wheel brake or emergency brake stuck?

[alligatorfoot]

So needness to say life has been busy and I did not move my landrover IIa since December. It started right up but when I went to put it in gear to back up the truck it would barely move (even when reving the engine a good amount). My emergecy brake is the type that is connected to the transmission and I had it up (on) for the last 5 months so I am thinking that although I released the handle it might still be stuck? Also just installed new brake lines and master cyclinder before having it parked.

Has anybody else had this issue? Any thoughts and advice would be grealy appreciated.

[NC_Mule]

Assuming everything worked fine when you parked it. Try 4 low and see if you can muster some more leverage and free a stuck hand brake shoe.

[Wolf323i]

Drive it more!

[I Leak Oil]

Get a jack out and start checking.

[alligatorfoot]

Thank for the ideas. I realize that I deserve what I get for not driving it over the winter (just being mindful of the salt they put on the roads in the Northeast). Any thought on the value of carefully spraying WD-40 around the brake components to loosen things up?

Thanks,

Mark


Assuming everything worked fine when you parked it. Try 4 low and see if you can muster some more leverage and free a stuck hand brake shoe.

[stomper]

I don't think there is any value in the idea of lubing with WD-40 at this point. If it is seized, then you have to figure out where, and adjust and repair accordingly.

[artpeck]

You need to determine if its the linkage binding (which is hard to believe it would be) or the shoes stuck to the drum. In that case luging anything won't accomplish much. I would would second putting the truck in low and seeing if you can pop it free. The alternative is to disassemble.

[disco2hse]

Probably stuck on. Not unusual. Release the handle, check the bottom end (by the drum) that the cable is slack. If so, stick in low reverse or first, ease off the clutch progressively so it kind of jerks. It should come lose with a loud bang.

*Do not* use lubricant on your brakes.

[disco2hse]

Oh by the way. Nothing wrong with not using the vehicle on salty winter roads but in future, leave it in gear and not with the handbrake on, or if the slope is severe, use wheel chocks.

[I Leak Oil]

Release the handle, check the bottom end (by the drum) that the cable is slack.

What's this cable thou speak of....???:p

[busboy]

Something else to consider, if you live where it gets cold and I mean cold like -40C and below without the wind then if you are not using a full synthetic gear oil even if you park in low range and start in the lowest gear the landrover will come to a stop before you can get it into second gear and that feels like the park brake is on still.

[disco2hse]

What's this cable thou speak of....???:p

hehe sorry, the 109V8 has that huh :rolleyes:

[alligatorfoot]

Everyone, thank you for your thoughts and advice. I tried putting the truck in low forward and reverse and got the truck to move back and forward about 5 feet in each direction but no pop, bang, or freeing of the transmission brake. I also marked the four tires with chalk to ensure that it wasn't one of the wheel brakes and all showed equal rotation.

I am having to run out of town for a few days so I left the transmission brake off and maybe with the removal of the tension over the next few days it might help and I will try one more time to free it by putting the truck in low. If no success I will pull out my green book and start to carefully disassemble and investigate.

Lastly, any value in banging on the drum housing to try to free it prior to opening it up? Will keep the board updated with my progress and findings.

Thanks,

Mark



You need to determine if its the linkage binding (which is hard to believe it would be) or the shoes stuck to the drum. In that case luging anything won't accomplish much. I would would second putting the truck in low and seeing if you can pop it free. The alternative is to disassemble.

[SafeAirOne]

Have you jacked up each wheel to see if the road wheels aren't the culprit as Jason suggested? That'd be where I'd start as the chalk line on the wheels mean nothing if there's enough traction to spin the binding wheel in sync for all of 5 feet.

If they all spin freely when jacked, then I'd try backing the transmission brake shoe adjuster all the way off and pushing the actuator rod in manually to allow room for the shoes to fully retract on both ends. If it frees up, I'd probably then try to futz around with the lever working it back and forth till everything loosens back up, then readjust by the book. Otherwise, the drum has got to be pulled.

Fortunately there's enough leakage around my transfer case rear output seal that I'll never have this problem no matter ow much salt water I drive in.

[alligatorfoot]

So, I jacked up each tire separately to see if the wheel brakes were the problem. With the truck in neutral and the transmission brake unlocked, 3 wheels turned with some effort and the 4th with some extra effort. This is the first four-wheel drive I have ever worked on so it is hard for me to know how much resistance I should feel given that the other wheels are still on the ground and the rear drive shaft turns when I would rotate the tire? -- would this also mean that the transmission brake is not stuck?

Also I am not sure if this makes a difference in identifying the problem but here are a few other things I noticed:

-When I tried to drive the car back and forth to get the brake to release I notice that the rear left wheel left a tire/rubber mark (that wheel was one of the three that moved with just a little effort?). Not sure if this might indicate that it was compensating for the other rear tire (which was the one that needed greater force to be able to turn the wheel) or if that wheel is the one that normally has more power (it is a RHD truck).

-brake pedal is hard and barely does down (less than an inch)

-easier to move car in first gear forward than reverse, forward will roll about 3 ft after I stopped gunning which reverse was almost immediately (i.e., more torque in forward than reverse?)

-lastly, about a month before parking new brake lines and a master cylinder was installed? Everything was working fine until parked?

From my limited understanding it seems like I have a wheel brake issue rather than a transmission brake right? and the brake pedal barely moving indicates that there is too much pressure in the lines which is making one of the drum brakes stay on?

Thanks for the help. I don't want to give up and instead want to figure it out rater than having it just be towed to a mechanic to get things fixed.

Best Regards,

Mark


Have you jacked up each wheel to see if the road wheels aren't the culprit as Jason suggested? That'd be where I'd start as the chalk line on the wheels mean nothing if there's enough traction to spin the binding wheel in sync for all of 5 feet.

If they all spin freely when jacked, then I'd try backing the transmission brake shoe adjuster all the way off and pushing the actuator rod in manually to allow room for the shoes to fully retract on both ends. If it frees up, I'd probably then try to futz around with the lever working it back and forth till everything loosens back up, then readjust by the book. Otherwise, the drum has got to be pulled.

Fortunately there's enough leakage around my transfer case rear output seal that I'll never have this problem no matter ow much salt water I drive in.

[busboy]

If the rear drive shaft is rotating by hand then your park brake is not stuck on. My guess is you have either mis-adjusted all your wheel service brakes or most likely your new master cylinder is no good. I would disconnect the brake lines from the master cylinder and see if that frees up the wheels. I always leave my park brake set, some time for months on end during the winter and have never had a problem with it seizing on.

[SafeAirOne]

It sounds as if the length of the rod between the brake pedal and the MC plunger needs to be shortened to allow the valve inside the MC to open and let the hydraulic pressure to be relieved back into the reservoir when the pedal is released. By your description, it sounds as if the system is staying pressurized.

First, properly adjust the brakes on all four wheels and check it. If that doesn't help, turn your to the master cylinder, as described above.

[o2batsea]

Since it is 4WD the ideal thing is to have all 4 wheels off the ground when checking such things. That way you can put it in gear and see if one or more corners are binding. If all is well, then all 4 should be turning. A stuck brake will only allow the other side to spin.
The drums on a Series Rover should be adjusted so that there is some resistance to turning freely. Crank the snail cam until you cannot turn the wheel by hand. Start backing off one nudge at a time until you can just turn the wheel, Stop.
For the trans brake, it is usually not the shoes that get stuck, it is the linkage. The 2A has a lot of parking brake linkage. Look in particular at the bell crank. It has only a bronze bush that rides on a steel shaft. This is a pinch point for sure and you may find it gobbed up. The other place that gets gummy is the actuator thing that is pulled on. There are two wedge things that ride in a bore. This bore gets janky and can keep the shoes from returning. All are no buck fixes that require inspection and some disassembly and lube.

[SafeAirOne]

The concerning factor is that the brake pedal is hard and only moves 1". Either all the shoes are adjusted all the way out and against the drums or the system is staying pressurized. The MC should be displacing more fluid than that if the system is operating properly.

[Les Parker]

Rods on a Series vehicle, just a typo, I'm sure.

[alligatorfoot]

Thanks all for the guidance and advice that should get me back on track over the weekend. As mentioned I just had a new master cylinder and hoses put in/on a month before parking it and the brakes were all adjusted then and the truck ran fine for the next month. Definitely an issue with the pressure, also when I moved the floor mat from under the pedals it had oil/brake fluid caught in the mat???


The concerning factor is that the brake pedal is hard and only moves 1". Either all the shoes are adjusted all the way out and against the drums or the system is staying pressurized. The MC should be displacing more fluid than that if the system is operating properly.

[alligatorfoot]

In the event that someone else has the same issue in the future here is how things ultimately played out. It ended up being that the check value on the master cylinder needed to be adjusted so that the pressure in the lines could be released and bleed off when the brake pedal was released.

The first time I adjusted it too much meaning I had no brakes so I just adjusted it the other way. I will see how things are working tonight after sitting for a day (I might adjust it back a little bit more so that the brakes engage a little earlier when I hit the pedal.

Thank you to everyone for your help, beyond saving a little money, the satisfaction in figuring it out on my own was priceless.

Best Regards,

Mark

[SafeAirOne]

In other words, it was (essentially) a vacuum leak?

Edit---Nevermind...wrong thread. The brake booster wasn't releasing when it was supposed to.