else.

[I Leak Oil]

Driving a series on the highway often isn't for everyone. Just some food for thought.
I have no problem driving mine. I've been to VA, taking I-95 all the way, way up to Maine, I-95, Western NY, I-90. Do I get tailgated, cut off, people don't yield on the on ramps....Yes. But that happens when I drive my 2004 Silverado also. Even when I'm doing 75 there are still arsehats that tailgate.

Mine doesn't do much more than 55 without the OD either so yours may not be so abnormal depending on the lay of the land.

[TeriAnn]

Hello! I'm looking into replacing the engine on my 72 SIII.
I love this landie but don't drive it as much as I'd like because i've had people come and almost rear end me so many times that I'm losing my nerve. I have some savings and good mechanics so I'd love to know what you think is best.

One such close call too many is why my SII now has a Ford 5.0L V8 in it. ... and a NP435 gearbox, and high ratio transfercase, and special prop shafts, and a Salisbury in the rear with ARB and hardened 24 spline rear axles and 24 spline front axles with Trutrac & 4.75:1 R&P gears. What I am saying is that you can not add a whole lot of power without upgrading everything in your drive train. The Rover gearbox is not all that strong but the LR transfercase is strong. The 10 spline axles are consumables. The 4.7:1 R&P gears are not very robust and neither is the stock Rover carrier the gears are mounted on.

You didn't mention if you have any fabrication or welding skills. If you want to stay with petrol and your fabrication skills are basic home mechanic and you have deep pockets your best and easiest bet is a fresh 2.5L petrol engine with a cylinder head from ACR. It will give you a 15-20 HP boost with noticeably more torque over a fresh 8:1 2.25L engine. The 2.5 has a longer crank with really helps with the torque. You might want to switch to hardened 10 spline rear axles from ROAM OFFROAD or put in a 24 spline Truetrac and a 24 spline rear axle upgrade. Add a Roverdrive and you should be doing a 65 MPH speed limit below 5000 feet and off the steep hills with not problem

If you are in the New Mexico highlands you should consider a turbo diesel conversion. Rob Davis is supposed to be offering a Mercedes 617 turbo diesel conversion that I've heard is mostly bolt in. You will want a Roverdrive with that.

If you have good welding & fabrication skills you might consider a 300tdi & short bell housing R380 five speed gearbox. Ashcroft Transmissions can supply you with a short bellhousing R380 and a kit to adapt the box to a Series transfercase. Not cheap but well engineered and a much stronger alternative to the Series gearbox or the LT77 five speed. Of course you will want to strengthen the rear end as well.

Engine upgrades do not come cheap. If you are in mountains at altitude there is not really much you can do with a petrol engine short of lots of cubic inches. I'm at 7000 feet & a fuel injected 5.0L engine climbs mountains smartly, but I remember the days when I could not go as fast as the posted minimum speed limit on some of the Utah mountain roads. Those were the 2.25L 8:1 engine days.

If diesel is OK with you and you drive at altitude, a tdi or 617 Mercedes turbo diesel is probably your best bet. Just more $$$ and more work.

It is kind of like the old racing story. A racer goes to a mechanic and asks how fast can he make an engine go and the mechanic answers how much money do you have.

[Revtor]

Your engine might just be really worn and down on power. Freshening it up, removing that roof rack (air resistance (drag) goes up 2x compared with speed) and adding an overdrive and you'll be cruising on the highway with no problem.


looks like beautiful rovering country you've got over there...

~Steve

[BGreen]

The 2.25L gas engine was replaced in my 1972 Series III SWB Station Wagon. Entire driveline minus engine came from a Series III 109 Stage 1. Engine is a 155 hp Rover SD-1 3.5L V8. This setup, with a high ratio transfer case, gives me 22-24 mpg and I can easily maintain 75 mph here in Colorado.

[mearstrae]

I have a similar set-up as BGreen. Mine is out of an 80's Range Rover with an LT-95 with high ratio transfer (it's a one piece set-up) and Fairey overdrive. it will go a lot faster than it is safe to go. Works well on interstates and the mileage is better than my wife's Range Rover (mostly since my SIII is lighter). BUT... and here is the rub. Parts are hard to find for the trans and transfer, not to mention the one-off Fairey OD. Engine parts are easy to find, and I have a number of GM parts on it. Some fabrication (and engineering) was needed to bring it all together, as in all engine swaps. It all equates to: 1. What do you really need? 2. How much time do you have? 3. How much money will you spend?

'95 RRC Lwb
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[sleam]

Hey, thanks everyone. Yes, I'm up at 7000 ft altitude and some hills and curves on the simple highway to Santa Fe, not even thinking about the Interstate at this point! Since I just want a little more oomph (that's a technical term) I'll get the engine and compression and all of that as soon as I can. Then the overdrive is next and i think that might be enough for what I really need and can afford. Until I'm off camping I could take the roofrack off too. Thanks for all the input. Appreciate it!
s

[I Leak Oil]

7000 ft eh? Could be as simple as re-jetting your carburator.

[TeriAnn]

Hey, thanks everyone. Yes, I'm up at 7000 ft altitude and some hills and curves on the simple highway to Santa Fe, not even thinking about the Interstate at this point! Since I just want a little more oomph (that's a technical term) I'll get the engine and compression and all of that as soon as I can. Then the overdrive is next and i think that might be enough for what I really need and can afford. Until I'm off camping I could take the roofrack off too. Thanks for all the input. Appreciate it!
s

You and I are at the same altitude. Other than making sure your carb jet is not overly rich (carry the old one for the times you descend into the low lands) you really need lots of cubic inches or a turbo diesel.

The wrong jetting can really hurt and make sure that when the accelerator pedal is on the floor the carb is fully open.

An overdrive will not help you go faster if your engine can not push fourth well enough to go as fast as you want. But it is good at splitting gear ratios and is perfect for those hills when you can't really push fourth gear and third gear is too low. So it can help you go faster up hill when a ratio between third and fourth is just right.

[leafsprung]

I mostly drive 2.0L land rovers - they do better than 50 - something is up.

[sleam]

Time for a full tune up then it seems. I took the roof rack off too. Lighter. Maybe it's the three big dogs slowing me down???!!

[TeriAnn]

I mostly drive 2.0L land rovers - they do better than 50 - something is up.

In the mountains at 7000 feet with a hard top 88?

But yes a tune up and checking jetting might help a lot.

[stomper]

Put a rover drive on it! Then when you upgrade the engine, you can sell it to me for a discounted price!

Get the engine jetted and tuned for the altitude, and if the engine is screaming and you want a 5th gear, go for the OD. If you are always downshifting, go with a bigger engine.

[leafsprung]

In the mountains at 7000 feet with a hard top 88

No in the mountains at 5,000 ft with a loaded 107 pickup ;-)

[TeriAnn]

No in the mountains at 5,000 ft with a loaded 107 pickup ;-)

Low lander! :D

[REDrum]

As others have noted 50MPH max, if on flat tarmac with air in tires, is on the low side of top end.

I top out at 100KPH (~63MPH) in a '76 SIII 88 with a 2.25 diesel, overdrive, on flat tarmac, with air in tires, and at sea level... But hills at >5,000ft is very different physics. Sure regearing can help, but its not a silver bullet to just needing more HP. With a petrol engine you can build another 25hp into it with without too much trouble. Cams, heads, compression, exhaust, jets....typical gear-head add on stuff. Short of that a V8 or 200TDI swap. Anyone know if Santana straight 6 can be found in or near the US?

[TeriAnn]

Anyone know if Santana straight 6 can be found in or near the US?

I looked in the 1990's and couldn't find a trace of anyone who have even heard of a US source of Santana parts of any kind.

Back in those days I thought the Santana 6 was an interesting engine as well. But the newer turbo diesels just make a lot more sense.

[REDrum]

I looked in the 1990's and couldn't find a trace of anyone who have even heard of a US source of Santana parts of any kind. Back in those days I thought the Santana 6 was an interesting engine as well. But the newer turbo diesels just make a lot more sense.

I have heard of them in central america, but never seen one while down there. Lots of Santana's in Costa Rica. Agreed, a TDI is probably a better path to go down for a swap.

[novanick]

I'm going through the same thing right now. I've got my truck parked in the shop as of today ready to do a bit of a cleanup. The relatively good 2.25 petrol in my 88" is actually a loaner from a buddy of mine after my last motor took a dirt nap on me. I'm pulling it out this week and returning it to it's rightful owner. However instead of finding another 2.25 I may go a different route.

Pete Knowles from Riverport Rovers did a nice 4.3 GM conversion on his 109 series II. He's got an entire 'walk through' of the swap here.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RiverportRovers?feature=watch

[PeterK]

Dirt nap, I like that!

Pete

[giftshopduane]

Does everyone really think that the roof rack is creating that much drag? I would be suspect of the bull bar and jack adding extra weight. The rack unloaded seems to be relatively "airy". I could be wrong but I'm not sold. I would go over the whole engine and make sure its in good nick, if its running well around town and you want to cruise at higher speeds then invest in an OD, if you sense its lacking sack then look at the health of your motor. Also makes sure your brakes and parking drum are adjusted "correctly" I picked up a customers 88" and drove it 1/2 hour back to the shop with a dragging P-brake, man did it bum me out. If your willing to spend the money on a new motor, the added expense of swapping in a different powerplant, couldn't you sell that sweet series and pick up a D90? It will serve you quite well in the highway cruise department. My .02$

[greenmeanie]

Does everyone really think that the roof rack is creating that much drag?

Yes. Probably not the sole factor but even 'airy racks' create a huge dissturbance in the airflow generating a LOT of drag to an already brick like vehicle. The drag effect is far more complex than merely the cross section of the bars. If the engine is already stuggling the extra drag will show far more than with a good engine at sea level.

I had a pretty stock 88 in AZ that would still wind up to 65mph around Flagstaff wearing more weight than that bar and jack so, while not helping, they are not the root cause.

[SafeAirOne]

Not to turn this into a roof rack drag penalty thread, but I calculated an ~8% drop in fuel economy simply by driving around with an empty, full-length 109 roof rack.

[gwmaxhunter]

Hi, i dont know how old your post is. I live in canada bc and we have some serious hills here i have a 1964 109 and my 2.25 didnt cut it. I have installed a chevy 2.5 iron duke...not the 2.5 stovebolt.... I have taken lots of pics i have fabricated my own adapters i am ready to help out anyone who wants to do the same to there rover. this gets you a stronger engine and 105 to 115ish HP....

[bobzinak]

You never said how many miles on you engine. two items you might want to check on, besides compression, is the condition of your distributor points cam, the can get very worn and wobbly, messing up timing. then there is the problem of timing chain stretch. Having owned my 2A for many years I can attest to the fact that rovers timing chains stretch ALOT. It is a pain to get at but simple to fix, the more it gets stretched the worse the valve timing is. one chain I had stretched so much that it started hitting on the front cover. the timing chain tensioner did not click into the next slot and the rover ran very poorly. as in no power. some of the cam drive gears have several slots so you can reindex the cam gear to reset the cam timingl, without replkacing the chain, just my idea before going to a big expensive project. ROVE ON bobzinak...